Doctor Archive
Thread: Crafting, Magic, and Skill Progression
Anyway, I can't help but see all of these recent (and soon-to-be) changes as pandering to the "I want it now" people, and diametrically opposed to what I take MMORPGs to be about. I'm not angry or disappointed because my financial viability in-game is threatened (because it isn't), or because I'll have to take up BE to craft what few meds remain; rather, I'm quite distraught that character advancement is being rendered largely moot in favor of encouraging short-term "fun".
Although I do not play a crafter nor have I spent time being a "crafting doctor"... I found that the "old" system (albeit slightly flawed with such high buff numbers), to be fun and very rewarding. It took time and patience to finally get the right resources and experimentation to create the best of the best.. and even after that there is still a chance that something better will come along.
As it stands with the combat upgrade there will be none of that. We will all become nothing more than lvl 50 clerics that can all heal the same, enhance the same and it will lead to the same disillusionment and pure boredome that healers in other games have felt.
They are making the game very generic and unenjoyable in many aspects. I will say there are some things that I do like. Favorite is the varying of the templates, but I just think they are taking too drastic of steps to "fix" too many things that weren't broken. If it ain't broke, don't fix it stupid.
ALSO, to respond to the post above mine. I doubt highly that will be the case. I've played a cleric and a druid healer type in other games and it becomes extremely monotonous. I don't want to play a cleric in SWG, I want to be a doctor... and part of being a doctor is researching new medicines and improving on what you have. Saying everyone is going to be able to heal for this amount or buff for this amount at this level is very dumbed down, non immersive and well, boring.
Message Edited by EsclavoTKM on 04-01-2005 03:45 PM
Tarquinas Galaxy ~ Teras Kasi Master/Master Doctor ~
EsclavoTKM wrote:
Very well said
Although I do not play a crafter nor have I spent time being a "crafting doctor"... I found that the "old" system (albeit slightly flawed with such high buff numbers), to be fun and very rewarding. It took time and patience to finally get the right resources and experimentation to create the best of the best.. and even after that there is still a chance that something better will come along.
As it stands with the combat upgrade there will be none of that. We will all become nothing more than lvl 50 clerics that can all heal the same, enhance the same and it will lead to the same disillusionment and pure boredome that healers in other games have felt.
They are making the game very generic and unenjoyable in many aspects. I will say there are some things that I do like. Favorite is the varying of the templates, but I just think they are taking too drastic of steps to "fix" too many things that weren't broken. If it ain't broke, don't fix it stupid.
ALSO, to respond to the post above mine. I doubt highly that will be the case. I've played a cleric and a druid healer type in other games and it becomes extremely monotonous. I don't want to play a cleric in SWG, I want to be a doctor... and part of being a doctor is researching new medicines and improving on what you have. Saying everyone is going to be able to heal for this amount or buff for this amount at this level is very dumbed down, non immersive and well, boring.Message Edited by EsclavoTKM on 04-01-2005 03:45 PM
I played healers in other games as well, so I know what it's like.
I've been one of the larger crafting doctors on my server since November of '03 when I opened my buff shop. I know the minute details in crafting, and have made some of the most effective stims/area cures/resist buffs on my server. I like the crafting a lot, trust me.
I don't think that a standard rate is dumbed down at all. I don't understand why everyone claims that the new system is "too dumbed down" - our current system involved jedi spamming /dervish2, etc. etc. etc. Tactics, skill, knowledge of your own skills will be important now.
And there *will* be items that will make some doctors better then others. It's tough to say how much of an effect the enhancers will have, but there is still the opportunity to pick up the BE crafting line and do your own crafting still. No medic-related items are in the master BE box, and you will still get your 10 points for experimentation.
The knowledge that comes from 2 years of experience, vs. that of a new master, will be evident. I find it odd how people write off the player at the keyboard so quickly, and focus only on the crafted items.
Sure, skill and all that could shine through, but is that really going to matter? When I was on EQ today, I saw at least 10 clerics sitting in PoK shouting LFG. Is that the future of SWG? Maybe it won't be so bad, but I just keep getting images of EQ, EQ2, WoW etc in my head and I know for a fact that a lot of my friends and family will leave if it becomes that.
SantosL wrote:
And there *will* be items that will make some doctors better then others. It's tough to say how much of an effect the enhancers will have, but there is still the opportunity to pick up the BE crafting line and do your own crafting still. No medic-related items are in the master BE box, and you will still get your 10 points for experimentation.
