Doctor Archive
Thread: Views on Docs with Area heals vs CM... etc etc flame me
Page 1 of 7
MasterTek1
Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:59 am
#1
My view on the whole things has always been take out CM and make the doc capable of all and let the player decide how he or she specializes in thier gameplay or tactics.
But if I were to agree with you on giving the CM many of a doc's current abilties but leave the crafting up to the doc on those abilities. I'd also have to say the doc should craft everything that the CM crafts now too. Making CMs completely dependant on a doctors goods and services or making a really good CM also a Doctor hindering thier full FOTM combat templating (excluding alt's obviously).
I think if I were to be put on development of the issue though in looking to satisfy both parties needs , urges, and desires. I'd probably try to intergrate the gameplay of these two proffessions. Making the two rely on each other for some serious gameplay. In other words if a CM wants to throw a poison C a doc needs to be grouped and nearby and if a doc wants to heal fire then a CM needs to be grouped and nearby. Granted this is probably not an easy task to do but it would make for a very interesting relationship and battlefield tactics. I believe other professions could benefit from programming in these relationships as well... ie a rifleman can only use headshot 3 with a master ranger or scout grouped and nearby... I sorta think entertainer buffs should rely on a dancer being grouped with a musician and vice versa perhaps hindering the buff botting a bit (not really)... maybe I should stop before I get my hopes and dreams of an uber game back in my head.
I'm not saying cut out everyones complete abilities to rely on other players or chars... I'm saying hinder thier high end spamtastic abilities. Perhaps flawed yet I think its reasonable.
Tek
apocc
Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:03 am
#2
**edit**...CM's can already throw poison or disease with 1.6k damage per tick...probably even higher than that, but the highest i've seen was 1.6k....and now you want doctors to not be able to heal them? so, once they nerf buffs...whats our use gonna be? doctors are to heal and cure poisons and diseases..thats what they do. you must be an imperial, because on my server they never travel overt without a CM with them
Gnuut
Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:32 am
#3
What you all don'tunderstand is CMs are not asking to be damage dealers or devastating in PVP.
We want our profession to be worth 169 points that we spend to master it.
Area Heals? Doesn't cut it.
Ranged Heals? Doesn't cut it.
Mind Heals? Doesn't cut it.
Poison and disease in it's current form? You guessed it. Doesn't cut it.
Karax
Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:11 am
#4
Hmm, also i can understand the thinking of the first poster, it would throw the doc proffesion a way back into buff bot... because without healing states there are only three things left, a doc could do (with your intention of the crafting line)
- Buffing
- healing damage/wounds
- Crafting
I dont know, but i dont want to a)buff and b)heal wounds and c)craft things for a) and b) only...
sure it is quite funny to buff public, to talk to all these guys
sure it is also sometimes cool to help players in hospitals or with you med droid in the field healing their wounds
and i have also fun when i am crafting something...
but without our ability to heal states/poison/disease we would be effectiveless in PvP (only sitting in a safe place and buffing/ woundhealing players who died in pvp...)
also in hunting groups we wouldn`t be needed...( i know that docs also are not needed in a hunting group before the last mini-publishs (i havent played a week now, because of exams))
so only sitting in a corner and doing the same tings over and over, while others have fun in groups...
i dont want the docs to be the best combat healer (i hate it to run to every player who has some damage), i dont know in which way the new buffs and area cures will affect the game (i say: Lets play it a while and then we can complain...), so everything is my opinion and my sight on the current state of the game...
so have fun...
Karax Cordasaar
Songe
Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:04 am
#5
apocc wrote:
**edit**...CM's can already throw poison or disease with 1.6k damage per tick...probably even higher than that, but the highest i've seen was 1.6k....and now you want doctors to not be able to heal them? so, once they nerf buffs...whats our use gonna be? doctors are to heal and cure poisons and diseases..thats what they do. you must be an imperial, because on my server they never travel overt without a CM with them
That's pure BS. You've ever been a CM? The venoms that make this kind of poison are very rare. Most CMs don't have them, and it's BS that people like you keep misinforming everyone.
Degasai
Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:10 am
#6
MasterTek1 wrote:
My view on the whole things has always been take out CM and make the doc capable of all and let the player decide how he or she specializes in thier gameplay or tactics.
Tek
Word up....
dasri
Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:14 am
#7
Sorry Dyvim, I have to strongly disagree with you. I think your vision of Doctors "sitting in the med centers" and "tending to battlestricken patients, and enhancing fighter's pre-fights" is exatly the vision of what people have of us Doctors now. I'm a Master Doctor, and have earned it the hard way (no tumblers), I've used 140pts to master it. And I refuse to allow people to reduce me to a role of buffing only, and sitting in a med center all day. If i wanted to do that, I would dabble in Doctor, because according to your vision, I wouldnt need the whole skill treeinorder tobuff and heal wounds.
