Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IT 7-2 Preliminary Combat Balance Changes
I'm not playing on TC atm, but hav important question, altho TKA get no dodge, block or counterattack, they get defensive acuity which increases the chance of the aforementioned skills working.....
So, how does defensive acuity factor in to all these changes, and doesnt defensive acuity assume the TKA compliments with another combat class?
I hear you cant dodge without a pistol or 1-h wep equipped, so if your carrying some sort of gun, will defensive acuity help block(which doesnt seem to do anything) or counterattack(carbines)?
Are all the defensive skills(dodge, counterattack, block) going to be weapon specific? ie, no block without a rifle or pike, no dodge without a sword or pistol etc etc?
I've noticed a palapable absence of posts concerning defensive acuity on all the combat restructuring threads, just wondering what is up with such an intriguing skill....
-----muj
Are wookiees getting balanced at all on TC? And for those about to post after me saying wookiees are so god like with their uber stat points you hve never played as one before. On the first page of this post somebody was complaining about us and our stat points and saying its fair. I want to see something done to balance us out with other races, and no i dont mean just the AP1 rating as that will do nothing because we still need resistances too. This is the third place I have posted today on this issue, do the devs never read these forums? And if you want to one star me, at least go play as a wookiee for a week or so then come back and do it.
Arobus - Shadowfire
More Combat Balance Commentary from Bothan HQ-----
after server down, and having taken some notes from skill trees, i want to restate my questions about the up coming combat changes and be more specific.
Assuming that, the cap for all defensive skills will become 125 after publish 7, that is maximum ranged defense, melee defense, dodge, counterattack and block, all 125 come hither or yon from class and or combos of combat proffesions.
Also assuming that the TKA ability Defensive Acuity makes the evasive skills(dodge, counterattack, and block) test succesfully more often.
And, of course, assuming that counterattack evades an attack an affords a free attack, dodge evades an attack, and block halves the damage of an attack that has already hit.
Penalizing proffesions specific defensive functions by forcing them to wield certain weapons(the weapons they indeed choose to wield, and wield by virtue of the proffesion choices they have made) isnt a penalty at all, and +125 for an active defense is alot more than +125 for a passive defense(melee/ranged) especially when its paired with the activator of TKA defensive acuity....
I am a master carbineer, and I want to be the best carbineer possible, so my options are...
pursue the BH carbine tree
pursue the swordsman counterattack tree(swordsman 0/0/4/0) so as to reach +125 counterattack
further, pursue the defensive TKA tree(TKA 0/0/04) so as to get +71 defensive acuity so as to make my already capped +125 counterattack test succesfully even more often
further, achieve the coveted status of TKM for defensive acuity +96
pursue the fencer defensive tree(4/0/0/0) so as to cap my ranged defense and melee defense at +125
all this assuming I am armed with a carbine or a 2-H sword
I am a master pistoleer, and I want to be the best pistoleer possible, so my options are...
pursue the BH pistol tree
pursue the fencer dodge tree(0/0/4/0) so as to reach +125 dodge
pursue the TKA defense tree(0/0/04) so as to attain +71 defensive acuity and dodge more even
pursue TKM for defensive acuity +96, for even more dodge still
pursue the fencer basic defense tree(4/0/0/0) so as to cap my melee and ranged defense at +125
Dabble in smuggler fora few extra special shots
Dabble in commando for an extra pistol cert
all this assuming that I am armed with a pistol or a 1-H sword
I am a master rifleman and i want to be the best rifleman i can be, so my options are...
pursue the defensive tree of pikeman, to cap block at +125(pikeman 0/0/4/0)
pursue the basic defensive tree of fencer(4/0/0/0) to cap melee and ranged defense at +125
Pursue TKA(0/0/04) for +71 defensive acuity so as to activate block more, or failing that TKM for +96 DA and even more blocks(which are terrible inferior to dodge and counterattack)
all this assuming I am wielding a rifle ora polearm
Etc, Etc, Etc, one can see where this is going...
fencer--get pistoleer dodge tree(4/0/0/0)---and TKA defensive acuity tree(0/0/04)----and or TKM DA +96
swordsman--get carbine counterattack tree(0/0/4/0)--and TKA, or TKM
pikeman-- get rifleman block tree(0/0/4/0)---and TKA or TKM
TKA-or TKM--get any and all of the above
What Im saying is, that even given the +125 cross proffesion cap, a person can still get +125 dodge or counteratack, +71 or +96 defensive acuity, all within the +125 cap, and evade most attacks, for riflemen and pikeman, block being a sad joke...the only option is fencer tree(4/0/0/0) to cap melee and ranged defense at +125, a luxury afforded all the other active defense combos as well.....
