Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IT 6-6: Imperial Crackdown: Some changes made based on In-Test Feedback
aaaaaaarrrgh wrote:Anybody else find it kind of odd that CM poisons and diseases aren't contraband?/P>
Uh, no.
Amazing... now people are suggesting that the Devs consider taking an entire profession away from PvE playing rebels!
Why not make ALL armor and weapons, regardless of slicing, contraband? In EU, they actually were restricted; you needed a pretty good reason to be walking around with either--simply having the skill (i.e., SWG "certification") to use a weapon didn't give you the right to wield it.
But, oh--that's right. This is a MMORPG, and combat is a major part of it. Just as they changed continuity by allowing someone to be shot 10+ times before being incapped (in SW, getting hit by a single blaster bolt is enough to take anyone out of action), they decided to allow everyone to own and publicly use a gun and armor.
So for those that keep attempting to bring in "continuity" and "realism" as justification for forcing rebel PvEers into PvP, please don't ignore all the other things that can still be done to "improve" then game by more closely following continuity and what "makes sense."
First and foremost in my mind is letting covert rebels attack overt imperials. How about that becomes the "Rebel Uprising" publish in a couple months?
No reason to consider affects on gameplay--anyone overt should expect to be PvPing at any time, and it makes sense and fits continuity. And, of course, imperial players won't be able to provide input, as this would be the Rebel Uprising, not the Imperial Uprising.
Hlicalanthe wrote:
As much as you think that's relevant, it isn't.
Actually, it is. The specific point of this publish is to make life easier for the imperials and harder for the rebels. To see otherwise is biased in and of itself.
The "Imperial" crackdown is so named only because it is the Imperials who are cracking-down. However, the crackdown affects rebel players just as much, if not moreso, than imperial players. As such, rebel players have every right to provide input into this change, and to have that input considered just as seriously as input from imperial players.
Ifmost rebel players had their way then there wouldn't even be a crackdown. You can give your input all you want, but if you think that all of these petty ideas obviously designed to turn the tables on the imperials (Example: All rebelsshould be covert and attack an allovertEmpire! Heh heh) should be considered seriously, then you're missing the point of the publish. To have rebels crying foul could almost be considered a victory on the dev's part.
That you feel it's acceptable to ignore rebel input simply because this is the "Imperial" crackdown only proves that you want this change because of the benefits it brings imperial players--not because it will make the game more enjoyable for all.
The only thing I've proven is that I don't think rebels should get angry if they don't have as big a say in a matter that is not designed to be in their interests. Once again, it's called the Imperial freaking crackdown. Did you expect it to be a walk in the park for rebels?
But please, continue to shove all the words in my mouth you want; whatever helps you sleep better at night.
Bravo! Keep posting, please. I love it when imperial players post such blatantly prejudiced comments.
Stick your nose up a little higher; I don't think you've been condescending enough yet.
TheMDude wrote:
Actually, it is. The specific point of this publish is to make life easier for the imperials and harder for the rebels. To see otherwise is biased in and of itself.
Ah! We finally see where the problem lies. You're working under false information! The purpose of the publish isn't "to make life easier for the imperials and harder for the rebels." It's to more fully immerse players in the oppressive Empire. At first glance, these may appear equivalent; but I assure you, they're not. It's entirely possible to immerse everyone in the oppressiveness of the Empire without catering to one faction over another, or one playstyle over another (i.e., PvP over PvE).
If you continue to insist on the validity your above claim, please provide a reference to a red-name post in which that is explicitly stated to be the intention of this publish.
Ifmost rebel players had their way then there wouldn't even be a crackdown. You can give your input all you want, but if you think that all of these petty ideas obviously designed to turn the tables on the imperials (Example: All rebelsshould be covert and attack an allovertEmpire! Heh heh) should be considered seriously, then you're missing the point of the publish. To have rebels crying foul could almost be considered a victory on the dev's part.
Again, you're working under false information. "Most" rebels aren't against an Imperial crackdown (i.e., being more fully immersed in the oppressiveness of the Empire). We're against being forced into PvP simply for using items that others can use.
The overwhelming response from Imperial players is: You agreed to be PvP by choosing sides; either get over it, or leave. Under those guidelines, I propose that the devs allow covert rebels to attack overt imperials. It fits the same mold; please explain why that shouldn't be taken seriously. If you give an honest answer, I'm sure you'll find it equally applicable to why the penalty in this crackdown for covert rebels is equally laughable.
