Development Cycle Archive

Thread: In Concept: One Sentence Combat Change Requests

Eyedun
Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:14 am
#1028

Make med droids less than 100 med rating while not allowing tumbling type activities in the med center so its usefull again.



Eyedun Geddit
Kettemoor.com
Master DR / Master Merchant / Artisen 1044
Mos Eisley Mall - 800M South of Mos Eisly (3316 -5660) on Tatooine
I put the IMP in PIMP baby
Adapt and over come, dont whine and succumb.
ThornReese
Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:21 am
#1029

Cut Doc Buffs to 20% effect, and about the same timewise.


Hika Ebe

Master TKA
ThornReese
Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:22 am
#1030


Cut Doc Buffs to 20% effect, and about the same timewise.


Hika Ebe

Master TKA
BabyRancor
Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:10 pm
#1031



Purpose:



The purpose of this post is to propose a minimalist band-aid fix to combat in general and the GCW. This proposed fix would smooth over the largest issues in the ground game enough to tide us over until after JtL launches and the team is reassembled.


In addition to the issues / solutions presented below, each profession needs to have their most pressing issues addressed as well (Carbineer HAM costs for instance), a discussion which falls outside the scope of this post.



Rationale:



The GCW is the end-game of SWG. It should be the pursuit that most veteran players occupy themselves with once their character template is complete. Currently the GCW is unsatisfying as there are no objectives to be reached other than beating your opponent. Even if the GCW was engaging and satisfying, there are several large issues with SWG combat in general that need to be addressed before players could enjoy the end-game.



Aim



The aim here is to address these issues sufficiently to last until a full revamp may be considered, while using a minimum of new code and developer time.


The following issues will be considered in order of precidence (most serious issues first):


  • The HAM system

  • Death and Respawning

  • Doctor Buffs

  • DOTs

  • Jedi

  • The Galactic Civil War

The HAM System


Issues


The HAM system of SWG is unique in character and gives the game a definate feel and tactic different from other games. However, the HAM system as designed contains an inherent bias towards the Mind stat. It is the only stat that cannot be effectively healed, and so is the primary target and limiting factor to any combat. Professions which damage mind specifically have an inherent advantage versis other professions. In addition, the notion that the effects of special attacks can be readily healed has lead to other undesireable effects (i.e. "tumbling" or "tumble monkeys" aiding with macro'ing Medic XP).


Proposed Solution


Re-institute the proposed HAM system that was put on Test Center in Jan 04 (this code should still exist somewhere). This system drew the cost of specials from both the "current" pool value as well as the "maximum" pool value, with the effect that the cost of special attacks could no longer be healed but had to regenerate according to a fixed regeneration value.


Amplifying Remarks


In this system, combat damage is still applied to the primary pools as normal. Specials reduce both the current value and the max value of the primary pools according to the cost of the special, modified by the "cost" sub-stats (i.e. Strength). Primary stat reduction due to special attack use regenerates at a fixed value. Combat Damage to stats would continue to rengenerate according to the value of the "rengeneration" sub-stats (i.e. Constitution).


Example (numbers are all arbitrary for sake of arguement):



  1. Primary Health Pool: 800 / 800

  2. After firing a special attack (i.e. Body Shot): 700 / 700

  3. After taking 50 points of damage: 650 / 700

  4. Following regeneration of special attack cost: 750 / 800

  5. Following regeneration or healing of battle damage: 800 / 800

Justification



This solution addresses the following problems:


  • The Mind pool is no longer the primary focus of combat, as standard stims can be modified to heal Mind in addition to Health and Action.

  • Only damage sustained from combat can be healed, limiting AFK tumbling and other pursuits. Macro'ing XP will never go away, but it can be made more difficult.

Death and Re-spawning



Issues



The consequence of death in SWG manages to be both too lenient and too harsh. In PvE combat, death results in (at worse case) wounds, battle fatigue and 5% decay on armour, clothing and tools. In the case of insured items death still results in 1% item decay. The wounds and BF are inconsequential, but item decay causes player frustration. Even if insured, the player can be assured of slow equipment rot.


