Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Developing a Solution for the Faction Base Issue
FaithKeeper wrote:
What about if i am in a group and one of the other players attacks a base but i didnt want to get involved iwth the fight and i run into my house, then i am not allowed because i have TEF but i didnt ask for it. soo why punish me because of someone else doing that?
There is no quick answer.
And why is your house that close to the base? Coincidence? Hrmn...
Have you seen this attack technique used in-game?
Yes
Do you feel this is a good and/or reasonable solution?
Its okay, and I would go for it. However I would also scale a no build zone around faction bases that prevents neutrals and enemy faction members from placing homes within that radius. The larger the base, the larger the radius. Obviously this would work both ways. It would also require that larger faction bases NOT have neutral/enemy facion homes nearby when placed. This would allow a form of territorial control for players through the use of faction bases.
Solutions easier then that. Once a factional base is places it is turned into a municiple zone, Only that person or members of that PA may place buildings of any kind with in a 200 meter area of the base. Add an option to allow other PA's to have permission to place structures with in that area.
TEF should change, its not well put together.
Entering a house or dragging somone into a house that has factional TEF should result in that house gaining a TEF flag, IE opening it up to the public. Think about it this way, the empire doen'rt care if its your house if your shooting from it your an enemy and will be delt with.
Housing being locked was to protect those inside, to negate that explotiability that people have been using this feature for, give the house TEF.
The solution should be simple: Never mind the no build zone, etc. around faction bases because people can exploit this too by preemptively placing structures (cheap houses) in strategic areas.
Just make structures public if a combatant runs into them. Simple, easy fix. If I were to attack a faction base, I would expect the troops to mow down any structure that I were to hide in, and since making private structures attackable,will just lead to greifing, which it will. the simple solution is to make these structures public while a combatant enters them. It's not like someone needs the privacy because they are taking a shower inside their private house. /smirk
If you have seen this attack used, what are your experiences? N/A
Do you feel this is a good and/or reasonable solution?
I like the solution as it is presented however have a couple of concerns:
1. given a little setup a player could make the house public and then ban people from entering. It wouldn't be perfect and would take some time to set up but would be nearly as effective unless there is something I'm missing here.
2. A TEF can be picked up from quite a few other things other than PvP. Unless this is going to be just triggered by a TEF related to the GCW then there are going to be a lot of players who have nothing to do with the GCW sitting out on their front porches waiting for a timer to count down. There is a significant potential to irritate/incinvenience a large number of people who could care less about Rebels and Imps shooting it out.
Another question: Faction bases are structures. If this "fix"prevents invading players with TEF's from entering private structures, will it keep invaders from entering the base itself to take it over / kill remaining defenders?
Invading players SHOULD be able to freely run in and out of the base they are taking over. The defenders of the base should not be able todo the exact same thing you are trying toprevent the invaders from doingby running into their own base(where the defenders cannot go because of a TEF) to hide/get healed, nor should they be given an extra 5 minutes to regroup while a TEF wears off.
To say otherwise would allow the defenders to keep all invaders out of the base simply by (1) tabbing to target one, (2) run into doorway and shoot once, (3) run back inside, (4) that player has a new TEF, (5) rinse and repeat with a different player.
So far I’ve seen two different scenarios where a person abuses/exploits the private housing system in the GCW.
1) A doctor using revive and attacking player(s) can take down an enemy faction HQ with little chance of retribution through use of a private residence.
2) A combat medic using poison, or other DOT applies it to an opposing overt player, and hides within a private residence.
Instead of doing wacky stuff that has a good chance of massively inconveniencing players who get TEFs, from PCs, NPCs, or otherwise, lets just attack these two problems.
To prevent abuse one, allow faction HQs to have a toggle option to forbid placement of new structures within 256m of the HQ. This will prevent players from simply plopping down a house outside a factional HQ to attack it easily, but will still allow other friendly players to use housing in the area legitimately.
To prevent abuse two, any player that enters a residence/PA hall/factional HQ will remove all DOTs and status effects applied by them. Sure, it won’t solve a player from jumping inside their house and back taking pot shots, but it sure will fix the combat medic problem.
Although I’m not privy to the SWG codebase, these two solutions seem to be a bit easier to implement. Plus they are not as inconveniencing or exploitable as allowing players to blow up structures, or walking into private residences if some TEF flag gets thrown, or even, heaven forbid, making a player have to sit back and twiddle their thumbs for 10 minutes because some swooper or crazed durni took a potshot at them.
Strikke wrote:
OK. Can you also add a TEF indicator, so we know when we HAVE a TEF (well, so that we know BEFORE we are killed)?
I support this!! I never know when i have a TEF or not... kinda frustrating if i have to go to a Rebel city...
I ran into an issue where, the person I was chasing dived inside his house and then sent me a tell saying "come get me the place is public!"
"Nice of him" says I, only to find that to get in the place required a 15000 credit entry fee, thus circumventing the free public access to boot his griefing behind as Im sure as hell not going to pay 15k just to sock it to some little twerp band Im pretty sure noone else is either.
Just thought you should be aware that a public house with a huge entry fee is an easy exploit to get around your proposals.
What WILL work is not being able to enter a house at all with a TEF.
You initiate combat, run into a house...
1. The structure is public for the duration of combat.
2. All entry fees are waived for the combatants.
Dunno if this has been suggested yet, since i didnt take the time to read all the posts, but why not put a no build zone around the Faction base (at a distance greater than weapon or turret range, say 80m) so that no one can build around it. This will also prevent an exploit i've seen planned for the player cities patch, where a group is planning on building their city around their base, then banning anybody from the opposite faction who comes near. if no buildings can exist within 80m all the problems are solved.
Okay everyone, been giving some thought to it. Hopefully the devs will consider it.
People should be able to "run and hide." That makes it realistic instead of constant macro, push f1-12 combos. It actually requires the person to give chase, use buildings to advantage, etc. However, I propose this: If a tef player enters a private house and locks the door behind him, give the pursuers a chance to continue the chase. Give a "break forcefield" command, or something. (I'll leave it to the devs to make up a snappy name). Once a tef player enters a private house, that house becomes an Overt building and can now take damage from PCs. Hitpoints if you will. Once hitpoints reach zero, the house can be entered and the end of the fight can continue. It ends the whole issue of someone being immune for ever, AND gives the player who ran away a chance to break away. (Consider for a moment all the people that have been gunned down by 10 overts and they were soloing. A house is their only defense).
Also, the damage to the house will have to be repaired by the owner. This is to make it fair. I think it's all too often faction players think being in a faction should be a piece of cake. This brings a concept of "you aid and abide the enemy, your property can be attacked." It's realistic. Homes that are used by a faction are faction aiding. AND to make it even more fun, it introduces a concept of warfare for sieging a house. if people want to take out a poisoning CM, or Burning commando bad enough, they get their squads together and break in. It's worth it, and teaches people to make sure their homes are either open to all, private, or factional.
If you choose to attack someone, you're in the war. As is everything that belongs to you. Let me know what you think of this please people. The devs are human. They get ideas. We get ideas. Let's see if we can't all just make the game the ultimate ever.