Development Cycle Archive
Thread: ID#2: Two Changes to Bazaars and Vendors
Raising the Bazaar cap from 3k to 6k would be great, raising it to 10k would be even better.
Applying a 150 cap on personal vendors is a horrible idea. If you must put a cap on the vendors, please make it at least 400 items per vendor.
Crayt Kamakura
Bria Server
Naboo, New Solah
The 150 limit on items??
Oh man =/ not good not good not good at all .. I have had all my vendors selling different things and to have 4-5 vendors set up all selling resources of different kinds would be a total nightmare.
Just for an example, on one of my vendors, a resource vendor, I have 186k copper for sale. When I price it, I put up 100k, then 50K, then three stacks of 10k each, one stack of 5k and one stack of 1k.
WHY? Because of the little guys. My first experiences with a player city was moving in, going to the local resource vendor and finding only chunks of 10k or more going for FAR more money than I could afford to buy, and since there are no bazaar terminals in player cities, I was out of luck unless I wanted to spend a full hour to go to a city to find material at a quanity and price I could afford on the bazaar.
SO, point being, I feel good when I get mail saying that Soandso bought three 1k stacks of resources, because I know he either didn't need 100k of it, or simply couldn't afford to buy more. Limiting the vendor to 150 items will stop that. I will be forced to put up only large amounts of resources, and if someone can't afford it they're out of luck. Not cool
Here's my thoughts on the subject. I think that the cure for this would be to have it so when an item is stackable (like resources) when pricing the items, you should be able to say "Price for each resource in the stack is 3 credits".This way, I could put all 186k copper on ONE STACK, and let the buyer decide how much of it he/she wishes to buy. Then the limit of 150 items on one vendor wouldn't be so unreasonable. The same would need to be true for other items too. Identical items stack. This would include deeds, armor, furniture or whatever.
My other question would be how does this go into effect? What happens if you have more than 150 items on the vendor already? I suppose they'll wind up stuck for all eternity in the vendor's stockroom tab, like a patch I recall not too long ago
I will be very upset if the plan currently in testing goes live =/
On the vendor cap, I can't say that I am thrilled, but it will help with crafters prioritizing what they want to sell and what will sell, instead of pages of CDEF pistols.
So there are my 2 cents...in a nutshell, bazaar change=good, vendor change=ok, wish=search feature for bazaar...
Both excuses for the Vendor Item limit cap are silly:
1) This sounds like sugarcoating database Issues by claiming"its hard for people to find things" on vendors.
If that is the problem the solution better filtering and search capability not limiting the number of items on vendors.
2) As for monopoly they want to force people to have to go to more than one merchant to buy things. Rather than have the one vendor able to satisfy the entire market, they want to make room for more artisans to still make a living since it will be impossible for the established artisans to maintain an stock in the entire range of possible wares. This will replace the problem in #1 from "I can't find it the item I'm looking on your vendor but I know its there somewhere" to "I have no idea which vendor sells what I'm looking for".
i favor a hike in the bazarre cap. but i think 10k or 15k would actually be better.
this would help greatly for low to moderate end... crafting items
at 10k you could post.
full crates of spice.
mid range/quality weapons. ...most pistols and mid range rifles and such.
larger or better stim packs. fuller crates. etc.
but at 6k all you're really upping is the amount people will gouge for common items.
i see 4/30000 harvestors going up to 6k. 500 or maybe 1000 unit resource containers.. at 6k. locked containers at 6k
a 5 unit spice crate for 5k.
a few stim Bs or Cs at 6k.
but that's about it. ...i think the bazarre should link to player vendors with an added delivery fee for the transport.
that would be the real answer. allow you to shop items accross the galaxy regardless of where they're placed. and reserve/purchase options for player vendor items.
maybe even tie...more advanced bazarre functionality to merchant skills. to make that class more viable. ...a brokerage skill of some sort. that give new and enhanced abilities towards the global bazarre.
access fees for higher credit cap items. delivery fees and transport batering. i dunno. something like that.
or whatever.
6k doesn't fix anything as i see it. but if it's that or nothing... definately increase it. as high as y'all in power can bear.
Vas
These are 2 things that should be linked too merchant ability, maybe the starting min. for all should be 6k max for bazaar and 150 items on vendors and then scale up w/ merchant skills, it would make merchants a bit more worthwhile.
gbl-
for the bazaar thing: good idea
vendor thing: bad idea. 150 items per vendor really limits what we can stock. 500 minimum per vendor would be needed...
Limiting the number of items on the vendor is a terrible idea. Those of us who have dedicated countless hours buying, cataloging, marketing, & pricing out thousands of items are dedicated to the business aspect of the game. By limiting the number of items per vendor, you are effectively eliminating a major draw of the game for serious business players.