Armour decays in the process of battle, thus decay is unneeded (in fact it serves more to "rub salt in the wound") and serves to de-value armour skill enhancing attachments (as they will be destroyed eventually). Clothing does not disappear once completely decayed thus decay does not accomplish anything. Tools may or may not see a measureable effect due to decay, but aren't difficult to replace.


On the other hand, death in PvP carries minimal or no consequence whatsoever (if the player is cloned). While this is healthy and needed for PvP to continue, it gives rise to endless PvP as long as the players are in range of a cloning facility.



Proposed Solution


  1. Remove 1% item decay entirely. Insured items recieve no decay, uninsured item decay remains at 5%.

  2. Institute a stat-penalty on death.

Amplifying Remarks (Assuming implementation of the HAM system described above)


Introduce a DEATH_COUNT variable for all players - identical to the one used for Jedi until just recently (again the code for this should still exist). Modify the decay time on accumulated deaths to 24 hours from time of death. Each undecayed death acts as a fractional multiplier to the fixed value affecting the regeneration of special attack cost. Undecayed deaths can be removed by treatment from a Doctor (a Bacta Tank would be a great implementation).


Upon cloning, all stats are set to 0 / 0 and must regenerate according to the modified (post-death) special regeneration rate.


Example (numbers arbitrary):


Regeneration of special cost is fixed at 100 points per second. After 1 death regeneration drops to 50 points per second. After 2 deaths regeneration drops to 25 points per second.


Treatment by a Doctor removes counted deaths at a rate of 1 per 2 minutes (player is back to normal after 4 minutes treatment) or after 24 hours has passed from the time of death (casual players are therefore not adversely affected).


Justification



  • Players in both PvE and PvP get equitable treatment, a death system that provides temporary penalties but still gives some "sting" (in the form of reduced combat effectiveness).

  • Large community relations boost for getting rid of the disliked 1% decay while keeping the insurance system as a money sink.

  • Reduces the ability to "zerg" (endless engagement if cloned) as the player rapidly becomes combat ineffective after a few deaths. Their HAM pools will not regenerate fast enough after a couple of deaths to participate meaningfully in combat.

Doctor Buffs



Issues



In their current incarnation, Doctor buffs provide multi-thousand point increases in all Health and Action stats and substats for approximately 3 hours. The direct results of the power of these items are:


  1. Encumbrance costs on armour are irrelevant, therefore armour that should cripple the wearer is worn easily;

  2. Weapon special costs are irrelevant, allowing special attacks to be "spammed" one after the other even while wearing full armour;

  3. Regeneration of battle damage to Health and Action is extreme, therefore professions that target those pools are marginalized by their inability to cause enough damage to those pools to matter.

  4. Regeneration of damage in PvE combines with points 1 and 2 to give players the ability to solo nearly anything in the game, destroying the group dynamic and many other core aspects of the game (i.e. money earning potential, commonality of rare loot items, etc.)

Proposed Solution


This has been proposed many times by too many people to cite, but change all doctor buffs to a percentage increase of the base stats (as is the case with entertainer buffs). Cap the maximum possible enhancement at double the base stat (100% increase).


Amplifying Remarks


To account for the lesser status of doctor enhancements, consider making the resources required for buff components less specific (any petrochemical rather than Class 4 petro for instance). The lost earning potential of buffs should be compensated for by the death treatment described above.


Human substats have been bugged for a while now. There used to be racial maximums for human stats as well, but following one patch several months ago all humans became able to migrate all stats to a max of 1100. For sake of balance these caps must be re-implemented.


Other buff types (food and spice) may need to be examined, but it is likely that they will return to the short-term advantages they were originally intended to be. Armour encumbrance vs protection would need to be evaluated during testing, but it is likely that the average player will not be able to wear the highly protective composite armour that is common today, leading to use of other armour types.


