Development Cycle Archive

Thread: IC4: Path of the Jedi

FeebleMan
Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:46 pm
#1119

Why not let everyone be a Jedi?


Everyone wants to play a Jedi. Every other SW game that has any semblance of role-playing allows players to fulfill this fantasy. SWG is the singular exception.


The canon of the time period maintains that they are rare. But rare compared to what? SW is a universe that represents thousands and thousands of worlds, with millions of inhabitants on each. The game only models a handful of those worlds, and incredibly few non-player inhabitants. Coronet itself should be a city teaming with a life its own, not just a collection of solid prop buildings. Where are the newspapers? Where are the hints that there is some sort of life going on beyond the player run cantinas and the starport entrance auction area? Canon doesn’t need to be broken, merely the fiction surrounding play circumstance. Instead of the players representing all the life there is in the galaxy the fiction needs to be reworked so that it accurately describes the players as those rare rugged individuals who leave home and hearth seeking adventure. If all the players are rare being then all of them possessing rare powers becomes much less an issue.


Lots of Jedi break continuity. Any more than cloning? Any more than multitudes of blaster shots failing to kill bunnies and butterflies? Any more than being able to exchange blows with Rancors? Reality is consistently broken in favor of fun. The fiction of the game itself could easily be bent to maintain canon for the most part. Certainly it wouldn’t hurt the fiction any more that it already is.


I don’t want to see big groups of Jedi blasting away at each other. Too late. There are already guilds that have multiple individuals with FSCS. As time progresses and with the interest in becoming Jedi that the fanbase have this situation will only grow more pronounced.


But most of all the subscribers, the fans want to play them. That reason alone is enough to reconsider the philosophy of trying to maintain a type of rarity. Rarity of such an iconic figure only rewards the most hardcore players who will stop at nothing to achieve their goals. The bulk of the subscriber base and the majority of paying customers are locked out.


Changes that could be implemented to allow all players a crack at Jedi.



  • Create a sense that the universe beyond the players exists. Newpapers, Info terminals, and NPC conversations should be created and updated regularly to include frivolous back story fluff, like reports of battles happening out on the rim, crime in the cities, and political intrigue among the governors and moffs of the universe. Woven into these could be hints to missions and POIs that already exist in the game.

  • Make Jedi rare on specific planets. Allow player jedi to do their thing on the rim, the fictionally unpopulated world like Dathomir, but have the entire Imperial army come down like the hand of God if force powers are used on Theed or Corellia. This may force an even greater number of Jedi to congregate on certain planets, but those locations would at least be fictionally representative of areas fugitives might gather.

  • Cap the amount of XP a FSCS can receive in any one day. Players will be unable to rush straight to the top. Devs will also be able to monitor and predict with greater accuracy the levels that Jedi players will be able to achieve. For achiever characters this may very result in their only playing the Jedi character while it is capable of receiving XP. Perhaps only allow play of a Jedi character for a set amount of time in excess of their XP cap each day.

TomJonStarfire
Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:23 pm
#1120

As I said in a previous response on this subject, a prerequisite for the Jedi profession needs to be an elite combat profession. Was there ever a Jedi who did not use his skills in combat? Isn't the point of being a Jedi to bring down the dark side? or destroy the rebellion, if you choose the dark side? A player should have mastered an elite combat profession since combat will be part of the life of the Jedi.


But also, Jedi have other powers which we have seen demonstrated in the movies. Anakin (aka Darth Vader) could fix anything, right? Droids, speeders, you name it. Master Artisan, right? And later, in Episode 2, when the Jedi are facing anihilation in the arena, we see Anakin use his Creature Handler skills to tame a beast and mount him, with Padme in tow. And also, don't we see politics taking place around the Jedi conference table as these Jedi Master Politicians debate their next move against the dark side.


I would suggest a Super Elite skill tree which follows the Elite Profession skill tree. Of the 16 skill boxes of this super elite skill tree, at least half should be pure combat experience and mastery of the Jedi combat skills. The other half should be super elite skills related to the elite profession upon which the Super Elite skill tree sits.


The question for the Devs would be, what would a Master Doctor, Master Artisan, Master Politician, Master Teras Kai, Master Creature Handler, Master Entertainer, Master Pistoleer, etc, be with Jedi blood running through his veins. How could Jedi skills be applied to the various professions to make them super-professions. What skills would a Jedi Doctor have, a Jedi Creature Handler, a Jedi Marksman .......