So isnt a +125 defensive cap skewed in terms of ranged/melee defense, and active defenses(dodge, counterattack, block--lol)
Seems to low for melee/ranged defense, and too high for worthwhile active defenses...
+125 dodge or counterattack, supplemented with defensive acuity of TKA, is more then enough to nullify most attacks IMO
Block is so ridiculous that master rifleman had better become master docs on the side for constant buffing, or holo grind with the available points and become BH fending off jedi....(evade an attack completely and gain a free attack, or evade an attack completely, or sustain half damage from an attack that has already landed)
And!----anyone with +125 dodge or counterattack in tandem with defensive acuity +71 or +96, no matter the proffesion specifics is going to be a PVP menace. ex. carbine 0/0/4/0+ swordsman 0/0/4/0+TKA 0/0/0/4, any of the 3 being master and primary to the combat template.
So my sincere question is, Is this combat rebalancing a moot point? Whenyou merely change the elite combat template. Not adress its essential unbalances, curiously enough its all well and good, but the flaws lie not in "nerfing" but in classes needing to be boosted or helped(block classes)?
All ever wanted to be was the best rifleman i could be, PvP or otherwise, with such a thing as GCW, PvP seems pivotal to SWG and its play, and i see my options are few, I cannot take my melee/ranged defense to realy high marks and be effective at PvP, i must play a counterattack or dodge class( which is funny as a bothan, i shoulda always been a carbineer.....hehe). With these upcoming changes, i cannot extend myself into fencer or TKA profitably, nor can any pikeman who wants to be a true "contender" in the GCW PvP arena. I would much rather be able to compliment my mastered profession, than even begin to worry about the uselessness of concealment and cover in the PvP world.
So pistoleer/fencers will still kick major butt in PvP, and be forced to wield their pistols and swords, and carbineer, with the recent fixes may turn out to be the true master of PvP, with carbineer/swordsman combos reigning supreme, especially with a bit of fencer and TKA thrown in...
Which was always the point of complimenting ones chosen proffesion with "dabbling".....
Having ones toe stomped on doesnt cure the common cold, it merely makes one forget about it mometarily.
Mujaa Maungre, rebel captain, bothie riflemasta-starsider
Mujaa wrote:
More Combat Balance Commentary from Bothan HQ-----
after server down, and having taken some notes from skill trees, i want to restate my questions about the up coming combat changes and be more specific.
Assuming that, the cap for all defensive skills will become 125 after publish 7, that is maximum ranged defense, melee defense, dodge, counterattack and block, all 125 come hither or yon from class and or combos of combat proffesions.
Also assuming that the TKA ability Defensive Acuity makes the evasive skills(dodge, counterattack, and block) test succesfully more often.
And, of course, assuming that counterattack evades an attack an affords a free attack, dodge evades an attack, and block halves the damage of an attack that has already hit.
Penalizing proffesions specific defensive functions by forcing them to wield certain weapons(the weapons they indeed choose to wield, and wield by virtue of the proffesion choices they have made) isnt a penalty at all, and +125 for an active defense is alot more than +125 for a passive defense(melee/ranged) especially when its paired with the activator of TKA defensive acuity....