Justification



  • Armour encumbrance will have a profound effect on combat. Players will be forced to wear lighter armour or accept heavy costs when using special attacks.

  • Weapon costs will again have meaning, "spamming" specials will not be as easy. It will take longer to kill mobs leading to tougher fights.

  • Professions which target Health and Action are again viable, further de-emphasizing the importance of the Mind pool in combat. The Mind pool is no longer the default lowest pool when buffed.

  • As fights are harder, the requirement for groups will increase. Mission payouts will be balanced again, and rare loot will be less common and need to be divided amongst many.

  • Species' stat advantages will be pronounced again. Wookiee's primary advantage will be highlighted again and justify the penalties. Knowing your enemy's stat weakness will be a tactical advantage.

DOTs



Issues



Combat medics and the proliferation of loot weapons with Damage Over Time attacks have had a detrimental effect on PvP as a whole for months. There is no effective way to prevent a DOT from taking hold and many are so powerful that they will do large amounts of damage before a cure can take hold. To combat this, most successful PvP players are forced to include Doctor skills in their character, leading to a reduction in viable PvP template possibilities.



Proposed solution



Though many have called for a 75% reduction in DOT strength, I believe that a better choice is to provide means by which a player can prevent being affected by DOTs. This can be accomplished by ensuring Chor-No-Hula works and introducing Tailor-crafted protective filters (with limited charges).



Amplifying Remarks



Currently the food Chor-No-Hula cannot be verified as properly reducing the chances of resisting poison or disease. This must either be confirmed as a bug and fixed, or confirmed as working and it's effects increased.


Secondly, Tailors should be given the schematic for a respirator (fits into either the necklace or the eyewear slot - whichever can be worn under armour) that provides up to 50% protection from poison / disease for a limited number of attacks. There is a clothing (coveralls) similar to in-game, as part of the Zicx-Bug-Bomb quest.


Fire type DOTs would need to be evaluated further, however they are less common and typically not as strong and may resolve without specific attention. Fire DOTs will likely achieve new importance in combat however.



Justification


  • Players can attain 50% protection from poison / disease standard, increasing into the 80-90% range for limited durations through use of food. This should reduce the effect of the major DOTs on the battlefield.

  • Tailors are provided with an important renewable income source

  • Players will have a reduced need for Doctor skills to participate in PvP, while retaining their use as an option and keeping Doctors as a valuable addition to a team.

Jedi


Issues


Jedi are a major source of contention within the community. For those concerned about continuity, Jedi are far too visible and act in ways directly contrary to what is portrayed in canon and EU material. For those involved in PvP, Jedi in the Force Ranking system have become predators looking for FRS XP. Jedi are designed to be more powerful than the "normal" character, yet are included in the same endgame, creating balance issues on both sides.


Proposed Solution


Remove Jedi from the GCW proper by awarding no (or negative) FRS XP for defeating "normal" characters. Greatly increase visibility for using Force abilities such that Jedi are encouraged to stay away from populated areas.


Amplifying Remarks


Jedi combat should be versus Jedi only, they would not be concerned with the politics of the galaxy but only with dominance within the Force. Upon removal from the GCW, institute a private, secret war between Light and Dark Jedi. If possible, implement a separate Overt status for Jedi that does not impact on others. The only "normal" character class that engages Jedi should be Bounty Hunters.


BH should be given a couple of abilities directly related to combating low to mid level Jedi (abilities located in the Master box).


On the adventure planets (Endor, Yavin and Dathomir) place a number of structures that may be attacked and owned by FRS Jedi of one faction or the other. The side which owns the most structures gains reductions in the decay of FRS XP for their side. This would be the groundwork for a Jedi vs Jedi endgame completed with the GCW revamp.


These ideas are substatially more time-intensive than others, but can be regarded as the logical conclusion of the Jedi revamp. These notions are still relatively simple in implementation compared to what eventually deserves to be implemented. The band-aid fix here is to remove Jedi from the GCW by reducing FRS XP granted, everything else can wait if required.