It's not hard to say if the "10% to 30%" improvement for enhancers is correct. Here's the deal - if you are good at crafting under the current system, your stuff will be 5% to 10% better then a more casual crafter. Typically, you have the 980/980 resources, while they are working with 930/930. Or they are fooled into thinking the 998/500 resources are better, just because the OQ is so gaudy. Regardless, you aremaking 470 power stim-Bs, while they are stuckmaking 445 power Stim-Bs.
Under the new system, you will still presumably have that 5% to 10% edge on crafted enhancers. So you will be making 29% enhancers while they are making 27% enhancers. But the actual effect of this difference when someone actually heals, is 129% versus 127%, less than a 2% difference.
So yeah, we can still pick up BE and craft for a relatively modest skill point investment. But the crafting has not only moved, it's also been made far less important and therefore a far less interesting mini-game to me.
Happymob wrote:
SantosL wrote:
And there *will* be items that will make some doctors better then others. It's tough to say how much of an effect the enhancers will have, but there is still the opportunity to pick up the BE crafting line and do your own crafting still. No medic-related items are in the master BE box, and you will still get your 10 points for experimentation.It's not hard to say if the "10% to 30%" improvement for enhancers is correct. Here's the deal - if you are good at crafting under the current system, your stuff will be 5% to 10% better then a more casual crafter. Typically, you have the 980/980 resources, while they are working with 930/930. Or they are fooled into thinking the 998/500 resources are better, just because the OQ is so gaudy. Regardless, you are making 470 power stim-Bs, while they are stuck making 445 power Stim-Bs.
Under the new system, you will still presumably have that 5% to 10% edge on crafted enhancers. So you will be making 29% enhancers while they are making 27% enhancers. But the actual effect of this difference when someone actually heals, is 129% versus 127%, less than a 2% difference.
So yeah, we can still pick up BE and craft for a relatively modest skill point investment. But the crafting has not only moved, it's also been made far less important and therefore a far less interesting mini-game to me.
Let's be perfectly honest.
This is not a huge difference from what we see now. What's the difference between crafter A with his 938 power buff packs, and crafter B with 944 power buff packs. A difference of 6 points. Convert that into an actual buff, and you're looking at roughly a ONE TO TWO PERCENT difference.
Crafter A makes a Stim E with 1250 power. Crafter B makes a Stim E with 1190 power. Both do will do a full heal to their target.
As it stands right now, the Doctor crafting has a difference at most of 5% in stats. That difference will be the same in the new system as well.
People are freaking out about this, and in truth, the statistical range of products created will be the same as before.
Happymob wrote:
SantosL wrote:
And there *will* be items that will make some doctors better then others. It's tough to say how much of an effect the enhancers will have, but there is still the opportunity to pick up the BE crafting line and do your own crafting still. No medic-related items are in the master BE box, and you will still get your 10 points for experimentation.
It's not hard to say if the "10% to 30%" improvement for enhancers is correct. Here's the deal - if you are good at crafting under the current system, your stuff will be 5% to 10% better then a more casual crafter. Typically, you have the 980/980 resources, while they are working with 930/930. Or they are fooled into thinking the 998/500 resources are better, just because the OQ is so gaudy. Regardless, you aremaking 470 power stim-Bs, while they are stuckmaking 445 power Stim-Bs.
Under the new system, you will still presumably have that 5% to 10% edge on crafted enhancers. So you will be making 29% enhancers while they are making 27% enhancers. But the actual effect of this difference when someone actually heals, is 129% versus 127%, less than a 2% difference.
So yeah, we can still pick up BE and craft for a relatively modest skill point investment. But the crafting has not only moved, it's also been made far less important and therefore a far less interesting mini-game to me.
Problem here is resource kits, with 70% less to craft, resource kits can make anyone an instant pro if they figure out what they are doing.
Nice post Ledao, I think we just got shafted for being to usefull, I think the game has to much crap going on in it to be very stable so they are eliminating whatever they can wherever they can, trying to turn cnet into something other than a buffbot stop or spam city, they are forcing us to group which makes me mad to no end, I agree that being a player for nearly 2yrs shows no bearing what so ever in game play and is very stupid...................
I have said it before and I will say it again, the Dev's should try and actually play the game some time, they might actually get a clue?
My personal fix for the game would have been to eliminate secondary buffs, give us hit points, just dont let them regenerate as fast as we get hit, put a bigger delay between heals, they went to far on the doc changes.