In my experience in pvp, we ALWAYS take Combat Medics out first, and those who arefighting against us,Always target my groups Combat Medic.This being the case, the Combat medic never has the chance to be a true medic, meaning, he hardly gets the opportunity to throw area heals, or to drag a inncapped player, or dead player tothe Docto rez them or cure them. This tactic reduces the combat medic to a biological warfare expert only, and not amedic.
While my group is taking out the Combat medic, the others in my group are taking out the Doctor. Why? Because Doctors, after the Combat Medic is gone, can make or break a battle. With them constantly rezing,rebuffing, and healing states, they are the ones that keep their teamates alive, and keep them from having "States" that weaken them. Just ask any TKM, and they will tell you that a doc is the bane of there coveted "KD".
Doctors are needed as much as any other profession in pvp. Without the ability to Heal, which is what Doctors do, our proffession becomes useless. We continue to see dabblers, or the buff-bots, who don't have the medicine orintrest in healing wounds or healing states.
Now that the new publish made NPC's are alot more difficult tosolo, Doctors will take up the role I remember having when the game was released. With the up an coming publish's (even though they are far off in the future) buffs being reduced and armor resists being reduced,people are really going to depend on both Combat medics and Doctors together. There willbe few people who can solo missions anymore. You must keep in mind that the NPC's and Creaturesare easy only because they adjusted them accourding to the changes that the Combat Rebalance was going to bring, and then they pushed these publish's back, leaving us with uber buffs and armor, and thus, easier missions for people to solo.
With the revamps coming out, I think we will see alot more dependancy on other proffessions. Keep Doctors as the healers, and medics as the stabilizers.
As far as crafting goes, I do it all myself. Iharvest food and creatures, and even though I enjoy crafting good meds, I dont want to do that all the time. I dont sell buffs in the street either. I created my character to be a Master Doctor, who is respected by my group for my healing abilities in pvp. I dont like the idea of being a buff bot and medicine crafter only. I created the content of my gameplay by being a true Master Doctor ( healing states, curing, rezing, and yes, even buffing). With your suggestion I would not be able to do much of anything that I enjoy doing with my guild and my proffession.
~Ocasri Orini~
O&D
Dyvim1674
Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:20 am
#8
Again, with the new inocculents Doc's can make, CM's won't be that end all offensive power they were before, which is what a majority of the CM population wanted.
People mistake the COMBAT in Combatmedic for being a Elite class combatant. A combat medic is a Medic in Combat, the one who can, again, toss long range heals, heal the mind, drag people around, keep others busy with dealing with poisions etc..
Doctors with these PvP required abilities are becoming FOTM which is what we want to try to AVOID. CM could falout to be an FOTM at that point, but with so much sp useage, it doesn't leave much wiggle room. Cm should just be that support class who is most effective in large PvP groups.
I problem I've seen in an overview, the doctor/melee FOTMs could at some points take on 3+ combatants because physical damage was the only thing that could put a damper on them, definatly something everyone woud want to avoid.
2 Slight fixes made to main post:
Give all the ranged stim, Area stim schematics to doctor, but leave the poisions and sub comps in CM.
Make the healstates, fire heals, poision/diease heals CM would get not appliable to self (So you don't have solo PvP Cms out there taking down groups of more then 3)
As a Slight recap, doctors should not be part of PvP templates, though it could be if you just wanted to stim people, rez people, rebuff people, like you said.
Message Edited by Dyvim1674 on 07-31-2004 09:25 AM
Dyvim1674
Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:33 am
#9
dasri wrote:
Sorry Dyvim, I have to strongly disagree with you. I think your vision of Doctors "sitting in the med centers" and "tending to battlestricken patients, and enhancing fighter's pre-fights" is exatly the vision of what people have of us Doctors now. I'm a Master Doctor, and have earned it the hard way (no tumblers), I've used 140pts to master it. And I refuse to allow people to reduce me to a role of buffing only, and sitting in a med center all day. If i wanted to do that, I would dabble in Doctor, because according to your vision, I wouldnt need the whole skill treeinorder tobuff and heal wounds.
In my experience in pvp, we ALWAYS take Combat Medics out first, and those who arefighting against us,Always target my groups Combat Medic.This being the case, the Combat medic never has the chance to be a true medic, meaning, he hardly gets the opportunity to throw area heals, or to drag a inncapped player, or dead player tothe Docto rez them or cure them. This tactic reduces the combat medic to a biological warfare expert only, and not amedic.
While my group is taking out the Combat medic, the others in my group are taking out the Doctor. Why? Because Doctors, after the Combat Medic is gone, can make or break a battle. With them constantly rezing,rebuffing, and healing states, they are the ones that keep their teamates alive, and keep them from having "States" that weaken them. Just ask any TKM, and they will tell you that a doc is the bane of there coveted "KD".
Doctors are needed as much as any other profession in pvp. Without the ability to Heal, which is what Doctors do, our proffession becomes useless. We continue to see dabblers, or the buff-bots, who don't have the medicine orintrest in healing wounds or healing states.