Justification



  • Jedi visibility would be reduced somewhat due to the increased ability of BH to hunt them effectively, but the satisfaction of the Jedi community would increase as BH could no longer form "gank squads" to take Jedi down (different, non-factional TEFs).

  • FRS Jedi will no longer farm factioned non-jedi. This relates to an unsavory practice of killing guild members over and over for FRS XP (since non-jedi have no consequence on death).

  • Jedi are no longer directly involved with non-Jedi, and therefore can be made as powerful as desired without sacrificing PvP balance. Factioned non-jedi can be free to go overt without fear of being targets for a superior fighting class.

  • Jedi will not be the superior PvP class, therefore fewer people will try to attain just because they wish to be competitive in PvP.

The GCW


Issues


As stated at the top of the post, the GCW is unsatisfying as there are no objectives. While this will not be fixed by a band-aid, some satisfying pursuits may be implemented to tide the player base over until the GCW re-vamp in the new year (6 months from now by estimation).


Proposed Solution


Again, something proposed many times over. Allow factions to have some means of controlling territory. Player bases currently only serve as targets for raids, relying on the agreement of both sides to continue placing them as content for their opponents. Allow player bases to count towards control of a particular planet.


Amplifying remarks


Place a reasonable cap on the number of player bases allowed on any of the populated worlds (Core worlds, their moons, Dantooine and Lok), say 15 or so. Relax the terrain restrictions on base placement to open up placement areas on difficult terrain worlds (i.e. Corellia, Rori).


Whichever faction places the most bases on a given planet (simple majority) controls that planet. Rewards for planet control may be as simple as those awarded for the Cries of Alderaan Acts - XP bonus for winning side, faction equipment cost reduction for the losing side.


It would be nice to have an overall reward for any side that can manage to control all the planets as well. Unique items available for purchase from faction recruiters or that sort of thing.


Control of planets could have any number of effects beyond the simple rewards above. Effects on travel for the opposing faction, effects on harvesting efficiency for harvesters of the opposing side, various set-piece animations in the NPC cities showing which faction controls the area, etc. Time and resources are the only things limiting this.


Justification



  • Gives players a reason to place and defend bases. The more rewards involved the better the war becomes.

  • If rewards are limited to factioned members of a certain rank it encourages all players to get involved in faction warfare to access these rewards.

  • Gives greater context to the endgame, and gives players a continuing game to play after completing their character advancement.

Summary


In summary, the following items should be implemented in-game ASAP as a band-aid fix for combat and the SWG endgame until such time as a proper revamp can be considered.



  1. Implement the HAM system pushed to Test Center in Jan.

  2. Allow existing stims to heal Mind in the same way they do Health and Action now.

  3. Institute a stat penalty upon death, remove 1% insured decay as a result.

  4. Introduce a Doctor schematic that can mitigate this stat penalty.

  5. Change Doc Buffs to grant a percent increase to a max of double the normal pool value.

  6. Fix Human stats such that they have racial limits again.

  7. Verify anti-DOT foods work

  8. Introduce Tailor schematic for limited use anti-DOT clothing item

  9. Remove FRS Jedi from the GCW (Implement a private war for them if possible)

  10. Allow player bases to contribute to planetary control. Implement bonuses / rewards for controlling planets and an additional bonus / reward for controlling all planets at once.

IMO, this is enough to support the ground game long enough for JtL to take hold and for a proper revamp to be planned. This will give veteran players something to do while waiting, and will start to correct the imbalances occuring in PvE.


It's important to implement something prior to JtL. If there is an influx of new players with the expansion they will become accustomed to the ground game as it is, with no history to tell them otherwise. Changing the game at this point may drive them away again and SWG will have lost it's best hope for retaining prominance in the MMO market (as it could and should do).


Thanks to any and all that contributed to these ideas, there are far too many to acknowledge. Please consider this as more of a summary document of many good ideas rather than one person's lone opinions.