I think it will be very important to the game to have all the professions involved in the super elite Jedi profession. I think it would be a disaster to have all combatants and no doctors, architects, entertainers, clothing designers, furniture makers. All of these skills need to be valued and thework that everyone has done needs to be convertible to Jedi experience points.The gamedoes depend on the concept of the community ..... and their needs to be good motivationfor players to choose a wide variety of professions. I would hate to go to the bazzar, or be searching for a vendor, and not be able to find what I need because all the crafters have quit to become Jedi and are out killing stormtroopers or rebels somewhere.


But again, a Jedi is a combatant .... fighting to suppress the rebellion, or bring down the dark side. So,experience points from an elite combat profession must bean integral partof becoming a padawan learner.
Metratton
Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:56 am
#1121


I did not have the time to read all of the posts, so some of this maybe very redunant, if so then I am sorry...


What I Would Like to See


Quest to Unlock the Force Character:

First off instead of getting a whole new character is should be one of two things...


1) Either your current character becomes a Jedi. In this case the quest should move you from whatever path you have choosen for your character into one that is inline with being a Jedi. In doing so, you should have two basic paths, combat oriented or non-combat oriented. Remeber that not all Jedi are combat specialist. Then these two basic paths should have a dark side and a light side to them.


Both paths should envolve two parts; finding a Jedi Master/trainer. Doing the quests he/she sends you on to become aJedi. (remember that not all Jedi are dead in SW. Many lived through the eratication of the Jedi and are in hiding. Just because Vadar, Yoda and Ben are the main ones shown in the movies does not make them the only ones. There have been Jedi in the SW books and comics who like Ben and Yoda were in hiding....)


2) If you are going to have the Jedi be a second character and not your main character. Then make the quest to open the slot one to find that character!!! Make the quest a series of tasks needed to locate a Jedi in hiding... When you find him the slot is opened. The quest should be random enough so that people can't just go out an skip the hard part of the quest and find the Jedi...


You could have it so that we are looking for a Jedi master who ends up being dead, but not before he started training a new Jedi to replace him... Whatever, but make it part of the game not just a list of tasks you have to complete to open a slot while completely distorying your first character!!!


As for Advancing as a Jedi: Have the new character hunt for Jedi knowledge. Remember that most of the remaining Jedi are scattered, their knowledge is scattered as well. If you want to go down the path to become a master you have to re-learn what was once known by all of the Jedi. If you can find a Jedi and learn a thing or two great. But most of it will come as hard work, looking for lost tomes and interacting with the world at large. There are no more schools for this stuff, you either need to find an old treacher or re-learn it form scratch. Even when you find someone knowledgeable about the force, they should be only one part of the pie and not the whole answer. Making your own lightsaber and learning how to use it should be a big part of the combat oriented path. Learning how to force interacts with the worlds should be a big part of the non-combat oriented path.


One last thing.... Please keep in mind that SWG is not the SW Movies!!! The comics have put out alternate paths for the SW stories, like Luke turning to the darkside and Laia being the one to fight for the good side!!! In my opinion the players should determine what happens in the game. Each server should be allowed to progress in their own direction!! If the Hunts raise up and take out both the Rebs and Imps so be it, let it happen as the players decide. It's a game after all not a remake of the movies. If someone takes out Vadar great!! Whatever happens let it happen, let the players have real control over how the servers develop, don't lock us into the movies...


Let time pass... In four to five years we should see one side win the war and the universe change.


--Graves






Kyworrka/Dorman


SenateGuard
Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:22 pm
#1122

I have read what you believe is a good way to become a jedi, and altought im not a dev or anything,I just personally wanted to commend you because I believe your way is a great way to do this, and its also a way that alows every player, not just power players, to become a jedi!


Sincerely,


'Alex Naberie ( Valcyn Server)


Leana_Txorana
Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:47 pm
#1123

I have a specific idea including a name and race. This was doable with the current method of the FSCS was a new character and the character that unlocked the FSCS was not the one that was force sensitive.


If the new method only allows the active character to be the one that is force sensitive then I would like to know this so I can create the correct base character with the appropriate name and race.