The only thing I've proven is that I don't think rebels should get angry if they don't have as big a say in a matter that is not designed to be in their interests. Once again, it's called the Imperial freaking crackdown. Did you expect it to be a walk in the park for rebels?
Actually, if I may quote your prior post: "mmaughme wrote: Imperial input, only. Why are you ignoring Rebel input?" to which you responded, "Because it isn't the rebel crackdown."
You didn't just say rebels shouldn't have "as big a say;" you implied that they shouldn't have any say.
Even ignoring that distinction, you're still wrong in thinking we should have any less say. As I already pointed out, the crackdown affects rebels even more than imperials, so we have every right to have our voices heard. The day a change is implemented for imperials that has no affect whatsoever on rebels is the day rebels won't need to have input. But any time anything is implemented that affects gameplay for others, regardless as to which faction is "named" in the update, all affected factions/players/professions/etc have every right to have their opinions heard and seriously considered.
Stick your nose up a little higher; I don't think you've been condescending enough yet.
How's this: Kudos for that post, in which you acknowledge that this crackdown will actually hurt a large group of players (i.e., covert rebels), rather than continuing to pretend that you support this for reasons of continuity or realism. Again, bravo!
TMascara wrote:
This whole time we are playing in the Star Wars saga is crucial that you shouldnt be able to openly declare you are a rebel. The empire is stronger than ever and it would be suicide to step out and scream, "I AM A REBEL." The concept behind the rebel is to be secretive, hidden. If the game already is at a point where a rebel can run freely and openly in an imperial controlled city, then this game has lost its who ideal. The same goes for an imperial to run to a rebel controlled area screaming that they are for the Empire.
Exactly my point. Rebels infiltrating an imperial site or working out of underground networks in cities never openly announce themselves as rebels to imperials, so it makes perfect sense to allow covert rebels to attack overt imperials.
The only overt rebel (i.e., uniformed) should be at a rebel base or on a rebel starship with the fleet; all rebels "in the field" should be covert, and able to attack any imperial targets, npc or player, at any time. Technological superiority is the Empire's advantage; the element of surprise is the Alliance's.
This fits the Imperial players' justification--that of fitting continuity and realism--for the covert rebel penalty.
At least with what we're getting on Thursday (no matter how many people howl about it), you can get aroundscans by not having contraband items. Your idea is simply for every covert Rebel to always have a chance to get the drop on overt Imperials. Which is an idea I consider pretty ironic coming from somebody who has said that he's against PVP.
In the end it doesn't matter though, being that we had a system like that before. It didn't work, and it was removed.
Taking the risk that you'll againtell me to prove the obvious, this publish is going to do a lot of good for the Empire and the game. Finally the rebels will have something to *rebel* against. There will be more incentives to join the Empire instead of joining the side who won in ROTJ. Factions will start tomean more to people than just clubs to join because all of your friends are there, the rebels won, or the person just likes being evil. It's a given that in the future, this crackdown (if it's even as horrible as it's being made out to be)will be relaxed or countered with a rebel love publish. If you can't get over the idea that joining a faction can put you at risk of PvP, then fine. We will never see eye to eye. I, however, even as a primarily PvE player cannot see how a game based on Star Wars can exist without war.
I am done with this 'discussion.' I will not allow myself to further argue or even consider the opinions of somebody so inclined to belittle and insultthosewith differing opinions.
Needless to say I did not read all 31 pages of this post.
I had heard of the crackdown and did not know much about it. Reading this post at lunch today (page 1) I think its fantastic. I am a rebel (captain i think been awhile) and I NEVER PvP. I hate PvP in a MMORPG setting. And STILL I think this is an awesome change.
It will make the game feel like star wars. Mounts didn't and all the CH and oldnon-CH with GM and Rancors didn't.... vehicles helped a bit and droids are being revamped that will help... but this, to me means something.
As it is now I run around and do my thing and when I see a few ST pop up I laugh because I am covert. Sometimes I run up and /slap one just for kicks.
Now I do not fully know how this new system works, I do not know if there will be a warning when you are about to get scanned or you will get a quick system message and a TEF/Overt status, but I know that from now on as I run around and grind xp I will be wary of Imperials nearby because if I get caught I am gonna have to deal with a fight not just with the NPCs but any passing Overt Imps.
Sure I might die a few times and it will slow my xp grind but it should add a little spice to an otherwise boring xp grind.