I am a master carbineer, and I want to be the best carbineer possible, so my options are...
pursue the BH carbine tree
pursue the swordsman counterattack tree(swordsman 0/0/4/0) so as to reach +125 counterattack
further, pursue the defensive TKA tree(TKA 0/0/04) so as to get +71 defensive acuity so as to make my already capped +125 counterattack test succesfully even more often
further, achieve the coveted status of TKM for defensive acuity +96
pursue the fencer defensive tree(4/0/0/0) so as to cap my ranged defense and melee defense at +125
all this assuming I am armed with a carbine or a 2-H sword
I am a master pistoleer, and I want to be the best pistoleer possible, so my options are...
pursue the BH pistol tree
pursue the fencer dodge tree(0/0/4/0) so as to reach +125 dodge
pursue the TKA defense tree(0/0/04) so as to attain +71 defensive acuity and dodge more even
pursue TKM for defensive acuity +96, for even more dodge still
pursue the fencer basic defense tree(4/0/0/0) so as to cap my melee and ranged defense at +125
Dabble in smuggler fora few extra special shots
Dabble in commando for an extra pistol cert
all this assuming that I am armed with a pistol or a 1-H sword
I am a master rifleman and i want to be the best rifleman i can be, so my options are...
pursue the defensive tree of pikeman, to cap block at +125(pikeman 0/0/4/0)
pursue the basic defensive tree of fencer(4/0/0/0) to cap melee and ranged defense at +125
Pursue TKA(0/0/04) for +71 defensive acuity so as to activate block more, or failing that TKM for +96 DA and even more blocks(which are terrible inferior to dodge and counterattack)
all this assuming I am wielding a rifle ora polearm
Etc, Etc, Etc, one can see where this is going...
fencer--get pistoleer dodge tree(4/0/0/0)---and TKA defensive acuity tree(0/0/04)----and or TKM DA +96
swordsman--get carbine counterattack tree(0/0/4/0)--and TKA, or TKM
pikeman-- get rifleman block tree(0/0/4/0)---and TKA or TKM
TKA-or TKM--get any and all of the above
What Im saying is, that even given the +125 cross proffesion cap, a person can still get +125 dodge or counteratack, +71 or +96 defensive acuity, all within the +125 cap, and evade most attacks, for riflemen and pikeman, block being a sad joke...the only option is fencer tree(4/0/0/0) to cap melee and ranged defense at +125, a luxury afforded all the other active defense combos as well.....
So isnt a +125 defensive cap skewed in terms of ranged/melee defense, and active defenses(dodge, counterattack, block--lol)
Seems to low for melee/ranged defense, and too high for worthwhile active defenses...
+125 dodge or counterattack, supplemented with defensive acuity of TKA, is more then enough to nullify most attacks IMO
Block is so ridiculous that master rifleman had better become master docs on the side for constant buffing, or holo grind with the available points and become BH fending off jedi....(evade an attack completely and gain a free attack, or evade an attack completely, or sustain half damage from an attack that has already landed)
And!----anyone with +125 dodge or counterattack in tandem with defensive acuity +71 or +96, no matter the proffesion specifics is going to be a PVP menace. ex. carbine 0/0/4/0+ swordsman 0/0/4/0+TKA 0/0/0/4, any of the 3 being master and primary to the combat template.
So my sincere question is, Is this combat rebalancing a moot point? Whenyou merely change the elite combat template. Not adress its essential unbalances, curiously enough its all well and good, but the flaws lie not in "nerfing" but in classes needing to be boosted or helped(block classes)?
All ever wanted to be was the best rifleman i could be, PvP or otherwise, with such a thing as GCW, PvP seems pivotal to SWG and its play, and i see my options are few, I cannot take my melee/ranged defense to realy high marks and be effective at PvP, i must play a counterattack or dodge class( which is funny as a bothan, i shoulda always been a carbineer.....hehe). With these upcoming changes, i cannot extend myself into fencer or TKA profitably, nor can any pikeman who wants to be a true "contender" in the GCW PvP arena. I would much rather be able to compliment my mastered profession, than even begin to worry about the uselessness of concealment and cover in the PvP world.
So pistoleer/fencers will still kick major butt in PvP, and be forced to wield their pistols and swords, and carbineer, with the recent fixes may turn out to be the true master of PvP, with carbineer/swordsman combos reigning supreme, especially with a bit of fencer and TKA thrown in...
Which was always the point of complimenting ones chosen proffesion with "dabbling".....
Having ones toe stomped on doesnt cure the common cold, it merely makes one forget about it mometarily.