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mistan
Fri Mar 26, 2004 2:01 pm
#1124

ok i just finished reading this mans ideas for the 3rd time and i still get excited.. so i just want to say this is a great post and it gets my vote for how the system should work i 100% agree keep it up man
JediChuck1974
Fri Mar 26, 2004 2:56 pm
#1125


Killing Mobs...

Getting Missions from NPC's

I have not seen one person who couldnt beg help from a friend to complete anything like this.


1. In the days of the old republic Jedi would serch for students who were "force sensative" young people with the gift of the force. children mostly. "younglings" as Yoda called them in Episode 2.


1. These children would be trained in the ways of the Force. when they came of a certain age. They would be Chosen by a master and taught as their padawan.


3. When the Master felt their student was ready they would submit them for approval by the "Jedi Council" and they would begin the Jedi Trials.


4. When..or if they were successful, they were then given the title of "Jedi Knight" and then they would roam the Galaxies doing missions for the Jedi order (Police Actions, diplomacy, scoutting missions)


5. They would remain Jedi Knights for a long time. or until they completed a final test of strength in the use ofthe force, commitment, and focus of mind. (for instance- Killing a Sith of equal or greater ability.)


6. Once they were a master they would choose 2 paths a) they would continue their service in the Jedi Order as a solo Ambassador, or they would choose a padawan and the process begins again.


Catch up: The Republic has been disbanded and the Senate that held it together has been removed by the Emperor. The Jedi Order has been decimated by Darth vader,the Sith, and Bounty Hunters. So then my friends what do we do?


Suggestions: We all know there are people out there near to becoming Master Jedi. Not to mention we still have the NPC "Lord Vader" on the loose. And there are Dark Jedi out there as well.


1. to Become a Master you need to complete the most sevear Trial of All and defeat a Dark Jedi of your own caliber. (be careful out there folks, they want to kill you too so they can become master Sith) To maintain Master Jedi you must survive. If you are Killed by another Jedi you will be stripped of your master Status and you will be a Knight again. (same goes for the Sith).


2. To become a Jedi Knight you will need to complete the Trials (I have no idea what they will be, throw a dog a bone here, I cant think of everything)


3. to Become a Padawan you must be trained in the force and then taken in by a Jedi Master. (these guys will be hard to find since in these dark times they are kicking the force out of eachother to be master Sith and Master Jedi.)


4. To be Force Sensative. (well in the films, books, articles, short stories there are only a few ways to become sensative. coming into contact with an "Artifact" or by being Born that way... Since it doesnt quite work like that in SWG I have no suggestions here)


To Sum up: Yes I think it would be nice if Jedi could pair up and do missions that way, thus improving themselves, and it will add to the RP experience in SWG. Yes I think that Master Jedi should have a hard time of it. thats why they are the masters. If you are a padawan of a Master Jedi who is slain. Then you can try to find a new master or continue alone. keep in mind continueing alone will be very difficult and the Master who was with you on the Missions will no longer be able to Help you.


-"Obi Wan can longer Help him"-


Unless of course he chose to become a Blue Glowy and not revert back to Jedi Knight State (in which case he will have to start all over again with his force sensative slotif he wants to be a jedi again.) good luck getting them to do that.


I also suggest a new ability be added to the force tree, or you can make it inate or simply more prominent as the Force user improves their ability.


Force Sense- this ability allows Jedi and Sith to sense one another in specific areas, Planets, cities and so on. The Stronger the Abilty the better they can determine things about the other jedi/sith in the area


-Jeric Futna is a Jedi Master. She senses that there is a Sith (xxxx, xxxx) in the city.


-Ebi Mass is a Jedi Knight. She senses that their is a Sith in the Area


-Nerc Nerdin is a padawan. He senses that their is a disturbance in the force.


-Nerfherder Nick is Force Sensative. He senses nothing. other than himself.


This works both ways of course. A Sith is less likely to detect a Force Sensative person as opposed to a Jedi Master simply because they arent as strong in the force. This can change with Proximity.


ug. I'm out of breath. I will try to get more ideas out to you folks, but as I see the suggestion Box is going down soon. I doubt it.


-May the Force be with you-


Aaryc Araon (Valkyn)



"Adventure. Heh! Excitement. Heh! A Jedi craves not these things."
-Yoda-
TheOndusClan
Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:16 pm
#1126

Im the sort of player who does things fast at the beginning and then later think "I dont like this character".

I have read most of the posts (skipped some huge ones:smileytongue and i think that when/if we get the slot then we get to reshape our current characters to suit our new jedi path.