Personally, I maintain 2 vendors with approx. 2500 items per vendor (plus a fair bit of overstock in storage facilities). It has taken months to acquire & maintain this level of stock. I subcontract bulk orders of items amongst numerous crafters, and thus help spur the economy. Our marketing strategy has been a one-stop shopping source for people who are tired of empty vendors and relatively low breadth of selection on the bazaar. In order to maintain this level of inventory, my partner and myself typically dedicate approx. 40 hours each per week (on top of our existing real-world jobs). We do it, because we enjoy running as real a business as possible. We maintain storage facilities, distribution centers, and even an assembly plant (granted these are houses used for special purposes, but the design solutions to business problems were varied & complex, and ongoing logistics involved in maintaining such an enterprise is immense in "effort overhead"). We maintain spreadsheets itemizing every item we sell, the price, current inventory levels at each location, etc. This alone takes up a rather significant amount of time. Recording sales, corresponding w/ recent customers, determining current buying needs, searching & traversing the galaxy to acquire needed items, negotiating deals w/ sub-contractors, not to mention the normal logistics of resource shifts, maintenance for all equipment & staff, personal crafting, etc. all take a VERY large amount of time & effort. Such effort & dedication should be encouraged, not ground to a halt. There are enough customers out there for everyone...each business person and retail crafter is fulfilling a niche & a need. Do you really only want guilds who can spare the extra vendors to have the only real selection of goods? As an independent gamer, I am somewhat dismayed at the rather consistent pressure to join guilds and/or player cities brought about by the recent attitudes of SWG. If someone wants to join a guild...great!...but why force us all into such potentially unsavory paths?
The point about database issues, not particularly valid in my opinion. The number of items that exist in a game can be regulated by resource scarcity...vs. unfairly limiting a vendor capacity. SWG should take some responsibility in maintaining a robust and scaleable database. We as players pay an awful lot of money each month to play SWG...please take that into account when you consider database scale decisions.
The point about monopolies also does not seem accurate. I purchase many items crafted by other people...and they know that I resell the items (I try to be up-front about such things). Not once have I heard a protest or refusal to sell. The crafter gets his/her asking price, a source of reliable bulk orders, and can then spend credits on other things. In return, I get more stock for sale & boost my depth & breadth of inventory so buyers who are tired of empty vendors & bazaar items that are sold less than honestly (example: armor & weaponry w/ 0 condition, etc.) have a safe and convenient place to shop. Over time, we have developed a reasonably large customer base who are willing to pay a bit more for the convenience & honesty...after all, in this game, time is money...and who wants to worry about the honesty of every seller? I consider it a service we provide, in addition to the goods. We spend the time, effort, and credits to search the galaxy for good deals and quality items so our customers do not have to. Why is this considered a "problem"?
In addition, as a master artisan/architect and novice DE, I would not be able to even stock the a representative breadth of goods for a single profession. What is the point of mastering multiple crafting professions if we can only sell a fraction of the goods? With the ongoing pet nerfs (first loss of aggros, then reduction from 15 to 10), our combat skills are further reduced...leaving us to either change professions, join a guild, contract out exclusively to others (which represents another huge logistical nightmare (let alone the question of honesty), or hawk wares in the streets to move product. Do we really want more street hawking? A little is ok, as it adds to the game, but if everyone is forced to hawk wares in the street, the lag and confusion could seriously detract from game play.
I understand that others may not wish to dedicate the excessive amount of time required to run a business of this magnitude and that is perfectly ok. Those crafters who even wish to simply dabble still have a niche to fill. They often offer goods at a lower price than us. This is great for those customers who prefer a great deal over the time spent shopping. So, why punish those dedicated few who wish to run as "real" an enterprise as possible?
Thank you for your time,
Convene
It seems to me that most of you who are supporting the bazaar increases have no clue as to basic economics. The 3k limit needs to stay so that the emphasis stays on player run stores and vendors.
The item limit for vendors is a bad idea and will damage merchant even more unless its 150 per vendor and not player.
Thunderheart wrote:
There is a lot of good information and this is a testament to the process.
Since there are so many different angles, I'll post a poll so we can get an idea of what the numbers are. Ill let the poll run through the weekend and we'll evaluate this again on Monday.
Thanks very much for all the input
Kurt,
You know darn well that NO ONE CARES about the bazaar. It is a NON-ISSUE to this game.
Post the poll that MATTERS. "ShouldSOE nerf all vendors?"
Fivo Asia
Master Artisan - Master Architect - Master Merchant
Tempest - Dantooine - Vesnia (City Manager)
lostkangaroo wrote:It seems to me that most of you who are supporting the bazaar increases have no clue as to basic economics. The 3k limit needs to stay so that the emphasis stays on player run stores and vendors.
The item limit for vendors is a bad idea and will damage merchant even more unless its 150 per vendor and not player.
Item limit - never seen a vendor with more than 300 items in stock.
Bazaar cap.. Bad idea. 3000 cap should stay it's impossible to search through 100's of rubbish cdef rifles as it is.
Things that I would like to see change.
1. Ability to search all vendors - player and bazaar. from one bazaar terminal.
2. Price limits that can be set. ie searching from a terminal I'm looking for a good rifle I search between 5k and 50k cr.
3. Limit on items returned. The lowest item in the drill down should return items and not the all selections.
4. Only vendors that have Items stocked should appear in the planetary map. and they should display under the correct vendor option.. ( went half way across naboo today to look for pet stims. when I got there it was carrying clothes. )
5. Ability to hide certain columns in the item display. If I'm looking for cheep rifle I only need the price and the title. At the moment everytime you enter the bazaar you have to spend 2 - 3 mins resizing the window and all the columns to get rid of the clutter.
.02c
DS