Doctor Archive
Thread: Doctors getting short changed!!! New Doctor Issue!
Snooze821 wrote:
If you have group members dying for mind damage then they are a dumb group. only one out of five people in my group ever get a mind incap and it's usually someone asking solo in a group situation. Plus I keep a few damage stims just in case and can get them off the ground in a jiffy. People that don't believe in tactics or count on 1 or 2 attacks should die as soon as possible and not waste people's time.
People that fight like this is EQ should find thier way back there quickly.
try fighting nightsisters...
lol hmmmm
"oh and one more thing if u get a good grp that stays relatively packed, a doctor can be just as effective as a combat medic in healing damage in a grp....and since u can deal with mind damage via revive....sometimes in PvE ur better off with a doc and not a CM... "
Yes, as slow as I am, I do understand that IF you have a good group that knows what they are doing, and IF everyone in the group do as they are supposed to, then yes doctor is good as combat medic. Heck IF everyone does their job well with Crow Control, taking one at a time, concentrate fire, and everything, then you can probably do very well with master medic or even just couple of novice medic and stimpack B.
And I even understand that SOMETIMES you can be better off with doc and not with CM.
I grasp the concept that given SPECIFIC circumstances, you can always say one class is better than another under that specific circumstances.
Maybe I am not good at getting my point across.
I am asking.
Do you as Combat Medic used Stimpack D and/or stimpack E.
Or know any Combat Medic who used it.
And do you find them (Stimpack D & E) useful? or are you using them to humor us doctors?
Did you know that that is the best we doctors can make?
Did you know that we cannot use ANYTHING Combat Medic can make?
Do you find that fair?
IlyaMasool wrote:
"Do you as Combat Medic used Stimpack D and/or stimpack E.
Or know any Combat Medic who used it.
And do you find them (Stimpack D & E) useful? or are you using them to humor us doctors?
Did you know that that is the best we doctors can make?
Did you know that we cannot use ANYTHING Combat Medic can make?
Do you find that fair?
Yes i do use stim D and Es. I use Ds when i need a sure fire full heal and Es on pets. Dont forget that Ranged E is bugged right now and required 13 identical CDRMs. So consider urself lucky that you can even make a Stim E.
Stim D and Es are very useful. If u have every used a ranged stim, you will know that it makes u stop running. You can stim on the run. Now u may think this is a problem, but have u ever had to heal on the run with ranged stims...u will fall behind or the mob will catch u. I often use stim D to heal myself. Stim Es i use to heal pets....
Yes I realize that its the best stim that doctors can make yet, i dont see why this is a problem. In fact this is a potential source of huge income for you. Only you can make a stim E and having it usuable by master medic, mean that ur market will be vastly larger than if it required novice doctor, so smile and sell Es and be glad that u can sell them unlike the CM who can almost never find a market for thier stims.
Yes we know that you can not use anything we make....you say this like its a bad thing. All u see is that you cant use the good stuff we have. Do you know that a CM cant even craft the best components for any of our packs without training in doc crafting? You dont understand what a burden this can be depending on another class for components...so if u wanna share packs share the components too..i would gladly share my ranged stims from you if u have to buy all and i mean all your components from the CM.
Is this fair? Lol omg if u wanna talk about fair, lets talk about all the bonuses you get from being a doctor. Lets talk about the fact that unlike every other advanced crafting class in the game, only doctors do not have to start over with crafing. In fact 1/2 your profession is directly linked to the medic class. So if you wanna talk about fair lets make it fair to all crafters and make doctors start over with crafting like everyone else.
For that matter lets make u start all your abilities from zero like CMs have to do? Now that would be fair...
here's another thing you forget...Nothing in the doctor or CM line increases the ability to effectively use stim packs. Stim pack is maxed out at master medic level. So if you wanted to be absolutely fair, Stim E should actually belong in the master medic box and not doctor.
and before you start talking fair or not, make sure you class is on the short end of the fair stick before you start to throw out is this fair to doctors? Cuz you might find that your on the side of more fair than other classes and just might have that taken away from you if people really looked at it carefully...
If u need more examples of how "unfair" doctor is, id be more than glad to list more...believe it or not doctor is one of the classes that is working the most in game...
"Yes I realize that its the best stim that doctors can make yet, i dont see why this is a problem. In fact this is a potential source of huge income for you. Only you can make a stim E and having it usuable by master medic, mean that ur market will be vastly larger than if it required novice doctor, so smile and sell Es and be glad that u can sell them unlike the CM who can almost never find a market for thier stims."