Message Edited by BabyRancor on 07-20-2004 01:18 PM



Jakkin Darkstrider - Master Rifleman/ Master TKA - Sunrunner
"This utopia seems to be more of a Fruitopia"


Combat Balance Proposal Discussion
Jedi Quest System Proposal
Mystra78
Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:25 pm
#1032

Make the mind healable.



Imena ~ Retired CM/Riflewoman / Mystra ~ Retired Jedi

TulasiKid
Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:00 pm
#1033

Allow for the use of some specials on animal mounts to encourage mounted attacks, and decrease tendency for animal to turn and fight every time it's attacked at close range.



Tulasi Kid
Daikyo
Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:31 pm
#1034

50-75% reduction on ALL buffs.
ranger_one
Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:20 pm
#1035

Okie, here's my 2 pesos....

Adjust the species restrictions on combat armor.

Eg: Trandos not able to wear boots, SOE having to create new armor just for Wooks, etc.

Proposal - stick with the current setup for armor restrictions, but give those affected species certain natural passive defenses when they wear specific armor types (that would have restictions), that way it gives them a fighting chance on any battlefield.



Xentarus
Galaxy-trotting Elder Jedi
{##|||'}}}}}}g}{ggggggggggggggggggggggg)


snipaho
Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:44 pm
#1036

Make faction armor craftable like all other armorandhave similar or better resists as composite.



- Anakis Seska -
Tactical-Medic
Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:04 am
#1037

Simply equilibrate all professions as you said!
alleamckeen
Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:04 am
#1038

Hire more dev,

Fix combat balance BEFORE JTL

Listening Players BEFORE money
Getoc
Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:25 am
#1039

Forget about the 75% damage reduction for Cm's because it will reduce the class to useless.

Protection always comes at a price and so should there be a price for high level poison and desease resistance .

As for Cm i have some constructive changes that might balance them very well without making them useless.


1. Fix poison / desease resistance food . it will grant around +20 resistance .

2. Install the poison damage reduction spice .. it should work somehow like damage migration 2 . time around 15-20 mins

3. remove spider venom from the game , or nerf it so that there will be a max power 90 on the venom not 274 like it is now

4. grant every profession a skill called poison/desease resistance at master around +10 .

5. give poison / desease resistance to species , leave zabrak and human outof this and grant mon caland rodain a +10there , trandoshan +20 and wookie +30 . this will also give some love to classes which are left out because of restriction


So for example a wookie master tka / master fencer / master brawlerwould end with food at around +80 poison/desease resistance . everyone knows how hard a guy with +80 KD defence is to knockdown . he can also use the damage reduction spice to reduce the damage for the unlikely moment a poison will work on him .










Get'toc : Elder Jedi - Farstar day 1 player - Proud of wearing the 'Teras Kasi Elder Titile' to honor the coolest profession there has ever been in SWG . Black Epsilon Pilot Ace .

Xanea : Trader - Master Shipdesigner and RSF Pilot Ace / Xaneas Shipyard at Arakeen on Lok (closed atm because of spaceloot sickness)

Sharres : Spy by nature and RSF Pilot Ace , Smuggler Pilot Ace , Black Epsilon Pilot Ace and acutal Corsec Pilot Ace
Getoc
Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:29 am
#1040

Make damage stimpacks which are given in the singing mountain clan themepark crafteable so that mind can be healed. keep the meduse where it is so that at least pharma 4 is required



Get'toc : Elder Jedi - Farstar day 1 player - Proud of wearing the 'Teras Kasi Elder Titile' to honor the coolest profession there has ever been in SWG . Black Epsilon Pilot Ace .

Xanea : Trader - Master Shipdesigner and RSF Pilot Ace / Xaneas Shipyard at Arakeen on Lok (closed atm because of spaceloot sickness)

Sharres : Spy by nature and RSF Pilot Ace , Smuggler Pilot Ace , Black Epsilon Pilot Ace and acutal Corsec Pilot Ace
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