Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Understanding the Crafting Experimentation Changes
JUSTG et al.
Don't be fooled by a very very vocal minority. If you all believe that this crafting change is for the overall good of the game,I beg you, please go through with it. From my understanding it is a viable solution to the overabundance of high end gear and lack of challenge in crafting. Personally, I say go for it. Crafters will adjust, and if they truly enjoy the basis of this game, they will not quit either.
JCatano wrote:
Repost from Naritus forum:
Matchstick said:
I've made so many posts on this subject my brain is starting to leak out of my head.
Essentially it's the same song that Sandoz is singing.
Bottom line... the content in this game is too easy. One of the primary factors in that is the ability to easily manufacture very high end goods in HUGE quantities. When everyone has the best stuff... what's the point of it all? Crafting has no meaning anymore really for most professions. It's not challenging or exciting. I've made about almost 3 dozen full suits of 63-65% base armor with 20% stun in my spare time. That's just goofing off with armorsmith. With the slices everyone in my guild has full effective sliced armor over with stun protection which with buffs makes you damn near invincible. And since I'm a master doc... guess how often any of my chars run around without buffs?
And it was cake. Why should I, who was just sort of piddling with armorsmith, be able to make products in the realm of what you make?
People are pissed off because it's a natural reaction when they make something that was easy harder. But in the long run... having the game be more challenging will be to everyone's benefit. We'll all enjoy it more. And having resource quality play an even larger role in crafting will really make crafting more interesting to me. People complain because some resources are gated in their stats... or that sometimes you get just TERRIBLE spawns... or that some things rarely spawn if ever.... to which I say... DUH! That's life. Not everything is going to be handed to you. It's supposed to be a challenge.
Anyway... I don't even care anymore. I'm tired of crusading around on this topic and defending what to me is an excellent step in the right direction. People are short sighted and only see things to their personal benefit... then they go make a post the next day about how boring the game is and how there's no content. Whatever. Anyone that wants to quit... quit. You'll be back... they always come back. Cuz we get to fly spaceships soon.
Exactly.
I would have to agree with him as well. The only issue is that is not the reasons why the devs want to change it. They are actually trying to go the other way.
If this change is going to go in, now is better than later. The longer we wait the longer it take for things to go out of circulation. It will already take 3-4 months minimum to get rid of a majority of the prenerf weapons/armor. By that time people will have the good resources and be at the same level again.
All you need to be a good crafter is a good bank account to back you up. For armorsmiths you just need to be able to buy a few key resouces and you are just as good as someone who harvested themselves. Now is that an issue? I would say no just because they are still doing better than you since they probably paid 3-5 cpu and you paid 5 times that.
Zarkonan wrote:
JUSTG et al.
Don't be fooled by a very very vocal minority...
tntkiller wrote:
Reldun wrote:
This reply is for Arnwald.
I agree with a lot of the points you made. But I don't think the 10 and 13 BER harvs are the problem. I think having the abilty to lot trade across servers is the problem. Some players on my server have 100-300 permanent harvestors out mining day and night... I think you should have to have say survey 4 to use heavy harvs, and thre needs to be a minimum login time just as with the change to player city residents, maybe even shorter. If the ownder of the harvs doesn't log in within 2 weeks then the harvs go bye bye. These lot traded harvestor farms are completely out of control. Individuals are controlling 300+ heavy harvs at a time.
that wont help i think they will just login once in the 2 weeksremove admin rights on harvesters so if you place them you only can use them
Hmm that's a good idea as well. At any rateI would be in favor of any change to stop this. The devs are constantly looking for ..ahem.."creative" ways to cut back on thier databse bloat. If this keeps up eventually people are gonna go out surveying and have a significantly hard time in finding somewhere to place thier own harvs simply due to the fact that extremely large areas are being taken over by permanent harvestors by the lot traders. One person should not be able to control 300+ harvestors. It's totally out of control, and effects the economy "which the devs see as needing to be fixed" in a very negative way.