I think this is good place to start as any. First, maybe it is just me but I don't count my blessing that I can sell Stimpack E to other players, from rest of the post I think you seem to belive making stimpack is fun and exciting! and I am not sure if you have made stimpacks to sell (I am betting you probably have), but If I were given a choice between making 100 stimpack and sell them, manually or using a factory, or go on a mission with a group, I would choose a mission in a heart beat.
Why would this be?
well like I said I am sure you must have try to make the stimpack-B (about 80% of our "business") which you as CM must have done since it is such lucrative.
Maybe I am doing it all wrong but with 1 factory it takes
~2 hrs for 100 liquid
~2 hrs for 100 chemical
~2 hrs for 100 biological
and finally
~2 hrs for 100 stimpack B
so after 8 hrs, (having to refill the factory 3 times), I have 2 crate of stimpack B, Now how much do you pay for stimpack B?. I am sure you would sell them for zillion credits but I am not making all that much money. DEFINATELY not as much as any of my friend who are doing missions and make in 1 hour five times what I make in 8 hours.
Now, you are saying that this is better than all other craft? (Although we are compairing just CM and Doctors, if you wanna compair doctor as craftsman and wanna compair with every other craftsman then *shrug*)
And as CM you don't get this from mission? (After all as CM you are more likely to go on a mission than Doctors aren't you? and like I said 80% of stimpack sales are on B's which CM can make it too so I don't see where Doctors have it better than CM)
Correct me if I am wrong, but from my experience most of Stimpack sales are Stimpack B, and as CM you sure can make em as well as us doctors, so are money from your stimpack sale much better than what you get from your missions?
And If I could buy Any of CM ranged stimp (not area, just single target ranged stimp), and use them (not as well as CM, but as well as CM use our Doctor Stimp) then would you be happy? If you are then well there you go, you are much less selfish than I am.
=============================
"Yes we know that you can not use anything we make....you say this like its a bad thing. All u see is that you cant use the good stuff we have. Do you know that a CM cant even craft the best components for any of our packs without training in doc crafting? You dont understand what a burden this can be depending on another class for components...so if u wanna share packs share the components too..i would gladly share my ranged stims from you if u have to buy all and i mean all your components from the CM."
I am not getting clear picture from you here. Are you saying that everything CM make, you need to depend on Doctor made components? as in you have to buy ALL your component from Doctor to make your stuff right now? If so, I haven't heard of this. Maybe you wanna explain further exactly which schemetic you are talking about? (No sarcasm, I don't know and I want to know really)
========================================================
"Is this fair? Lol omg if u wanna talk about fair, lets talk about all the bonuses you get from being a doctor. Lets talk about the fact that unlike every other advanced crafting class in the game, only doctors do not have to start over with crafing. In fact 1/2 your profession is directly linked to the medic class. So if you wanna talk about fair lets make it fair to all crafters and make doctors start over with crafting like everyone else.
For that matter lets make u start all your abilities from zero like CMs have to do? Now that would be fair.
here's another thing you forget...Nothing in the doctor or CM line increases the ability to effectively use stim packs. Stim pack is maxed out at master medic level. So if you wanted to be absolutely fair, Stim E should actually belong in the master medic box and not doctor."
And that is EXACTLY the point. You are absolutely right "Nothing in the doctor or CM line increases the ability to effectively use stim packs", As a doctor, we don't get to heal better than master medic, but just make two more stimpack that does. And I see that you DO think that Doctor shouldn't heal any better than Master medic, and since every combat medic is master medic, you DO think that it should be combat medic's job to be out there doing all the large heals, that as Doctors we should just sit in medical center healing wounds. But then only job doctor would have in the field will sit by the camp and wait until someone need rez and heal wound. Then it makes more sense to give Combat medic the rez.
Soo... You are saying that doctor should just sit in medical center healing wounds?
and that would be what you'd call it Fair?
================================================
"and before you start talking fair or not, make sure you class is on the short end of the fair stick before you start to throw out is this fair to doctors? Cuz you might find that your on the side of more fair than other classes and just might have that taken away from you if people really looked at it carefully...
If u need more examples of how "unfair" doctor is, id be more than glad to list more...believe it or not doctor is one of the classes that is working the most in game...