Now that the new publish made NPC's are alot more difficult tosolo, Doctors will take up the role I remember having when the game was released. With the up an coming publish's (even though they are far off in the future) buffs being reduced and armor resists being reduced,people are really going to depend on both Combat medics and Doctors together. There willbe few people who can solo missions anymore. You must keep in mind that the NPC's and Creaturesare easy only because they adjusted them accourding to the changes that the Combat Rebalance was going to bring, and then they pushed these publish's back, leaving us with uber buffs and armor, and thus, easier missions for people to solo.
With the revamps coming out, I think we will see alot more dependancy on other proffessions. Keep Doctors as the healers, and medics as the stabilizers.
As far as crafting goes, I do it all myself. Iharvest food and creatures, and even though I enjoy crafting good meds, I dont want to do that all the time. I dont sell buffs in the street either. I created my character to be a Master Doctor, who is respected by my group for my healing abilities in pvp. I dont like the idea of being a buff bot and medicine crafter only. I created the content of my gameplay by being a true Master Doctor ( healing states, curing, rezing, and yes, even buffing). With your suggestion I would not be able to do much of anything that I enjoy doing with my guild and my proffession.
~Ocasri Orini~
O&D
Well no **edit**, of course a Support class will get trageted first. But assuming they put in my concept, having 2 of these CMs taking care of eachother and the rest of the group will keep both combat medics alive and the rest of the group, assmuing these CMs are using their abilities to their potential (Mind healing, area stimming, poision/diease/fire/state healing, etc.)
This proposed chagen isn't FORCING a doctor to be a full time buffer in coro or sit in a med center. You would have the potential to be in a group out PvPing or PvEing, but a lot of what you do out there would be cut out. Still leaves doc's with rezs/buffs/stims, but they just won't be in charge of status effects
RougeSoldier
Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:57 am
#10
no offense or anything man but thats why the speedline was given the title "field surgeon".I agree it makes sense in a way.But if you did that then you'de be shafting doctor.
dasri
Sat Jul 31, 2004 10:13 am
#11
Assuming they put in my concept, having 2 of these CMs taking care of eachother and the rest of the group will keep both combat medics alive and the rest of the group, assmuing these CMs are using their abilities to their potential (Mind healing, area stimming, poision/diease/fire/state healing, etc.)
This proposed chagen isn't FORCING a doctor to be a full time buffer in coro or sit in a med center. You would have the potential to be in a group out PvPing or PvEing, but a lot of what you do out there would be cut out. Still leaves doc's with rezs/buffs/stims, but they just won't be in charge of status effects
But why give the Combat medic the ability to do so much? And to have that much power (Mind healing, area stimming, poision/diease/fire/state healing, etc.)" Why do that, when the doctor and Combat Medic can work together in the field as the current system allows?
The battleshould not bedecided by how many Combat Medics a group has. That is how the current system is now. If u have Combat Medics in a group, you can own the people you are going up against.I think your suggestion would cause Combat Medics to be overpowered, and if u couple that with a combat proffesions like swordsman, rifleman, or TKM, you will have an uber player, with the ability to cure, heal, poison, and deal heavy damage. One proffesion should not be able to do it all. And your suggestion would allow for that.
~Ocasri Orini~
TenshiHanaKinu
Sat Jul 31, 2004 10:51 am
#12
I am not a buff dispenser / crafting dispenser.
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
Doctor 4/0/0/0
Title: "Field Surgeon"
Dyvim1674
Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:40 pm
#13
The Lowdown:
(Forgive my sloppy typing... silly laptops)
Doctors should not be battlefield professionals.
My image of a doctor is the guy who sits in the med center or where-ever tending to battlestricken patients and enhancing the fighters pre-fight. Unfortunatly SOE's image was slightly consistant with that, except they implimented a "Field Doctor" line of the profession, which gave them their PvP skills, and gave doctor a chance to grow as a PvP template.
Currently, Combat medics serve as the Field doctors, keeping opponents at bay with poision/diease, mass healing and range healing, ability to heal mind, dragging etc.. Ability to heal poisions/diease is most effective during COMBAT, as is ability to heal states and fire.
My Theory:
Doctor- Remove the poision/diease/fire/state heal ability from doctor, BUT, keep the ability to craft these heal packs in the doctor crafting tree, making the 2 profession semi-codependent on eachother. Move all range stims/area stims from CM crafting to doctor crafting
CM- Move the ability to heal states/poision/diease/fire into the combat medic speed line, and move the title of FieldSurgeon from Doc speed line to CM speed line (for the sake of consistancy). make new heal status effect abilities non-appliable to self
With the new inocculents, CMs will not be the offensive force they used to be, and it will give them an oppurtunity to become that support class they're supposed to be.
Flame me, pick apart this post, whatever. I'm actually looking for comments to possibly revise this and try to get it out there as a possible concept....
I'm sure you'll hear a lot about all this, and I know there's a few threads out there already, but I'm just trying to get a scope on how you all view your profession
Message Edited by Dyvim1674 on 07-31-2004 08:05 PM
Page 1 of 7