Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one? (II)
NawaraVenXO
Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:35 pm
#79
A mysterious aspect is a good idea, of course.. but what can you do to ensure that it's not just going to be another Silent Profession? I've been working since my Christmas holocron to unlock, so a sense of mystery isn't high on my list at this point. Some of the missions should have certain prerequisites to keep everyone and their pet bantha from doing the quests and becoming Force-Sensitive. Maybe different missions for different classes. Crafters might get a mission where they have to assemble something for a mysterious stranger and during the mission, they seem to sense more from the item/person than they normally would. Maybe include some sort of puzzle/riddle as part of the quests. Just don't make the path to unlock fall along the lines of "Loot these random items from various NPCs across the galaxy, kill this guy, and deliver this package. Viola! Jedi!" I've been patiently grinding for 7 months and I'd like this quest system to give me not only a sense of closure.. but Force-Sensitivity ina timely fashion.
Stardrom
Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:37 pm
#80
I think it should beknown. If it was a mystery, as soon as we figure it out, it'll be all over the forums in a heartbeat.
Plus, making it a mystery, will turn the jedi forums into that place where everyone posts some kinda BS about how 'they figured it out' and its actually another stupid-crock-of-BSpost.
Bamsee
Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:39 pm
#81
JustG wrote:
(Now with 75% more info!)
There are many stages in the path to becoming a Jedi...
The first among them is becoming Force Sensitive. Once you become Force Sensitive you can choose to continue on the path to becoming a Jedi or not. The path to becoming a Jedi will be a long and dangerous one.
Publish 10 is focussing largely on the path FROM Force Sensitive TO becoming a Jedi... this is going to be very quest and story-driven, and will take some effort and time on the part of the players. This path will be directed, and you will know how to get through, but it will also contain an element of mystery.
My question has to do with the step before all of this... with how you actually become Force Sensitive.
The question to continue discussing is this:
Should the method of becoming Force Sensitive (not the path from Force Sensitivity to Jedi) be a mysterious, unknown mechanic orone that is visible and known to everyone?
Thanks for the continued feedback!!
Well the problem is how could this be done and not be some kind of grind and more where it is a natural evolution. I really do notsee much of a way to do this without there being some type of grinding done to become force sensitive. From doing quests to professions to missions it's some type of grind. The best policy at the moment would be to have you first becomeaware of the force by having a timer. This timer would be 3 months worth ofaccount time. That gives new players enough time to learn the game and the ropes and be able to get around by themselves fairly easily. This would only involve those who are new or have not at least masteredone profession since it has already been stated by yourselves that mastery of professions up until publish 10 will count towards your force sensitive questing. For those who already have at least mastered one profession just stick some dorky cloaked figures in a few towns to allow them to convert into quest format. A timer grind at least isn't a profession grind and makes the appearence of being natural rather then forced.
PyscoJuggalo
Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:40 pm
#82
It should be completely mysterious.
Though holocrons/hologrinding have done ahorrid amount ofdamage to the game, it is better to make sure flood is stopped then to keep the torrent going.
lund0529
Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:42 pm
#83
I vote for mysterious, and along the lines of paying attention to, or interacting with your environment. Maybe different for different people. (I know it'd be hard to track) Just don't make it like the hero quests where you have people camping for certain spawns, or certain loot items. (/shout WTA Force Sensitivity Orb Shard #12. Current bid 12M)
Once upon a time, I came upon a desert nomad being attacked by Thugs, and stepped in on his side. The thugs were defeated, and he wouldn't talk to me. I thought for sure that would get me towards force sensitive. This was before we knew it was professions.
Go back to the pre-holocron jedi boards and you'll find tons of ideas.
You could base it on certain types or levels of faction (call it Karma), "fun" activities like fishing or sightseeing/exploring that don't relate directly to character advancement, dedication to your profession (good for the AS who's been an AS for 6 months straight). Just look at all the old theories.
