Doctor Archive
Thread: any other field docs have this concern after the nerf is active?
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Naliro
Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:17 pm
#1
im wondering.
I have to chars. First Naliro Aligned and Guild on Bloodfin and Zahi Unguild and neutral on Chilastra for diffent game play. Both are Doc first and TKM for my protection. In Both case, i like to go in the field and help peps around giving free heals, power leveling novice medics and docs buying them their droids, crates of stims-b to level, first buff sets or simply free buffing new starting chars to help them out and or buying them decent armors and such.
I like doing this cause i have the money to do it. making it soloying janta's on dant not by buffing. in one buff time, i pille up minimum 600k and keep my account between 1.5 to 2 millions. I know it's not much for most peps but i dont care, i have all the stuff i need up to av21 for both chars... Then I move to help others for the fun of it never asking anything in return. I only ask a minimal when i buff not to screw other docs that buff for a living. My fun come in helping others.
Here comes my concerns about the buff nerf. First i totaly agree with the fact that it's nothing else than a god mode switch with a timer cause they are too powerfull. BUT when they are bring down and armor and other stuff comes in that have the effect of reducing if not stoping the ability to solo janta's... Where am I going to find the financing so I can continue helping others for free???????? I can give up free heals of any kind because I can solo Janta's buffing myself over 2700 and build up my bank account to buy my stuff. But when this is gone, I wont be able to pay for everything like i do now.
For those like me who are doing the field doc in battle with fighters like phase 4 of the village as an example. I simply dont have time to stop and ask to be paid each time i heal and even less time to start to write down the names and the type of heals I give to fighters and ask them to pay me after cause I can't afford to give them for free anymore after the nerf since I lost the solo mission that build my bank account... And you all know that most wont even pay for the service since they take it for granted anyway. In a fight, no one will stop to tip me and i can't force them to do so either.
If i have to do low missions or hunt just to finance the cost of my meds and give them for free cause their is nothing in the game that permit me to manage some sort of facturation for the service.. why should I spend for everyone else??????????? Do armorsmith work for free? Do weaponsmith work for free? Do shipbuilder work for free??? None of them do and they all use vendors that you can't abuse. Do other profession share their money like this to the community like docs do? None, except us docs, are sharing their personnal money for others... Entertainers have no expenses healing others, Crafters use vendors to force selling with profit but we are intirely base on the good will of others and most of the time we pay for it and the good will of players is very very discutable.
Unless Devs add a feature for the docs that would permit to offer some kind of medical inssurance for a predefine fee for1 or 2 hour hunt, I dont see how we will be able to heal for free like we do now after the nerf... I know the idealistic ones will say that we should not ask for credits blablabla... but when i buy or craft them.. this idealistic concept dont come into play and I pay each time no matter what... Their is no such thing for me that makes that sometimes when i buy a wound pack it's costing me nothing..
Let me explain what i think could work... A doc inssurance/contract. A feature that would permit us to define a base price for our time joining the group and a unit price for all types of heals for the duration of the time were in the group supporting fighters. And when we group with hunters-fighters to be their healer, each group member can accept or not the proposed fee for a hunt. if they accept we can heal them and get paid each time for what we do... If they refuse the insurance we still have the choice to heal them for free (for the idealistic ones that dont care being broke whyle combats are multi-multi-millionairs scrooge) or not to do it. This acceptance for the medical inssurance would show up in the group putting the names of the players in a different color. It's like a contract for the duration of the hunt or fight whyle your in the group. If you agree with the insurance, when I heal you I automaticly exctract from the bank accout of the player the amout set for the type of heal that was pre accepted by the player at the bigining for a specific time duration. If i dont need to heal you, i dont get paid except of the basic pre-define fee. of course, if you stim for 2 damage heal it would not count to prevent abuse. damage would need to be at least below 60% so it counts so spamming stims would not work.