Smugglers, you have no reason to be upset. People will still want sliced armor. People will still want sliced weapons. People will still want Spices. If anything people might pay you to group with them to help them transport some contraband (a non combatant crafter makes some nice armor/weapons to fill an order gets them sliced needs to take to someone's home off planet - cannot fend off numerous STs - hires a smuggler to fly with them to destination - this probably won't happen often but doesn't it sound kind of cool?). The fact that Imperial Officers won't get penalized makes sense. If a ST tells his superior, "Sir I have to scan you" that ST winds up cleaning latrines for a month. Instead the ST does not even scan his superior, just salutes him. The Emporer probably doesn't mind if his own troops have the edge with spices and sliced equipment. The Emporer wants to squash the rebellion. Makes sense to me.
Only thing I am curious of here, and it may have been brought up, will there be a difference in the scanning success % if your items are out in the open (equipped/worn), stored in your regular inventory, or in a container? Would make a little more sense if someone stashed his illegal drugs in a pouch that it might give him a slight edge over someone holding drugs in his hands while being scanned. Additionally it would give an edge to people who are willing to stash their contraband and take it out only when they need it (if they have time) as opposed to most people who will just run the risk of getting caught.
- Broog
TheMDude wrote:
mmaughme wrote:Imperial input, only. Why are you ignoring Rebel input?Because it isn't the rebel crackdown.
As much as you think that's relevant, it isn't.
The "Imperial" crackdown is so named only because it is the Imperials who are cracking-down. However, the crackdown affects rebel players just as much, if not moreso, than imperial players. As such, rebel players have every right to provide input into this change, and to have that input considered just as seriously as input from imperial players.
That you feel it's acceptable to ignore rebel input simply because this is the "Imperial" crackdown only proves that you want this change because of the benefits it brings imperial players--not because it will make the game more enjoyable for all.
Bravo! Keep posting, please. I love it when imperial players post such blatantly prejudiced comments.
Olvenskol wrote:
a. Sliced weapons and armor are de facto standards
SmugglerZim wrote:
Official US tank crews making official improvements to their tanks is not the same as some guyillegally making modificiations to your gun.
My point is, they were NOT official changes. They were unauthorized, but in a war no one's going "by the book" - you do what you need to do in order to win.
I'm getting tired of saying this : Who can smuggle items better, a master smuggler, or a "high-ranking" imperial?
A Master Smuggler - because an Imperial is not "smuggling" anything - they are allowed to possess it. And you still didn't answer my very simple, direct question: What did you spend points to get that Imperials get "for free".
Answer? Nothing! Because the smuggling abilities aren't present until the publish, nothing that a smuggler has spent points on pertains to the issue. So let's discard that irrelevant claim, shall we?
You're messing up some issues with causality here... The "fact" thatofficiers areallowed to move unhindered is only a "fact" because the devs changed it to that, along with the command that "subordinates will show proper respect to their superiors". These are not valid reasons for the change, they are justifications made after the change. The Emporer's commands would change to fit whatever decision the devs made.
They're valid reasons because the Developers said they are. It's a simple explanation for why Imperials don't get stopped, and it was offered right from the start of this Crackdown. Remember that the whole point of this is because the Imperials are cracking down on Rebels, not each other.
The Devs are allowed to "ret-con" things like this to make their game work as they want it to. The way you want it, stormtroopers would be like the guards in Monty Python's Holy Grail.
"Right, we're not to enter the room... even if you get back."
Shaan'ti Hokai (Kauri) 
Hlicalanthe wrote:
However, the crackdown affects rebel players just as much, if not moreso, than imperial players. As such, rebel players have every right to provide input into this change, and to have that input considered just as seriously as input from imperial players.
And given that the Rebels outnumber the Imperials by 63%, if they make everything a democratic process it would never happen. If anything, there would be a Rebel crackdown.
Just because they choose to listen to input doesn't mean they're obligated to - it's their game, not yours. If they want to listen to the input of a select group who's been effected by a problem they see, then that's what they do.
Why worry about the input of the Rebel players? The problem is that Rebels were running rampant and the game as it was played is nothing like the way the GCW should be. If Rebel players had their way, I'm sure the "input" would be more nerfing of the Imperials.
Anyone who claims to care about "equality" or "balance" shouldn't have an issue with a plan to put Imperial players on an even footing with Rebels. The Rebels had it easy for way too long now, but the ones complaining don't really want actual equality or balance if it means an inconvenience for them, now do they?
They're all for fairness unless it means giving the other side the easy ride that they've enjoyed for months.