And if you say that is true, them I believe you. Although for some reason I see less and less doctor's around. I also see more and more people going CM and take just enough doctor skill for rez. CM using Stimpack E and rez kit with just 1 line and half of doctor skill.
Am I just imagining this?
Maybe if we look more carefully into doctors we may find that us doctors need nurf, well if we deserve nurf then we should be nurfed, but I for one am very interested in how much of "doctor" skill are used by CM because I personally think more CM use stimpack-E and rez kit than doctors do.
Stim Es arent currently popular because buffs are broken and no one except pets have large enuff HAM...u will start to see much larger HAMs and thus a great need for Stim E when Buffs are fixed...
About making money usingfactories and selling stims...lol i have no problems making money..i sell crates of 50 Bs at 400 a pop and get 20k a crate. Since my factory does all the work, I dont even have to waste time hand crafting...I know a lot of fellow doctors or CMs with master chemist like myself making very nice chucks of money selling packs.
As for CM making as good stims as Doctors this is absolutely false. A novice doctor will make a better stim B then a Master CM, why? because stim B and all stims are linked to the Doc/medic experimentation and CM is separate from this. So are you telling me Pure CM with 5 experiment points can make a stim thats better than a doctor with 10 experiment points. Lets also not forget that this is 5 points on components as well as final products..so the effects of this 5 point difference in experimentation is rather massive...
I dont know if you have played a CM butI dont know why you think CM is better at missions then a doctor. Actually a doctor will be much more effective in combat since the doctor has less requirements than a CM. In fact look at this template, a master doctor and a master CM. the doctor will have 29 more skill point to use since they dont have to get ranged support. A Cm getting pistol specialist spends the same points that a doctor can spend to get all the way up to pistoleer and 1/2 up a tree. so in actually the way the system works, doctors with an advanced weapon skill will be much more effective in combat then a CM. so the missions are actually easier for doctors to do then CM...this is not to mention the buffs...I dont know if you realize it, but a combat class/doctor is just about the best soloer in game....
I dont know if u realize this but all the components that CMs use are in the doctor/medic line and not in the CM line. For ranged stims we share BECs, LS and CRDM., thats not a problem really....but u know that the components for our dots are also in that line? so a CM will only have 5 points ever to work on components with while a doctor will be able to have 10 points to use on components...so if we want the best components, i.e. fully experimented on,available, we have to purchase them from a doctor or get doc crafting.
As for sitting in a med center, you obviously dont realize that you have the most incredible ability in revive that alone is enuff for doctors to leave the med center...even if they didnt have revive, the /cure abilities you have are critical in combat. If u have every fought a disease using mobs say like kimos on Lok, you will know how powerful /cure can be. Furthermore, /cure will become vital for PvP once the damage reduction and Dots fixes go live. Any grp without a doctor that can cure will be at a massive disadvantage.
I dont know about you but i have never heard any other doctor besides you that has said that they feel doctors are basically tied to the med center...if u looked at your abilities like /healstate and /cure you would see this obviously isnt the case..
As for doctor and damage healing...doctors arent the damage healers of the game, im sry to tell you that...doctor is about buffs, wounds cures and revive....as well as making the best stim packs for people to use...CM is the god of damage healing in the game....its why we get ranged and aoe heals that is why they get no other healing abilities outside stims...
As for doctors as a dying class that is an absolute joke...CM is the dying class right now...i have yet to see one post were people say, "Doctors suck, I'm quitting to be a CM." but if you look at the CM boards you will find a number of posts of people dropping or avoid CM for doctor.
I dont know if you spend much time on the CM boards, because if you did, you wouldnt be here thinking that CM were so uber...and thinking that it was unfair. You would know that CM is currently one of the most broken classes in the game.
frankly if anyone should be screaming unfair its the CMs not the doctors...
IlyaMasool....
If you want CM abilities so bad, why don't you just become a CM? It really sounds like you'd rather be one anyway.
CM is a waste of skill points. If you would trade ranged heals for rez you're a nub who will never PVP.
Well thanks for the well reasoned reply, Lot of stuff do make sense, and some of the stuff I flat out didn't know. But I still can't accept that Combat Medic was supposed to be the big healer.
==============================================
"Stim Es arent currently popular because buffs are broken and no one except pets have large enuff HAM...u will start to see much larger HAMs and thus a great need for Stim E when Buffs are fixed...