This feature would resolve one big income issue about docs... The one that only buffing is paying something unless you do like any other combat profs and do missions. This feature would help docs have a minimal income base on the service they provide in a fair way for everyone. In game, it would be like a temporary contract. You want me to join your group to provide medical support? Fine I will but lets do a minimal contract so you dont abuse of my service making your kills and harvest whyle i heal you and get nothing but expenses doing it. The market would be adjust by the quality of field doc service you do... if youre base price is to high and do a bad job, combat groups wont hire you for long.. On the other hand, the best field doc you are the most groups will want you in and the more you can ask for your base price. Of course this idea is not intended for the buff bots but for field docs that are not making money out of crafting and selling or doing buff sessions.
Like all other docs, i'm not a magician healing in a way that it cost me nothing. We are in star wars not in dungeon in dragons... Free magic heals dont exist for me.. I pay each time i heal... For none docs reading this... Think of it this way... Each time a doc is healing you that same doc is in fact tiping you and you have the benefit. Now, would you as a fighter, walk around randomly targeting players and tip them credits all the time exctract directly of your grinding doing mission? If not, why would you expect us docs to do it then?... is this fair?
As a doc, nothing is free in this world for me but still, i'm expected to work for free... Want to talk about unbalance stuff???.. this is a big one. If you dont have us docs to steroids you for your battles, your dead... and when the nerf come... your more than dead if no solution is provide to make this profesion viable for field docs joining your group to cover your a-s...
It's not that i dont want to heal you fighters in combat. But when i do that, i'm not doing mission for my own selfish bank acount. I dont hunt for my ressources to craft. Youre only expenses for me doing it the way this game work at the moment. For now I can still afford it and i'm doing it.. but soon, I wont be able to burn my credits for youlike many other fielddocs in this game. And this also applies to Master Medics and Combat Medics. Were all in the same boat regarding this.
I propose a possible feature that could prevent the disparition of field docs. It's certainly not perfect but it's a start.
Dr. Naliro Bime (Bloodfin)
Dr. Zahi Ager (Chilastra)
Message Edited by Naliro on 11-10-2004 10:25 PM
Message Edited by Naliro on 11-10-2004 10:28 PM
DarthVillanus
Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:35 pm
#2
The buff nerf is a nerf to the players, not the docs. Players will still seek out buffs no matter how low they become.
| Kalon Wiekog - Dark Jedi Knight |
gaarawarr
Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:36 am
#3
DarthVillanus wrote:
The buff nerf is a nerf to the players, not the docs. Players will still seek out buffs no matter how low they become.
that wasn't his concern. the buffs will be weaker and as a result he won't be able to make as much money running mokk/janta missions and won't be able to help new players like he does now.i know it's a long post but it's worth reading.
Naliro
Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:13 am
#4
you just missed the all point DarthVillanus... who said that... He was pointing at a direction and they were looking at the tip of his finger...
I'm a field doc and not a buffing dispenser in starports.. meaning I group with hunters to provide medical support in combat... when doing this.. I SPEND credits each time I hit a Fkey to use a wound pack or else...i'm not making credits with this.
The only way for me to make credits is...
1- becoming a buffing machine siting for hours watching the same shuttle landing and leaving over and over buffing peps
2- buff myself and do missions like any other combat profession.
If option 1 is all the doc profession is for some.. fine.. it's not for me. Not all docs like to be reduce as buffing dispensers. Option 2, well if this is the only way for me to make credtis... why not drop the doc and just pick a buff from a dispenser and do like other combat peps...
As for now, only the fact that i can do 32k missions give me the credits i need to buy crates of meds and spend them healing peps in field combat... How this translate in numbers?
I baugh a crate of stun heal for 60k, same for blind, same for dizzy. thats 180k just there. 90k for a crate of stims, 30k for a crate of rez and now i'm ready to join a group of fighters to heal them in combat. It's 300k just to have the necessary to do the job. Wow.. all fighters in the group are happy cause I keep them alive whyle they work phase 4 agains sith.. They dont spend any credits doing it and are hell of happy when I show up there cause they know il save their but more than one time. At the end... It cost me 300k and it's total lost for me and gained nothing. During that same amount of time, i could have done minimal 600k profit in mission instead of loosing 300k... Why is that playing the docs is equal to loosing money???????