Unfortunately, since there are so many Jedi that got there grinding profs, any attempt to make it rare or special at this point is probably in vain... maybe it should be known. Make it mysterious and start a new server that uses that system? It's kinda too late now for the existing servers unless you want todo a "Jedi Crackdown" and start it over again. (Existing Jedi would not be happy)
For me, at least, seeing so many Jedi all over the place, and knowing how much xp, loot camping, and creditsit takes to advance has kind of soured any reasons I wanted it. I wanted it when it was rare and mysterious, and wanted to do it for fun, not loot or pwning in PvP.
swgmongo
Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:42 pm
#84
Did we forget what happened when everyone figured out that mastering professions opened up their jedi slot?
It needs to be secret... totally secret. Only then will people get to know one another and play this game as opposed to grind it for Jedi.
OHMSS225
Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:44 pm
#85
Look at the early theories that players had on how to unlock, and follow those. The first theories they came up with were the ways they wanted to become force sensitive- what they thought would be fun.
Starcloud
Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:45 pm
#86
The starting point should be VISIBLE and KNOWN. It can be individual to each player. Hints should be given on how to proceed from there, and feedback should be given on how far along you are.
The system to FS should be quest-based, *and* with the option to complete the entire series without *once* getting into combat. It should involve thinking. It should involve making the world feel more complex than it does right now. It should involve negotiation, and arbitration between two sides at least at one point. Ideally, it would involve moral choices... no matter how you answer, you get credit for completing it, but how you answer might determine what your next objective would be, with the Dark Side choices being more violent and exploitative than the light side choices.
But above all else, it should be VISIBLE and KNOWN.
RougeSmuggler
Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:50 pm
#87
JustG wrote:
(Now with 75% more info!)
There are many stages in the path to becoming a Jedi...
The first among them is becoming Force Sensitive. Once you become Force Sensitive you can choose to continue on the path to becoming a Jedi or not. The path to becoming a Jedi will be a long and dangerous one.
Publish 10 is focussing largely on the path FROM Force Sensitive TO becoming a Jedi... this is going to be very quest and story-driven, and will take some effort and time on the part of the players. This path will be directed, and you will know how to get through, but it will also contain an element of mystery.
My question has to do with the step before all of this... with how you actually become Force Sensitive.
The question to continue discussing is this:
Should the method of becoming Force Sensitive (not the path from Force Sensitivity to Jedi) be a mysterious, unknown mechanic orone that is visible and known to everyone?
Thanks for the continued feedback!!
I'm confused. I thought that the first Jedi publish would focus on Actual Jedi. And then the second Jedi Publish would focus on the path to being FS and then after that a Jedi. Does this mean that the path to unlock FS won't be untill the next publish? Does this mean that there will be THREE publishes dedicated to Jedi?
Because honestly, not everyone is a Jedi, nor wants to be one. Instead of focusing on a minority(a minority that shouldn't even exist in this timeframe), you should get to the professions that have been waiting since the beggining. BHs, Smugglers, Entertainers, Squad Leaders, etc, fix the GCW.but most importantly, the combat balance.
The Combat Balance is the only thing that can save this game. Being a Jedi won't save the game. (Especially when everyone and their dog is a Jedi, then the specialness of the profession will be lost). Right now people can solo pretty much everything. "Solo groups" run rampant on Dantoooine. Beyond just getting more money, there is NO reason to group at all. It just doesn't exist. Some specials are excellent, and others just suck. The Combat Balancehelps EVERYONE, unlike these Jedi publishes which just help a few.
I don't mean to rant, but honestly, how much time are you going to dedicate to Jedi? Why not just call this Jedi Galaxies Online right now.
-red
ArjunThakur
Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:51 pm
#88
Mysterious and Unknown.
Although current Jedi will say Mysterious and Unknown, and non-Jedi will say Known path, so this is a pretty loaded question 
Message Edited by ArjunThakur on 07-10-2004 02:06 PM
CaseytheHutt
Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:51 pm
#89
I've been playing this game since months before it went live. I'm a consistent player, but I'm a casual player (no more than 2-3 hours at a time several times a week). From the beginning, SOE repeatedly made it clear that the path to Jedi would be accessible to casual players as well as hard core - it would just take longer.
The profession-based approach was a complete and utter failure to deliver on that claim. Even if it had stayed just 5 professions (which is in dispute), that still would have only given me a 50/50 shot at unlocking after mastering 18 professions. For a casual player like myself, mastering 18 profession on top of actually functioning and having friends in the game is about a 2-year endeavor. And that's assuming I'm in the better half of the 50/50 shot. That's just completely unreasonable for me to even attempt.
