Development Cycle Archive

Holo,

First, let me say that it is very much appreciated that you took the time to make this a topic in the developer forum because this limit on schematics really bothers me.

When I first found out that schematics could make a 1000 I was so happy I nearly threw a party. Manufacturing with a 100 limit really sucks and absolutely makes the game a drag. Not only does it tie us to our factories, but it also makes us spend countless (pointless) hours trying to get the right prototype for manufacturing over and over and over...

That said, I have to agree with what others have stated and that your horrible DB problems force you into making compromises that take fun out of the game. You created this game with all these good ideas in mind about resources, manufacturing, collecting and building things etc, and then you do an about-face and limit virtually everything because of the underlying DB problems.

If you have to make another compromise because of DB issues, then my request would be to allot at least 500-600 per schematic. But for crying out loud, please get a new DB crew and system implemented so we can all get on with having fun in the game!

OT I know, but you want one example of how a better DB would make the game more fun? One of my characters is a crafter and I have had loads of people tell me they won’t buy furniture to furnish their house because they have no room for house furniture or house decorations. With a new BD system you could keep the current limits on house items plus add an extra 50 items for furniture and décor only. Maybe then I could sell furniture and people would stop living in empty houses that only have vendors and crafting machines.

Thanks

Sub-components are the main issue. Having many upper level schematics that require multiple identical components is the gripe. I think 500 -1000 would be good to leave it at.

I make 1000 use synth cloth schematics, and generally run off anywhere from 400 to 800 from each schematic. I go through this many synth cloth in no time as a Tailor, and getting this "fixed" to 100 would be detrimental. I guess I should be glad you don't consider this an "exploit" and ban me from the game. Please, please, please don't set the limit to 100.

I say limit it to 100 and NOT 1000

First of all you have problems with the amount of items on the server. We certainly can't store that many factory crates anywhere for very long and people have a tendency to keep things around forever. 100 is 4 crates, much more reasonable.

Second the player economy scalability. 1000 is a gross number for anything.We don't need mass amounts destroying the economy by producing ultra cheap goods that then make the situation with lack of a money sink hole that much more aggravated.

Third the time. So it takes architechts and other professions longer to make stuff. I say thats a good thing. Instant gratification isworthless in a game you want longevity for. I know plenty of master architects who never tried using a schematic above 100 anyway. Its not only possible to do it is not a horrible game breaking undue burden on anyone but the most impatient of people.

Smaller amounts of items mean they'll go for more money. Non artisan non entertainers seem to have more than enough money to spend on and nothing to do with it, let them spread it around.

If only chef created food and drink was required for all players in the game you'd have a lovely sinkhole and limiting schematics would help that out too.

I say, keep it at 100, unless you've figured out a way to give us unlimited items on a server, in which case you'd best be doubling and quadroupling our items inside structures, you're just making matters worse for yourself if you go higher.

"How impactful is it? What is a reasonable limit in your mind?"

It is a huge impact. Essential what you are saying is we don't want you building final products in factories. Numberous items require 10 or more of the same identical subcoment. So the biggest run of these products you can make is 9 items. More realisticly 8 or 7.

Honestly I don't see how this lessens demand on your database. In fact I see it as probably increase. Now people will be required to have 10x as many unique components. 10x as many unique schematics. While the quantities produced are lower, the number of unique items has been increase substantially.

Also you take away the advantage of the factory working while you are offline, because the longest run is now going to be 2-3 hours or so.

I find it funny how you always pick the side players dislike when you say because of obvious discrepencies. So you feel whoever designed the gui interface (who lets you put numbers bigger than 100 in the text box, and let you manually enter numbers in the text box) obviously had a better understanding than the programer who wrote the underwriting code for factories and crafting schematics which allows for expansion up to 1000.

If you want to save some DB room, just make it so that crates can hold 1000 items. Crafters only take items out of crates as they need them. So instead of storing 50 crates like I do now, I could just store 8 or so. Saves some DB space and has little impact on my crafting.

Please don't limit schematics to 100. at least give us 300. I can make 300 structure mods in a day of waiting. and will sell them very quickly in the next day. If you limit the schem to 100 then you cramp my business.