Do you math a bit to see how costly playing a field doc is and think further than the tip of your nose. When the nerf is there... I will most likely loose my first income to continue healing others in combat. Not only me but all field docs will. If no one think in long term about the consequence of this... we have a big problem coming on the road. Buff nerf will tend to bring back medics and docs in groups for heals.. but none of them will have the revenues to give those medic services for free anymore. Will the doc crafters will let their meds go for free so field docs can heal for free? If so, does the hunters will hunt meat for free too so the crafters can craft for free?... This is going way deaper than the simplistic reasonning that even nerfed.. peps will still buy buff as if the doc profession was only about buffing...
Message Edited by Naliro on 11-11-2004 03:14 AM
Message Edited by Naliro on 11-11-2004 03:41 AM
hamhamthe3rd
Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:44 am
#5
i am not concerned about the buffs or anything. what i am concerned about is if im going to be placed at the mercy of others. that is something i am not for. i do not want to be FORCED to level with others nor do i want to beforced into groups for 90% of the content. they can lower buffs, change the current combat system if it makes **them** happy, after all, we are just the ones playing the game(sarcastic). however do not force ppl into play styles they do not enjoy.
there are many ways to play this game and we all play it our way. we move at our own pace, we all take something different out of the gameplay. some of us like to be in groups and chat with others and what have you. others like to go adventuring alone. that is not to say they want to do ALL of their adventuring alone. it is just that most times they cannot find suitable players to group with or that its more convenient for the person to go alone at the time. even so, that person may not actually go alone - bringing a pet or droid. again we all move at our own pace. if buffs, armors and such were changed in a way that it affected soloing greatly then that would slow down leveling. some see this as a positive thing. i see this as even more repetitive gaming and reliance on others. i have played games like that. games that made it so that the **only** way you could level effectively was in a large group. it got old fast, especially if you couldnt find a big enough group. if all the creatures worth killing took a group to kill then the game will suffer a lot of loses in the way of players leaving it. if ppl could not solo to lvl, again many would leave the game. no one wants to be stuck at rifles 4 for months at a time. the gameplay is repetitive enough and i hope we avoid making it more so.
ahh, but hopefully this is all a moot point. i hear the way they will get rid of soloing is tochange the payoffs. solo grouping will divide the pay among the group whether they are there or not but any persons not near the kill will not actually receive credits. for example, you have a 30k mission in a group of 6. you destroy the lair, you will not receive 30k but will receive 5k. anyone else near gets their 5k but those that arent near, their credits get lost in time.
i hope this system is trueas it doesnt really affect lvling at all. ppl will hopefully still be able to solo but wont get ridiculously rich off of it.
Brainplay
Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:00 am
#6
Naliro wrote:
I'm a field doc and not a buffing dispenser in starports.. meaning I group with hunters to provide medical support in combat... when doing this.. I SPEND credits each time I hit a Fkey to use a wound pack or else...i'm not making credits with this. Thats your choice to do so. If you want to share your cash feel free to but don't complain about it. Unless its really high level content are you really even needed? Jeez, I soloed through swordsman in marabi armor and novice medic for heavens sake.
The only way for me to make credits is...
1- becoming a buffing machine siting for hours watching the same shuttle landing and leaving over and over buffing peps
2- buff myself and do missions like any other combat profession. Ok I'm finding it hard to understand you here. There are two valid options to earn cash listed by you which is 1 more than more than most other professions have available to them. One of them is the way every non-public buffing type of doctor has to rely on. I hunt Janta in solo groups right now, when its changed I'm going to hunt Janta with a small group and I doubt a Janta mission will be more than a speed bump.
If option 1 is all the doc profession is for some.. fine.. it's not for me. Not all docs like to be reduce as buffing dispensers. Option 2, well if this is the only way for me to make credtis... why not drop the doc and just pick a buff from a dispenser and do like other combat peps... You said it. But why did you pick up doctor in the first place? We all have our motivations and if cash is your honeypot so be it. However I get the feeling you'll want to keep some medic skill when the revamp hits.