So now it's going to be quest based and I think "Finally, maybe there will be a system in place that's at least worth my time to try to work towards." If you take that system and make it a mystery as to how to unlock into it then I guess I'm just screwed again? I mean really, what am I supposed to do. Spend the small amount of playtime I get every week randomly roaming around talking to everyone I meet? Yeah, that's fun. And what if a significant portion of what it takes to unlock is something that I already did a year ago? Are you going to have kept track of that and give me credit for it? Doubtful.
Jedi is supposed to be a reward for dedicated, veteran players. Yet you continue to try to create artificial, external methods for unlocking that encourage non-veteran players with lots of time to rush to unlock while casual veteran players get to watch and wish. Why not hinge force sensitivity on the kinds of things that people would naturally do over time as they play the game anyway and make it have so many potential factors that NOBODY can do anything to TRY to unlock, but anybody who plays the game for a while will inevitably unlock after 6-12 months. You know, the way you said it was going to work to begin with before changing your mind and making a system that made no sense whatsoever and made the game miserable for almost everybody?
The profession-based approach was a complete and utter failure to deliver on that claim. Even if it had stayed just 5 professions (which is in dispute), that still would have only given me a 50/50 shot at unlocking after mastering 18 professions. For a casual player like myself, mastering 18 profession on top of actually functioning and having friends in the game is about a 2-year endeavor. And that's assuming I'm in the better half of the 50/50 shot. That's just completely unreasonable for me to even attempt.
So now it's going to be quest based and I think "Finally, maybe there will be a system in place that's at least worth my time to try to work towards." If you take that system and make it a mystery as to how to unlock into it then I guess I'm just screwed again? I mean really, what am I supposed to do. Spend the small amount of playtime I get every week randomly roaming around talking to everyone I meet? Yeah, that's fun. And what if a significant portion of what it takes to unlock is something that I already did a year ago? Are you going to have kept track of that and give me credit for it? Doubtful.
Jedi is supposed to be a reward for dedicated, veteran players. Yet you continue to try to create artificial, external methods for unlocking that encourage non-veteran players with lots of time to rush to unlock while casual veteran players get to watch and wish. Why not hinge force sensitivity on the kinds of things that people would naturally do over time as they play the game anyway and make it have so many potential factors that NOBODY can do anything to TRY to unlock, but anybody who plays the game for a while will inevitably unlock after 6-12 months. You know, the way you said it was going to work to begin with before changing your mind and making a system that made no sense whatsoever and made the game miserable for almost everybody?
Twiggy_Gorath
Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:52 pm
#90
Some more thoughts on the 'force sensitivity points' (fsp's) idea I introduced in the original thread:
- The resulting system will by necessity, have both mysterious and known factors
- Assumption: Mystery in a video game involves randomness (random values where needed)
- Assumption: Values that are not randomized will be mapped and eventually exploited fully by players
Now, with these simple assumptions guiding the aquisition of fsp's,some other things that come to mind are this (and based on my original posting for retaining some mystery in the process of becoming/developing FS):
- Randomize the characters predisposition to light/dark at creation (convert existing char objects in-place)
- The "Master" NPC should be known
- The Guide or Helper NPC's a player char would utilize can be randomized. CharA might be predisposed to light, but be instructed to follow an initially dark-tinged NPC questing progression until working themselves out of said 'dark' fsp range. Vice-versa for CharB initially predisposed to dark.
- Each Guide or Helper NPC can also be used to randomize the characters fsp aquisition choices...
I really think that by randomizing certain elements of enabling FS, you can have a system that has both known elements and a good degree of mystery (randomness) for each charater that chooses to partake in it.
It's comforting to see that alot of others are of the same opinion I am concerning ways to gain fsp towards your desired path. Alot of the ideas promote community involvment (which is a GOOD thing for a MMOG IMHO), require time to be spent in the game working towards an end (which it can be argued also leads to community involvement), and will also help people become attached to their avatar and able to better identify with it througheach one'sunique journey.
Thanks for sparking a great little fire JustG
Twig
Yohkoh
Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:52 pm
#91
It should be a known way. Not easy but known. It will become known anyway with spoiler sites so just make it known.