Sorry for the not so big post or great details, i just wanted to say my idea. thats my 2 pence.
FeebleMan
Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:03 pm
#1127

Old Yeller


Short quest that is one leg in the player’s quest to unlock the FSCS. At several points the player will have to make moral decisions that while not particularly changing the outcome of the quest may help determine whether the player follow a dark or light path in their drive to Jedihood.


This adventure is assuming the player will need to hunt down clues leading them to a fifth column of hidden Force Sensitives who will eventually reveal how to unlock the FSCS. It also assumes that there is some sort of information network for the characters to access, libraries with research computers, governmental record computers, fifth column jedi operative placed throughout the galaxy, etc.


On completion of the previous quest the player will be given the name Mitzi Regal who helped the Jedi during the clone wars. She was a medic during the war and made friends with several Jedi, she may have information leading to surviving Jedi, if the player can find her.


The first part of the quest is tracking Dr. Regal down. Trips to libraries should reveal that she is now involved in the Arquarian Society, a group of doctors dedicated to wiping out degenerative diseases. Further research show that the Arquarians are headquartered on Rori. Once on Rori any medic or doctor NPC should have an additional conversation text box that displays for players flagged with this quest. They will reveal the waypoint to where Dr. Regal is harvesting rare flora to make medicines for the rapidly escalating civil war occurring out on the Rim.


Once the player arrives at the farm they will find Dr. Mitzi and several staff member fretting over several sets of crates. Conversation will open with Dr. Regal expressing disbelief that some of her equipment is missing.


Dr. Regal if asked immediately will shrug off any inquiries regarding the Jedi. “That was a long time ago, I have work to do.” If asked about the missing equipment she will explain that the floral harvester is specially manufactured for a rare type of plant. She would greatly appreciative any help the play can offer but being a doctor doesn’t have much in the way of reward. She will explain that the missing crates may have been stolen by a nearby group of ne’er-do-wells, fallen of the transport somewhere between the camp and town or possibly been taken by someone in the camp.


The parts in fact did fall off the transport speeder. The crates were then picked up by another group of farmers living near by. If possible there should an animal lair or plants in between the camp and town. Examining these should reveal hints to scouts and rangers, “There’s a deep impression in the ground, as if a heavy object fell here.” Or “Some of the branches of this bush are snapped as if being carrying a heavy object moved past.” Or “There are footprints nearby pressed too heavily into the soil, someone was carrying a heavy object.”


Interviewing the camp personal will have a bunch of dead end conversations. Since most players will have a weapon in hand have a few conversations where the player can threaten the interviewee, “I know you hid that crate, tell me where or I start blasting!” If the player chooses to threaten display a warning asking if they are certain they want to follow this course. If they choose yes then assign a few darkside points that will affect the Jedi powers available to them once FSCS is unlocked. Ultimately interviewing the staff will prove useless.


When the player eventually visits the enemy camp they will in fact find a settlement with struggling farmers. The option to outright attack them should be offered in the radial menu. Choosing to attack should yield a warning and darkside points if the player proceeds with it.


Conversation with the farmers will reveal that they do in fact have the crates. They will be rude and belligerent and refuse to give the crates back as it’s the first financial windfall they’ve had in ages. If the player presses they will find there are a few things that they can do that would encourage the farmer to give back the crates. At this point the conversation would allow the player to view 5 alternate paths to resolve the conflict.



  1. Path of Conflict – The player can attack the farmers and loot back the stolen property.

  2. Path of Building – The player will have the option of building a piece of machinery the farmer needs. The player will receive a schematic and the final parameters the device needs to be considered successful. The player then must find the resources and build the device. The schematic disappears once the item is successfully traded to the farmer.

  3. Path of Healing – The player will need to successfully heal several members of the farmer family back up to full health, possibly even needing to create a unique health agent with a temporary schematic.

  4. Path of Stealth (smugglers, scouts, rangers and commandos) – The player will be presented with the option to slip into the farmers home at night and recover the crates without the farmers knowledge.

  5. Path of Diplomacy (diplomats and entertainers) – The player will need to work through a convoluted conversation path to find that the farmers will be willing to trade the crates back to the Arquarians in exchange for medical services.

Darkside points can be issued to varying degrees for taking paths that don’t resolve the problem through peaceful and lawful means.