As for now, only the fact that i can do 32k missions give me the credits i need to buy crates of meds and spend them healing peps in field combat... How this translate in numbers? Wait....are you a doctor? You're buying crates of meds.....from another doctor? So you must be a new doctor if you haven't started collecting your resources. Actually thats not even an excuse these days. You can pick up 100k lots of resources off of the trade forums. Maybe you picked the wrong profession.... Yeah no more 32k Janta/mokk missions. Guess those 22k voritor and huurton missions are waaaay too little cash to even consider.
I baugh a crate of stun heal for 60k, same for blind, same for dizzy. thats 180k just there. 90k for a crate of stims, 30k for a crate of rez and now i'm ready to join a group of fighters to heal them in combat. It's 300k just to have the necessary to do the job. Wow.. all fighters in the group are happy cause I keep them alive whyle they work phase 4 agains sith.. They dont spend any credits doing it and are hell of happy when I show up there cause they know il save their but more than one time. At the end... It cost me 300k and it's total lost for me and gained nothing. During that same amount of time, i could have done minimal 600k profit in mission instead of loosing 300k... Why is that playing the docs is equal to loosing money??????? You actually paid for state cure packs?..omg..I wont even go there. I still make mine using corn and steel for resources and subcomponents. Yeah you gained nothing from helping some people out. Did you even ask them for some compensation? Did you bother telling them at the beginning "Hey, anyone want to donate to help with the expense of the stims I'm going to use on you all?" Once again, it was your choice to do this and while its a noble idea it was also a costly one (which noble ideas tend to be). You didn't make any cash or get reimbursed because you never asked for it. I'll put money down that says they would have been more than happy to donate if you asked them first.
Do your math a bit to see how costly playing a field doc is and think further than the tip of your nose. When the nerf is there... I will most likely loose my first income to continue healing others in combat. Not only me but all field docs will. If no one think in long term about the consequence of this... we have a big problem coming on the road. Buff nerf will tend to bring back medics and docs in groups for heals.. but none of them will have the revenues to give those medic services for free anymore. Will the doc crafters will let their meds go for free so field docs can heal for free? If so, does the hunters will hunt meat for free too so the crafters can craft for free?... This is going way deaper than the simplistic reasonning that even nerfed.. peps will still buy buff as if the doc profession was only about buffing... You're thinking too much with a solo mindset. The economy will drop at first as the noobs deal with *gasp* having to group with others to make cash. 3 people tear through missions with relative ease and if they get 2 missions each they all get the same amount of cash as if they did it solo. The difference will be in travel time which means instead of 1million credits per buff session they'll be making 500-750k. Wow, guilds will actually have more of a reason for existance. Making trusted friends in the game will actually be helpful. /sarcasm We can't have that now can we? And lets not forget about our herbie and avian meat. Well there's no such thing as 30k avian missions so that will still be the same. Herbivore meat will probably drop in price as more and more soloist will have to hunt those creatures for cash.
Oh and if healing suddenly becomes important again....be prepared to watch the stimB and stimC market skyrocket. And of course CM's and medics will be buying subcomponents by the crate from you....well maybe not you since you're not the crafting type.
This revamp will do more good for all medical professions than most people realize.
Marzuk147
Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:24 am
#7
It has always cost money to help other people, which is why I dont do it. Some people see doctors as someone who is supposed to sacrifice our playtime and experiance for their benifit, and they are not gratefull of it on top of it all.
Doctors are a broken profession IMO, all we are in the eyes of the public, are buff whores. Nothing else makes us money, and to do any other part of our profession, we must spend it.
Medics are THE ONLY novice class without mission terminals as well. There are entertainer, artisan, destroy mission, explore mission, bounty hunter missions.. but where are the medic mission terminals? We NEED a system implemented form of payment, because people sure as hell are not going to pay us.
Doctors are a broken profession IMO, all we are in the eyes of the public, are buff whores. Nothing else makes us money, and to do any other part of our profession, we must spend it.