Galaxyburst wrote:
Zarkonan wrote:
JUSTG et al.
Don't be fooled by a very very vocal minority...
That's an assumption. Most of the hundreds who have posted here (verterans and newbies) are against this patch, samewise why not assume the vocal majority is against this patch ?
Galaxyburst
Agreed. I'd like to see some empirical evidence that the voices expressing discontent are indeed in the minority. Just from roaming around my server asking other players what they think about the change (without leading them, just asking them in a neutral manner), I've yet to encounter anyone looking forward to it.
Zarkonan wrote:
Don't be fooled by a very very vocal minority.
Sometimes we just DO NOT see the big picture until we're immersed in it, and some of us here are too stubborn to admit that we DON'T ALWAYS KNOW WHAT'S BEST. It's a virtual world - what's good for one group (and those of us here DO respresent a minority I believe, and we do tend to be just ONE part of the population) is not always good for the rest, we all know this. In the end it's not the devs who get me frustrated about this game, it's YOU GUYS. You want to keep the status quo because it works to a degree, but you cannot see beyond the current valley to the next peak. I'm not saying THIS is the solution, but it's a step towards where it SHOULD be going, and I fear the general player base will not be tolerant enough to allow things to evolve.
What I really would like you to think about is a real world set of comparisons. Why would anyone purchase practical items that couldn't be used? Take armor for example. Would the military or police departments buy body armor that was too heavy to be used by their people? Why would anyone manufacture such a thing? Why would it even be designed this way? Armor cannot be worn without helpbecause of high HAM costsand that was the intent of the developers. This is comparable tolining flack jackets with500 pounds of lead and telling soldiers to go and fight in quicksand.
What I'm seeing is a flaw in game design.It's hard to imagine that we've gotten this far into the game and suddenly crafting is broken. Not enough emphasis on diversity they say. Things appear to be too easy they imply.The biggest flaw in the system is the dev teamsperception that things should be more difficult than they need to be. This is a game. I understand that but because it's a game I want to have fun. Crafting as it stands now is hardly fun and this change will make it more like a second job than it presently is.
If this were truly evolution the emphasis would be on ease of play. They hadintended to make this game casual friendly but as time goes on the focus shifts away from that. The economic justification is to be quite frank isone of the lamest excuses for a general nerf I have yet to see. If they want to fix the borked economy then they need to create more money sinks, scale mission payouts back, put an end to hologrinding and place less emphasis on loot.
tntkiller wrote:
Reldun wrote:
This reply is for Arnwald.
I agree with a lot of the points you made.
Well trying to be constructive... ty
But I don't think the 10 and 13 BER harvs are the problem.
They are part of the issue.
I think having the abilty to lot trade across servers is the problem. Some players on my server have 100-300 permanent harvestors out mining day and night... I think you should have to have say survey 4 to use heavy harvs, and thre needs to be a minimum login time just as with the change to player city residents, maybe even shorter. If the ownder of the harvs doesn't log in within 2 weeks then the harvs go bye bye. These lot traded harvestor farms are completely out of control. Individuals are controlling 300+ heavy harvs at a time.
And yes you are right thelots trade is another oneand the biggest one, ty for the update!
that wont help i think they will just login once in the 2 weeks
Could be an issue...
Remove admin rights on harvesters so if you place them you only can use them
This would upset PA and mining compagnies wich use / rentother players free slots
So suggestion :
- cap the number / level of harvesters with the survey level : it is a precedent to make a miners profession...
(I can't say I like this idea but I see nothing wich can solve the issue without pissing the players, plz help!)
==> most people won't take the time to grind towards survey IV on cross trading chars...
I'm going to take a stand in the opposite direction from the naysayers.
Crafting is too easy, and the changes are needed. I agree with the changes.
However, the changes are not enough.
Devs please to a look at http://enactive.org/swg
Look at the tracking we have for Tempest alone. You will note one thing. The resources are terrible for the most part and they are ALL THE SAME on different planets. There is little diversity.