You mentioned the Doctor buff several times in your post, and although they seems very nice on paper, as you mentioned they are currently not in working order like your ranged-E, but more on this later
==============================================
"About making money using factories and selling stims...lol i have no problems making money..i sell crates of 50 Bs at 400 a pop and get 20k a crate. Since my factory does all the work, I dont even have to waste time hand crafting...I know a lot of fellow doctors or CMs with master chemist like myself making very nice chucks of money selling packs."
Well I guess you have one of those working factories that takes crate. As for me I have to fill them suckers myself three times to get 100 pack. And after selling them at your price, I get 40k, which I guess is nice for 8 hrs of work. But I should count my blessing yes? seems like the prevailing mood here is we should compair ourself to the most broken profession and say "wow! we sure are glad we are not that profession!"
==========================================
"As for CM making as good stims as Doctors this is absolutely false. A novice doctor will make a better stim B then a Master CM, why? because stim B and all stims are linked to the Doc/medic experimentation and CM is separate from this. So are you telling me Pure CM with 5 experiment points can make a stim thats better than a doctor with 10 experiment points. Lets also not forget that this is 5 points on components as well as final products..so the effects of this 5 point difference in experimentation is rather massive...
I dont know if u realize this but all the components that CMs use are in the doctor/medic line and not in the CM line. For ranged stims we share BECs, LS and CRDM., thats not a problem really....but u know that the components for our dots are also in that line? so a CM will only have 5 points ever to work on components with while a doctor will be able to have 10 points to use on components...so if we want the best components, i.e. fully experimented on, available, we have to purchase them from a doctor or get doc crafting."
This is aspect of CM I didn't know about. I'd imagine I would HATE having to depend onanother profession's for my own skill as much as I hate another profession having my skill.
=========================
"I dont know if you have played a CM but I dont know why you think CM is better at missions then a doctor.
Actually a doctor will be much more effective in combat since the doctor has less requirements than a CM. In fact look at this template, a master doctor and a master CM. the doctor will have 29 more skill point to use since they dont have to get ranged support. A Cm getting pistol specialist spends the same points that a doctor can spend to get all the way up to pistoleer and 1/2 up a tree. so in actually the way the system works, doctors with an advanced weapon skill will be much more effective in combat then a CM. so the missions are actually easier for doctors to do then CM...this is not to mention the buffs...I dont know if you realize it, but a combat class/doctor is just about the best soloer in game...."
And this would be true if our buffs are fixed, and even if it is fixed, our buff last (should) about 2 hrs at the highest level, so EVERYONE can just get buffed before leaving the city and enjoy it. If however they change it so that Buff only last as long as they are grouped with the doctor, then yes I can see how doctor would be better soloer, but I don't think this is what you'd want. I want to feel useful but I don't want to shove doctor down anyone's throat neither.
============================================
"As for sitting in a med center, you obviously dont realize that you have the most incredible ability in revive that alone is enuff for doctors to leave the med center...even if they didnt have revive, the /cure abilities you have are critical in combat. If u have every fought a disease using mobs say like kimos on Lok, you will know how powerful /cure can be. Furthermore, /cure will become vital for PvP once the damage reduction and Dots fixes go live. Any grp without a doctor that can cure will be at a massive disadvantage.
I dont know about you but i have never heard any other doctor besides you that has said that they feel doctors are basically tied to the med center...if u looked at your abilities like /healstate and /cure you would see this obviously isnt the case.."
Well it sounds wonderful, except that I have yet to use /cure in the field. I've used first aid, but not cure yet. And I guess we can make all kind of prediction about how changes to PvP will affect any class in the future. I've read my previous post again several times, and I see I been rambling on and on like usual but I don't know where I said CURRENTLY doctors are tied to the medical center.
I've said that IF they change it so that only combat medic does damage healing(by moving stimpacks to master medic as YOU suggested), then only advantage doctors would have over CM would be revive in the field, which many CM already have.
I guess they can always make monsters do much more wound damage than they do now as someone suggested, but I didn't like that idea then, and I still don't like it now.
=============================================================
"As for doctor and damage healing...doctors arent the damage healers of the game, im sry to tell you that...doctor is about buffs, wounds cures and revive....as well as making the best stim packs for people to use...CM is the god of damage healing in the game....its why we get ranged and aoe heals that is why they get no other healing abilities outside stims..."
And this is where I don't agree.
If Developers come here and tell us doctors
"You know what, you doctors aren't supposed to be healing damages.