Medics are THE ONLY novice class without mission terminals as well. There are entertainer, artisan, destroy mission, explore mission, bounty hunter missions.. but where are the medic mission terminals? We NEED a system implemented form of payment, because people sure as hell are not going to pay us.
Naliro
Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:30 am
#8
brainplay, dont try playing it "smart" here... collecting ressource... buying from other blabla... and other such falls blablapride. Yes I do buy from those who put all their time crafting quality stuff. And when another doc is looking for a good suplier I refer to my supliers so briging in new customers to the crafters. I prefer encouragingdocs who are already set to it than re-inventing the wheel. And whyle you collect your 100k whatever ressources, your not healing the wounded. Whyle your crafting manually or with a plant, your not healing the wounded. Whyle your soloing what ever big mobs out there your not healing the wounded. Beleive it or not, their is not only buffers and crafters. They are some who are there for what docs are expected that is to heal others when they are down hoping to be rez or see their desease wear of. Do you have any idea how many time when i'm just riding in the field looking for solo fightersI find one desease to the bones and black bars all over him. I make a detour to reach him to heal. This is a full time "job" if you didn't get it by now. You asked why i'm a doc? you should have been bright enough to get it... I'm in the action when it counts to save the lives of those in needed. Put away the blabla ubber in solo this and that blablahow good you are at juging other docs. I dont care how good youare or think you are or any other super gods players that pick all by themself that obsiously dont needmedic help in the field. I only care about those who are wounded and need help, those who are not ubber blabla and die trying to level. Those who can't afford the super blabla armor and power ups and die. In plain basic, i'm a simple doc not asuper rich craftingand selling trying to be the richiest. I've been a doc long enough to knowthat it's the richiest that are blindbecause they dont need others.I dont put my money to buildup my industry in pharmacology but to help other when they need medical attentionand your trying to tell me what a doc is? 
come on be serious.
come on be serious.I can put all my time only healing others and still wont be able to be everywhere for all. I dont have time to harvest nor to craft and my suppliers who put their time to craft are very happy about it to have customer that can use what they are selling... This is logic 101 here. I help doc crafters by buying what they craft and they help me save this time so I'm out there in the hot spot to make use of the stuff they are crafting. If no docs are there in the field to buy anduse those 360 wound pack out of the factory what good will it be for docs crafters to invest so much time and effort to craft then? another thing that you missed it seems so.
I never said that I never receive anything whyle helping others, what i'm trying to say is that we need some sort of in game solution or feature that garanty a minimum revenue commonand knowed to everyonebase on the work FIELD docs are doing. I'm not talking about doc who craft they use vendor as a method for this. If you dont accept the vendor proposition you move along. Samething goes for buffers, if you dont accept he dont hit the FKey and you move along. Every professions that sell to others has a clear and controled method to manage income. Field docs are in a begging state always depending on others good will... Please help me out blablabla so i can help you out blabla... Dont you think I'm not aware of that? And dont you also think i dont know that in group those who tip me for the service are most of the time not the richiest in that same group? And how many time i've seen someone leave the group just when it's convinient and dissapeare without the smallest "thank you"... Those who actually value field docs presence are most of the time mature players and in the global picture asking "begging"for a fee or notonly exception are giving you back something for your services. That, you should know if your there for soooooo looonnnnnnngggg.
Doc inssurance idea offer a clear method to establish a clear base service fee to everyone that still can accept or not. I'm not aiming to beat the game in the money point ofview blablaing i made blabla money selling buff.... or blabla money crafting them.. or my pack heal for blabla. I just propose a possible way so those who are field docs can cover their expenses not making profit in the order of tens of millions just not to be bankrupt healing others full time. Just wait and see when docs will be needed again in group hunts and you can't sell meds at the price they are now or do 600k doing janta's... Then you will probaly get it... I'm just thinking hehead of time and see this coming big time. Now what do you propose to deal with this situation when it show up? This is what i'm interested to know... Do you have a solution to propose other than begging for tips and still depends of all the meaby's that this suggest?
