Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Declaring overt
Holocron wrote:
That would let you move in armies of safe people to the location of a fight, and have them all go overt at once and ambush...
Well, yes. Exactly. This has been a well-established tactic since, oh, say, Robin Hood tried it, and probably earlier.
Isn't thisPRECISELY the strategy that covert detectors are meant to counteract?
Being able to declare wherever and whenever is the way to go. Even if it means a huge group of people amassing in an area then all declaring and attacking. If they did do a surprise attack like this it would make it alot more realistic and i think it would add a certain sense of fun. Plus, it would be very obvious to the other faction that they were going to get attack if they saw a huge number of players not with their faction grouping up...
My 1 cent....
Hello Holocron/Mr. Koster,
Thank you for starting this thread. I have been pondering some ideas along this very topic some time. I will provide a summary now. I hope for your comments if you find them interesting, so I can expound and provide more detail.
This is how I would model the overt/covert system:
First off, everyone who belongs to a faction starts off covert. When you attackan overt member of the opposing faction or heal an overt member of your own faction, an optional dialog appears warning you and asking for confirmation. This dialog tells you that you will become overt if you choose to continue the action. Once you learn how the system works and feel comfortable you can disable this confirmation box under the Options dialog. Going from overt back to covert is adequate currently, so the system we have now can remain.
I can hear your response now: "That would let you move in armies of safe people to the location of a fight, and have them all go overt at once and ambush..."
Yes, it would. This is why we have covert detection units. However, this is not quite enough. Higher-ranking members of a faction should be given the abilityto detect covert members of the opposing faction over time. For example, say a covert Imperial is standing around in a Rebel base with a mixture of covert and overt Rebels present. Any overt or covert Rebel can use the Radial menu to attempt to assess the membership status of any non-purple player, that is any player not showing up as being in their own faction. This analysis works once every 60 seconds. The chance of success is directly relative to the rank of the person performing the analysis. It starts off as 0% at the lowest rank and can work its way to maybe 33% once you achieve the highest rank. If a covert person is performing such an analysis and discovers someone to be an enemy, they get another optional Dialog. This dialog informs the player that they can choose to report the enemy or ignore his findings. If he reports it, both he and the enemy become overt immediately. Otherwise, nothing happens. This dialog is skipped if the person doing the analysis is already overt.
This would have the effect of making it impossible for an enemy agent to remain in your base for any lengthy period of time without being discovered. Since you must be actively analyzed, you will remain hidden until someone bothers to check you out and succeeds.Failure of the analysis should look the same as an analysis on a true neutral player. Then you will not know if that person is really neutral or you are merely failing your check. This opens up further possibilities of allowing for espionage and covert skills in some professions. Perhaps the Image Designer could even help here with a temporary buff that increases the chances of your evading detection.
There are many possibilities here. The only thing people might complain about is that they are not 100% safe from PvP if they are a covert member of a faction. You and I both know it was never intended that they be safe in that situation, but they still complain none-the-less. We would need to drill into people's heads once and for all that covert does not mean no-PvP, it just means a reduced chance of it.
Comments?
-Raystonn
I like the general thinking, but I think you can go one better. Make the effective range of the command depend on the size of the HQ in question.
Forward outpost - 25 meters
Field hospital - 50 meters
Tactical Base - 60 meters
Detachment HQ - 75 meters
Or something along these lines. Anything you can do to enhance the desirabiliity of larger bases is a good thing IMHO.
We have a petition on a similar idea at:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=GCW&message.id=46172
Relating to incrementing the faction 5% bonus based on base size as well.
aaaaaaarrrgh wrote:
Holocron wrote:
That would let you move in armies of safe people to the location of a fight, and have them all go overt at once and ambush...
Well, yes. Exactly. This has been a well-established tactic since, oh, say, Robin Hood tried it, and probably earlier.Isn't this PRECISELY the strategy that covert detectors are meant to counteract?
The difference, of course, is that in RL if you spot an ambush, you can fight back. In SWG, if you see a group of coverts waiting to ambush you, your options are to either flee or assault them with your razor wit and harsh language.
Holocron wrote:
That would let you move in armies of safe people to the location of a fight, and have them all go overt at once and ambush...
-Raph Koster
Why yes! Yes it would! Is not the ambush one of the key elements of battle? Where would the battle of Endor have gone if all those little Ewoks had had to go find a rebel recruiter to declare overt?
Covert action and infiltration is not only a major aspect of military action in general, but was a component within all of the Star Wars movies. Episode IV, Han and Luke didn't have to find a recruiter to start shooting Imps in the cell block! Episode V, the security guards on Bespin didn't have to be overt to draw down on our heroes! Episode VI involved a masterful ambush at the shield generator on Endor. Episode...You get the point. Or at leastI hope you do.
Right now, thanks to the radar and red dots, an ambush is not practical. This would add another element to the war. However one should also make the wearing of any factional armor/uniforms declare you overt.
Well thats weird, my post which was to be the 5th post..didnt post itself!
anyways, in brief this is what i proposed:
In a certain radius (50+ m), any overt that attacks another overt (or TEFed guy) should get a TEF from EVERY covert of the opposite faction in that radius. This would prevent camping in towns, and maybe even factional PvP in towns all together.
However, this TEF would last maybe shorter than standard TEF (new type of TEF) plus the coverts that are able to attack the TEFed overt have two choices: Attack or don't (since many coverts dont want to PvP), by attacking then they'll get TEFs from opposing overts (and maybe opposing coverts as well? - BUT the only person that initiates combat is the covert..unless of course he already attacked and got a TEF, which makes him vulnerable to attack...with this I dont see many loopholes and griefing [of course others prolly and most likely will])
Also being able to declare overt from within a set distance from the recruiter is a good idea as well.