My summary, implement the changes, make NEW resource drops for every single planet. YES increase the number of resources dramatically and make each planet's resources totally different.
Always Always throw in some goodies each and every week. Somewhere in the galaxy a few really good resources for EVERY PROFESSION.
For the love of god stop the exploitation of skill tapes with 3rd party macros.
Please stop people defrauding other players, admitting to it in the Tempest forums, and then being defended by forum moderators who refuse to ever research the blatant fraud the person has openly admitted committing.
ALSO ALL YOU ONE-STARers, please grow up and let all voices be heard.
Cafa/Fivo Asia
Protenis wrote:
Jedi items run the economy. First it was holocrons selling for a small fortune. Then it became crystals/pearls when they became more rare and harder to get. There is no reason that these items should have such an impact. People who disagree go look at the trade forums and notice the most expensive items in there are usually pearls/crystals which are used by only one class which needs these items to even play.
This was on Page 2, yet I have to say this is a huge deal. Not only in terms of the economy, but just Star Wars and continuity sake. I know my comments don't relate directly to experimentation, but thesechanges arealso about the economy in general according to you.
EVERYTHING about Jedi should be basically secret (at least in game) and should not have any impact on the economy at all. The Jedi system was so poorly thought out and implemented its just not even funny. Nothing related to Jedi, save mabye a few rare (useless) artifacts should be visible in game. Half the problem with the economy now is the fallout of Holocrons, Krayt pearls and crystals. None of these things should have ever made it into the hands of the general public. Jedi items should be lootable, attainable, and usable only by Jedi. Saying that the reason the economy is down is because of anything to do with crafting is just wrong. Duping, Uber loot, and exploits (such as the skill tape looting) are the reasons the economy is so messed up. THAT is where the focus should be. Not on experimentation.
Galaxyburst wrote:
Graysaber wrote:
I welcome this change! As for those people that are threatening to cancel their accounts, **edit** em. There will be more that will join and stay now that the economy will be forced to stabalize.
How can this patch stabilize the economy? Please elaborate.
Galaxyburst
I was going to post the exact same thing. I don't think they can elaborate for the same reasons the dev post didn't. This change would not stabalize the economy at all, it would totally screw it up. In fact just the potential of this change is already screwing the economy... Prices have skyrocketed on armor especially, master crafters are hoarding resources and schematics and crated goods more than before.
This change at this point in time would seriously be a disaster.
Wow, talk about a long thread. I guess I can put my 2 credits in.
You have the devs saying they need to help the economy and help crafters out. If this is the intent, this change will not do it. I'm not going to elaborate because there are very good posts that can explain it better. Basicly, its the opinion of the majority of crafters and hunters that nothing is wrong with the crafting and this change will not only make it a pre-nerf market....it will also make it impossible for any new crafter to make a living in this game for at least a year. Now lets look at the other angle.
What the devs should have said was they are finding it hard to make high end content when players are so powerful with the weapons they are able to craft.......thats right not loot, craft. Its one thing to have a handful of people with legendary/exceptional guns/armor, its another to have everyone running around with 80-90% armor and some of the best guns. Clearly the devs did not anticipate the crafters making such high quality products. Why else would 99% of mobs con red to me but I can tank 10 at once just using myaverage dxpistol, 80% armor, doc buffs, and food. If you think that stuff is hard to find your fooling yourselves. At most the armor costs 200k for the set, the pistol cost 10k, doc buffs 10k, and brandy cost about 1k per use when averaging it out. How can the devs create content when players can camp your spawns almost to the point of being afk. The devs have tried to create uber hard beasts but nothing will suffice because the equipment were using is just that good. Instead of creating a 1 million ham mob, they are opting for a crafting nerf. I could understand it if this was before the launch of the game but were 9 months into the game and now a change of this magnitude comes in.......I guess you really do want uber players and average players because thats what your going to get with this nerf.
I still say they need to come out and state why exactly they are changing it instead of giving the poor excuse of trying to save the economy when the Jedi Holo grind fest is the culprit of that deed.