Dr. Regal will be delighted that the player has helped and will hint that she may indeed know something but not quite be satisfied that the player isn’t up to no good. She will press the player to prove their intention by helping to place the harvester. The player must protect an aide who will survey his way to a good spot for the harvester.


The aide will lead the player to a spot where there is a creature nest. The player cannot place the harvester because of the nest. The aide will inspect the nest and become excited. A species of Squall thought to be extinct. The family of Goldenback Squalls is a rare endangered species. The aide at this point can offer some conversation threads to help the player decide what to do.



  1. Path of Conflict – The player can simply kill the Squalls and place the harvester.

  2. Path of Building – The player could receive a temporary schematic that will result in an alternative habitat for the Squalls. Once placed the aide will yell and hop around chasing the Squalls to the new home. The player can then place the harvester unhindered.

  3. Path of Healing – The aide will inform the player that normal stim packs act as a tranquilizing agent allowing the characters to knock the Squalls out and move them to a new location. Once moved the players will need to knock down the lair and place the harvester before the critters awake and return. (alternatively a temporary schematic could provide the same)

  4. Path of Stealth (smugglers, scouts, rangers and commandos) – The aide will explain that he can convert any of their traps into a net that will hold the Squalls long enough to be moved elsewhere. If the players give him a trap he will give them a net for use on the Squall.

  5. Path of Diplomacy (diplomats and entertainers) – the aide will tell them that they could inform the Rori Wildlife Service of the animals who will then attempt to capture and place them into a zoo. The player will need to travel back to town to inform the wildlife service. The animals will be captured and removed before the player returns to the site.

Dr. Regal will be ecstatic once the player returns having finished the mission. After some thanks and informing the player that their efforts will help save the lives of soldiers fighting out on the Rim as the civil war heats up, she will then give the player the next clue in their quest to unlock the FSCS.

JediChuck1974
Fri Mar 26, 2004 6:32 pm
#1128

Yoda Said the Dark side is "easier, quicker, more seductive." I feel that the Jediin their path should not know weather they are succuming to the dark side or not.


As Jedi begin they should all be Jedi since the only two true sith out there are Palpatine and Vader. It would make sense that falling to the Dark Side would be easy,and would have quick rewards.


Question for the other Forum folks. does anyone know The Jedi Code? as Lucas has set it down. might be helpful to lay it out.


Aaryc Araon (Valkyn)



"Adventure. Heh! Excitement. Heh! A Jedi craves not these things."
-Yoda-
SolynBria
Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:07 pm
#1129

I like many of the ideas I've read, and im gonna try not to repeat anything. I just want to push the fact that this should be very diversified. With many chances to push the path of your character in different directions almost personalizing your character. I think the crafting branches deserve their chance in the spot light. (considering artisan is extremely hard and not fun at all -in my opinion- allow them to have quests involving hiding and give them an easier way to being a light jedi.) while combat pofessions hould have a much harder time sticking to making the right desicions. Thats just my opinion.



War isn't about who's right... it's about who's left
-some dead guy-Guess he ain't left!
Solyn Roshknar-Bria-Master Swordsman-Master Doctor
TomJonStarfire
Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:12 pm
#1130


One more thought I had about the path to jedi .....


I'm still concerned about players leaving the professions to follow a path to Jedi and leaving us without artisans, doctors, clothes designers, droid engineers, hunters, entertainers, etc.


Let's make sure Jedi initiates still needMONEY (credits) to continue on their path. Let's make sure Jedi need to hunt, build, cure, dance, etc. to have the resources necessary to live and complete their training.


If there is an opportunity to place the Super Elite Jedi skill template over all of the elite professions, then padawan learners can continue in the professions they had previously chosen, contributing to the community and receiving from the community, as they follow their pathway toward becoming a Jedi.
Balzan
Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:37 pm
#1131

Several things people keep forgetting. The jedi of this day are not the jedi of the old republic, there may be a few jedi out there who were once Padawans of the old Republic, but they would be few and far between.

The jedi of this day did not grow up using the force, the jedi of this day are forced to become padawnas in their adulthood.


Jedi should strive to not have anything more than their lightsaber, their robes, and some spare credits to make their way around the galaxy. If they have more, thenthey are on the path to the dark side, because it increases greed, thus their self pride.



Taerl Setran | Churen Tek-Den
Smuggler 90 | Elder Jedi 90----|

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