Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Jedi Punchlist Response 6/24/04
Thunderheart wrote:
Ability to drop the Force Sensitive Skills once we hit Jedi Knight.
I’m sorry, but this is not going to change.We’ve discussed this a lot and basically what you are asking is to have the ability to “drop the novice profession” to have more skill points to spend on elite profession skills. No profession has this ability. It would be like being able to surrender Novice Marksman Skills in order to have more points to spend on Pistoleer, Commando or any of the other elite professions that are built on top of the novice profession.
TH,
Novice professions are pelimanary paths to a more detailed profession. Brawler for an example, at novice you gain skills that carry you through the entire profession (intimidate) As you progress up your chosen professions line you get defence and weapon speed, the ability to yeild more types of weapons and specials to help you through.
Force sensitve skills add nothing to enhance a jedi. We make the best out of the 2 and 1/2 professions worth of skills points we have. Force sensitive skills need to aid a jedi. As it stands now they do more to aid the pre-iniatiate than anything else.
By your own logic Jedi having force sensitve skills is equivalant to lvling unarmed4 to Master riflemen. The two have no direct benifit to eachother.
A possible solution to this if the dev. team is hell bent on standing their groud would be to have force sensitive skills have a "Jedi Only" bonus. Keep the system as it is for pre iniates, but when a person unlocks the force sensitive skills yeild more detailed and jedi orientated bonus,
Thunderheart wrote:
There will be two quest series to choose from, one for the Light Side and one for the Dark Side. Completion of the Trials will give the Jedi a Force Rank of zero as well as a new robe and will allow them to begin the progress through the Jedi Ranks to become one of the most powerful Light Jedi or Dark Jedi in the game. This is the end of the Jedi PvE advancement series. A Jedi may choose to remain here if they wish. Existing 4-4-4-4 Guardians will begin the game where this path ends. This to me even means we should giving Rank 0 to start. So why do all the G-4444 after long months of grinding on the old system, and then waiting around 3-6 months for revamp, have to now spend another 2-6 weeks camping and running around to do Knight Trials.
The reasoning for this change can be found in Keldarin’s follow up on the issue here:
Please fix the double death penalty (losing 2 deaths on disconnect+killed)This happens with some regularity and is really going to hurt people if they are losing XP each death pre-knight.
Fixed.The penalty is only calculated on cloning now.
Does this mean that if a Jedi gets a Doc with rez kits follow him, he would not have any death penalty?
Thunderheart wrote:
Ability to drop the Force Sensitive Skills once we hit Jedi Knight.
I’m sorry, but this is not going to change.We’ve discussed this a lot and basically what you are asking is to have the ability to “drop the novice profession” to have more skill points to spend on elite profession skills. No profession has this ability. It would be like being able to surrender Novice Marksman Skills in order to have more points to spend on Pistoleer, Commando or any of the other elite professions that are built on top of the novice profession.
Tricerix wrote:
It really is funny how you people actually think you are fooling someone with this nonsense that the lesser starting professions really do anything. The novice marksman skill does almost completely nothing for commando, or bounty hunter, and the scout skill does absolutely nothing for bounty hunter. The small bonuses; i.e. +15 ranged defense, are negligible compared to the numberous scores of points gained in the elite profession. The starting professions are like what a physicyst has to do to become "enlightened". Sure college algebra is pointless to someone who has an early background in quantum physics.
I mean sheesh, if you want to have the biggest fish in the tank, you will have to feed off of the bottom for a long time.........
Wait wait wait. Let me see if I get what you are saying before I start laughing uncontrollably. You mean to tell me that any skill mods Novice Marksman gives you is meaningless compared to what you get in all of the Commando or BH professions? Lets think this through....
Master Marksman gives you +15 Ranged Defense. Without it, a Master Commando would have +5 Ranged Defense. With Commando's needing to be close range to use specials, every Commando would drop like a sack of you-know-what 10m before they could use their precious flamethrowers. How about the effect of Marksman on BH? Hmmm... Master Marksman gives you Pistol and Carbine Accuracy of +60 each and both weapons speed of +30. Without that, BH's would only have an accuracy of +60 and speed of +50 for both weapons. Slightly better than a Master Marksman. But those skills are only negligible bonuses, right? And scout not helping BH's? Two words: Terrain Negotiation. And camps were helpful too, back in the day.
You're arguement is null and void my friend, the starting professions are the very basis and contribute much to the elite professions. The point is, FS skills do not. You spend points to get towards a profession, EVERY point you spend will aid you on your way. We're being forced to give up 24 of ours.
How about Commandos learn 24 points worth of entertainer? I think it's a good idea.
Theo
PS And your quantum physicists not needing Alegbra analogy was just horrible. You know I'm in my senior year of college working on large programming projects. The first data structure I EVER learned in high school was an If-Then statement is BASIC. Guess what I still use?
Thunderheart wrote:
Allow people to board shuttles even if in combat On TC2/3 Jedi with force run can engage an overt and dance out of range without attacking to grief them into not being able to shuttle.
No, we cannot allow this.It opens up too many opportunities for grief and PvP exploits.
Tricerix wrote:
Sorry, you absolutely didn't get it staraight, not even a little..........programmer lol. You basically told me that +15 to ranged defense actually does something. Try putting things together.........letters into words, words into phrases, phrases into sentances(requires thought)...........You basically are saying that a novice marksman will stand a better chance than an escape pod refugess who lands with nothing but a cdef pistol. Of course that is correct, but my point is that the commando skill, bh skill, fencer skill, swordsman skill.........(look close you may see a pattern develope).....adds so much more to your character then the base skill that the base skill is worthless after earning the elite skill. Thus if a bh could just drop scout and marksman and pick up, say rifleman/fencer instead he would be uber powerful. why stop there, maybe once you learn a skill you should just be able to drop that skill, retrieve your points and still keep the skill mods from your previous skill. If jedi should get super power at the level anakin was when he was picked up in episode 1, then shouldn't I be able to craft all the clothes in galaxies, swoop bikes, weapons, have the skill of pistolier, bounty hunter, commando...........hey I earned it didn't I(it is annoying when someone else wants an advantage the same way you do)
First of all, I expected nothing less than insults. Second, how can you not see this? A Master BH or Commando without the foundation of Marksman would be a worthless character. Thats what BHs and Commandos are... elite Marksmen! Now I don't think I've clarified my position and that's probably my fault. I don't believe that we should be able to surrender out FS skills for more Jedi skills. I've never stated that as my position and I hope you didn't take it that way. I think the FS skills are a good idea. HOWEVER, as currently implemented, they are useless to a Jedi. Such as I insinuated that Musician skills would be a pointless prerequisite to Commando. If the Devs made the skillmods from the FS skills benefit Jedi as well as normal characters, I would be more than happy to choose 24 and go along my merry way up to Jedi Knighthood. But youhave said that Novice Marksman skills are useless to BH's and Commandos. I don't see how you can even defend a position as weak as that.They are made stronger by their elite skills true, butwhere does the strength come from? It comes from building upon the foundation of skills thatis Master Marksman. As the numbers show,BH without Master Marksman, would pretty muchBE a Master Marksman.
I think we may be having two different 'conversations' here, I'm just not sure what yours is about.
Theo