Without repeating the above mentioned reasons why the 100 limit is too low, I would like to suggest 300-500 as the new limit.

In addition to what has been said - this new limitation would result in having to store more crates of made items.

And I'd like to ask one question before this gets too long:

As a chef, I've seen two types of subcomponent schematics: one has multiple slots (Tatooine sunburn requires two starshine surprises, but in two different schematic slots), the other has a single slot with a label0/x (Cortyg requires two factory identical alcohols, and has one box with 0/2). It's my understanding that the first type can have components with different serial numbers, while the second require matching ones.

So I could make two starshine schematics, and use one from each to make a sunburn schematic, allowing for 99 final sunburns. A Cortyg schematicwould require 2 identical alcohols, leaving me with 98 from a 100 run, for a final result of 49. I haven't seen mentions of schematics simliar to the sunburn, but also haven't looked through all the elite schematics.

Do any of the hard-hit schematics (wall modules, T21, StimEs) use separate component boxes? Or do they all use the single box and 0/x?

Like most of the Master Archis here I'm pretty against it too. If its limited to 100 that means I have to make a new schematic for every 100 structural modules which means a new schematic for every 10 walls. I'm already miffed enough that a factory wont take the structural modules out of the crates to make walls so I have to sit there emptying them.

For the most part though I don't go above 100. It's really only structural modules. Though I don't know a single crafter in my PA who doesn't have atleast one schem they run for over 100.

Needs to stay at 1000.

As adoctor / cm need as many identical items as possible. I make runs of 1000 becs / liquid susp andcdr's to save having many crates of mismatched items.

I think your looking at having the same DB issue unless you totally change the way doctor crafting works. Its not hard to burn through a crate of meds (stims wound packs of all types) per big fight. Just look at the wounds a flamethrower does and you would start to understand the amount of resources consumed and the need to stock large amounts of ingeds.

I firmly believe with 99% of the people here. To limit schematics to 100 when you have final products that require 4+ identical pieces will be disasterous to the game. It take s a lot of patience and tolerance to build up to a master crafting skill, and those of us who do heavily rely upon the schematic "bug" to produce a fair amount of products in the time we spend gaming. I think that having factories was intended not only as a stipulation, but as a reward to those of us who have achieved master and can now set our factories to run and persue other courses of intrest in the meantime. We no longer have to sit and handmake everything, we can simply run off items and then go on our way. (For the most part.) All those hours have been rewarded. We no longer need the exp, and we benefit.

I firmly believe that to lower the schematic to anything below 500 would kill the economies of all the servers. Those of us who work andgo to school full time(and that is the majority of your players) have no wish to sit around and spend our time pumping out schematics like we did components when we were gaining skill in the first place. There will be a majority of people who will quit crafting, and aren't there enough of those people already? I spendone to twohours running around collecting 20+ heavy harvesters that I rent out from others just to keep my business running the way I like to.Then I go to myfactory,make the schematic I want (if I have to) then run my factories.Then I can go about my business until I need/want to go back and make something else. This is my reward for being a master.The changes would tie me to my factory even more so than I am now, and thatis not something I would wish on anyone.

We all know that your database is what you make it and so is your game. This change would not affect just one class, this would affect every class. From what I see here everyone is agreeing 500 is a good number. So please, go with that.

DO NOT nerf schematics now. There are too many upper level items that require multiple subcomponents from the same crate/schematic. Like Stim D's and E's.

IF you set the limit from 1000 to 100 and could only make a Bio Effects Controller schematic with a limit of 100, that would mean that you could only get a maximum of 33 Stim E's done before starting ALL over again. And that does not include the grind of experimenting a decent product. You could end up with much less than 33 Stim E's.

Keep the limit exactly the way it is. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Is the Database really that stressed at this point that you are looking for ways (still) to slim it down? I mean we are closing in on three months now, aren't you at "cruise speed" with regard to the taxing of servers and such.

Setting the limit will TOTALLY screw the market on consumable type items in SWG. For crying out loud, the economy is finally where it should be after the factory fiasco of the Aug 13th patch.

I am actually buying consumables from a wholesaler on ahazi now, and reselling them. That is player run economy at it's best! This schematic nerf would KILL the consumables market on SWG if implimented.