Message Edited by Naliro on 11-11-2004 10:38 AM
Message Edited by Naliro on 11-11-2004 10:42 AM
Message Edited by Naliro on 11-11-2004 10:43 AM
pastorious
Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:30 pm
#9
Naliro wrote:
I'm really not trying to be a smart ass here, but is English your second language?
Naliro
Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:37 pm
#10
yes pastorious, english is my second. So please forgive any lapidation and errors I'm doing to it. I can also miss interpret some intervention or language subtilities in english.
TheRockStar
Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:46 pm
#11
Simple answer, I just sell medical stuff. Surely you do the same?
Bisola
Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:16 am
#12
DarthVillanus wrote:The buff nerf is a nerf to the players, not the docs. Players will still seek out buffs no matter how low they become.
Exactly
Bisola
Naliro
Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:30 am
#13
For the RockStar and bivola types that didn't get it yet.
Docs sub-profession 101
1- The doc crafters. He use all it's time and invest a fortune seting up harvesters, factories. hire sub-contractorsto craft and sell and dont have much time left for anything else. I'm talking of the top ones not the casual ones that sells cheap quality supplies.
2- The doc Buffer. He craft and mostly buy from the type 1 and sit for hours in starports buffing players until he need to restock. Rince and repeat until sick or quit the game.
3- The field doc. He is always in the middle ofa fight providing medical support tocombat class. May also craft in emergency situation provide he still have room for ressources in inventory or buy quality stuff from type one.
for both of you guys, what i'm talking about is to complicated reading your answers... Rockstar you speak like Type 1 and only see that perspective (crafting and selling) and this take time thatfield docs dont have if they want to be were they are suppose to be. Whyle Bivola speak like type 2 and only see that perspective also (buff and forget, if you clone i charge you again hahaha). None of you understood a single word of what i'm saying. It's your bad really.
And this ignorance if not denigration of type 3 docs of the rest of the communityis a clear symptoms how bad too powerfull buff created a god mode switch removing medics and field docs of peoples minds and understanding... But you can be sure that very soon you will wake up... If your a crafter with a vendor, who the hell do you think can buy and use your crates of stim's E if not field doc??? Are you so ignorant about who are your customers?As for me, damm i know that my supliers are also master docs that are working hard to produce for my need. I know my suppliersdo you know your customer and understand their needs? And why do you think that same field doc is looking for the best doc crafters on a server to buy the most potent material??? Well il tell you one thing. When in the field with combat class, I need one shot heals, no way i will waste my time crafting low stims or wound pack nor i will use low quality crafters material. I need the best out there and only full time dedicated type-1 can provide me the quality i need when i have 20 peps to keep alive. YES, your super buff dont always do the job especially when they start to drop in the middle of a fight. But again... you have toleave starports or have time if your acrafterand go out there to see it.
From the 3 types of docs, only 2 have an regular, mesurable andsteadyincome base on their professionand some even beleive that crafters and buffers are all their is. I can understand that cause many took doctor just to be a buffer not knowing anything else of their job and it's fineif it's fits you. Well just wait when the armor revampand buff nerf is live... If you think it wont affect you your wrong.type-2 will have to reveiw their price cause players wont be able to grind credits like they use to. Only those that have pillup will for a time and all those that couldn't solo janta's wont have the money for it since they already dont have it at the present time. But still they will need the buffs, no questions about this and that was never my point if or if not buff would still be needed. But your buff wont be a god mode switch anymore and combat class will drain combine with armor nerf. Medics and Field docs will be even more needed than now and some may say.. Ho! didn't knew that they exist... Type-1 will have to review their operations for cost and sub-contracters fee and selling pricecause their customers, that are field docs, wont have the only revenue they had before (grinding janta's)to buy their top quality products. And this you should think about more than just superficials.
End of solo groups wont affect you... let me laugh. I'm talking of software design repercussions that are not adress by the devs to gamers that are even not aware of all the flavors of their own profession.. this was my error bringing this discussion in the first place. Where did I get the idea that peoples could see further than tip of their nose.
Message Edited by Naliro on 11-13-2004 05:38 AM
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