You should be buffing (which are done in city, unless they make it last 5 min or only as long as doctor is in your group)
Heal wounds (also done mostly in Medical Center since out in field you don't have much damage any novice medic/MC can't handle unless mobs start doing much more wound damage)
Make stimpacks for MC to use(guess you can do this at city or your home)
or revive (which many MC already have and at this point they might as well as move it to MC line completely)"
You would think that most of doctors would say "okay, fine because thats how we see ourselves as."
You'd think most of us would stay around as Doctors?
I always though that doctors were the BIG damage healers of the game, considering they get revive, and one would think you'd use revive in the field, and when I am at field, I'd do more than just stand around waiting for someone to die. I though that CM would run around, shooting and doing emergency heal at range so that really hurt group member could make it back to doctors in the back who would do the big heals to get them back in the game.
But maybe you are right, maybe it was a bug that stimpack ended up in doctor line and we should have been "medical craftsman"
==================================================
"As for doctors as a dying class that is an absolute joke...CM is the dying class right now...i have yet to see one post were people say, "Doctors suck, I'm quitting to be a CM." but if you look at the CM boards you will find a number of posts of people dropping or avoid CM for doctor.
I dont know if you spend much time on the CM boards, because if you did, you wouldnt be here thinking that CM were so uber...and thinking that it was unfair. You would know that CM is currently one of the most broken classes in the game.
frankly if anyone should be screaming unfair its the CMs not the doctors..."
well then I guess I have caught the "Grass is always greener on the otherside" bug. You've gave me lot to think about for sure, especially one with CM's experiment skill points not usable on medic components. Sounds like a bug that should be fixed. I must say you still haven't convinced me that CM are the damage healers and Doctors are support class to CM tho'
"IlyaMasool....
If you want CM abilities so bad, why don't you just become a CM? It really sounds like you'd rather be one anyway."
R3dj4ck, I am not very sure where I've said that I wanted CM ability? My argument was for CM/Medic to not have what I consider is Doctor ability(which CM/Medic already have), and that Doctors not nothing in return, and I consider that not fair.
Then the argument went from there to Doctor should give up revive if we wanted ranged healing.
Let me boil it down to my childish level.
"I said You have something of mine, and I got nothing in return, then you said I can have something in return if I give up MORE stuff"
Hows that?
==================================================
"CM is a waste of skill points. If you would trade ranged heals for rez you're a nub who will never PVP."
And Mortu_Intrepid, yes that was exactly my argument. You've seen it right to the heart of it. Congradulation!
And how did you know that I was the lowest form of life in MMORPG!
the ones who don't PvP!
I must bow to your superior intellegence! And you read so well too!
Ha, you deserve at least two paragraph.
If you seem to think what I want is to trade rez for ranged heal, then I must be much worse at getting my view across than I though.
If the current state of Doctor is everything you want it to be, then great, I am glad you are happy. If I find something that I think is unfair, then well I guess I will whine till I can't whine no more. After all, that is why I am here in this forum, to whine about how I want my doctor to be better. Beside what else am I gonna do while I run from city to my factory, waiting for shuttleor run from mission terminal to my mission point?
By the way, If you are not interested in reading what someone else have to say about doctor, even if it is nothing but whine,why exactly are you here in the forum?
I am playing the game and having fun AND I am whinning at the same time, is that so wrong?
And why is it choice always between
play the game or quit?
Why not
Play the game or have the game change more to your liking?
Do you always settle for what is given to you and never want for more?
There you go! over half dozen for you! and I am almost to my house. (reading your post made me run thru group of red but I forgive you)
Lol...sorry about the reds, but anyways think about your profession, doctor...works outta of hospital, makes house calls, works in a camp during battle. Yes we can group, but ranged stim doesnt fit our profession to be used. I still dont see why you want to take the main thing that seperates combat medic from doc. I think they dont have enough stuff, thats why i didnt become one, and personally if we docs can make stim e for them, i am glad to add something for them. Plus i think 99.9% of docs wouldnt give up res for range stim. Also if you dont want them to be able to use stim E dont make them to sell. Anyways you seem to have a lot of fire in you. Why not help us solve a major issue about the whole mind pool issue. Like why we cant heal it, when a rifleman obiously does damage cause they hit the head. I think you would be good to help argue on bigger issues, this one is too small. Sorry the devs have way to much to even consider this.