Mujaa Maungre, rebel captain, bothie riflemasta-starsider
Let me just say from my experience defensive acuity doensnt work, nor do I think it is supposed to be an amplifier, I think its supposed to stand on its own, in other words, instead of TKAs getting just dodge and dodging, they may either dodge, block or counter from their own skill not as amplifier to something else. Like I said though, I am a TKA warrior and have never seen it work.
SWG-Runesabre wrote:
I will be evaluating the changes to Panic Shot tomorrow (Monday) when my combat balance designer gets back in town.
Any chance we could get an update on this? Anyone? Pleeeease!!!
This issue is a very important one to the smuggler community, so it would be nice if we could get some feedback on it soon.
just to throw in something to be thought of:
as a chefI made food with +84 to knockdown defense (i think that wasnt nearly 100%).it should be taken care of that such buffs dont make the skills obsolete. If you can reach the caps with buffs and attachments, there is no point in spending skillpoints. knockdown is just an example, i think there are similar issues with other defense values.
SWG-Runesabre wrote:
electricnomad wrote:
As for the Panic Shot change, you just broke another part of Smuggler for no good reason. You're clearly trying to weed out the huge 20-second delay of Warcry2 (and probably the powerful Novice Brawler skill of Warcry1), and that's understandable. So why not cut Warcry1 to 5 seconds, and put Warcry2 and Panic Shot at 10 seconds? If you're worried about people KDing a target and then delaying them there, why not count a Warcry/Panic Shot as a KD against someone who's knocked down, meaning that they instantly spring back to their feet? There are many creative ways to fix the situation.
Sowhy attack Panic Shot to accomplish that goal? There's already almost nothing in the Smugglerprofession that works (yeah yeah - wait for the revamp, you'll say, but that's been the Devs' line since Summer 2003, and anytime you play that card we know it's a joker). Now you're stripping away something that actually DOES work, and in fact somethingthat's probably THE most useful move in the whole tree.
Here are some of the many differences between Warcry and Panic Shot, and how I would justify leaving Panic Shot as-is:
- Warcry is a scream.
- Panic Shot is a flurry of pistol shots.
- Warcry1 lasts for 10 seconds, but Warcry2 lasts for 20 seconds, and both are on a 30-second timer.
- Panic Shot lasts for 10 seconds and is on a 30-second timer.
- Warcry has no defense other thanfailure on the part of the Brawler.
- Panic Shot can be Blocked, Dodged, Counterattacked, or simply missed.
- Warcry doesn't cause any damage.
- Panic Shot does damage to a target if it hits.
- Warcry1 is a Novice Brawler skill, while Warcry2 is in the Master box of a starting profession.
- Panic Shot is a 2nd-tier Hybrid profession's skill, requiring skills from three differentskilltrees to use. In fact, Smugglers use a branch of the Brawler tree as a prerequisite, meaning that it's a stepping stone to more powerful abilities.
- Warcry has all of its effectiveness in the Brawler tree. Once you are a Master Brawler, you have the best possible skills to use Warcry effectively.
- Panic Shot depends on Pistol Accuracy to hit a target. There are no Pistol Accuracy modifiers in the Smuggler skilltree - they're in the Pistoleer skilltree.
- Warcry1 is acquired by spending 100 credits and 15 available skillpoints. Warcry2 requires 77 skillpoints,620 Apprentice XP,and 364,000 points of different melee combat XP.
- Panic Shotrequires that you invest 29 skillpoints in Brawler, 29 skillpoints in Marksman, and 18 skillpoints in Smuggler, for a total of 73 skillpoints. To use Panic Shot, you need to earn 91,000 Unarmed XP and 566,000 Pistol XP. Considering that Pistol Accuracy is needed forPanic Shotto work effectively, however, there's a need to invest in Pistoleer skills. To get only the branch dedicated to Pistol Accuracy, one needs to invest another 20 skillpoints and earn another 1,275,000 Pistol XP. To maximize your chances of landing a Panic Shot, you need to invest another2,450,000 Pistol XP, 56,000 Combat XP, 620 Apprentice XP, and 43 skillpoints. So to be most effective at using a Panic Shot, a Smuggler needs to also be a Master Pistoleer, spending a grand total of 165 skillpoints and 4,291,000 Pistol XP, among other things.
There are many differences between Warcry and Panic Shot. All Smugglers are Brawlers, but not all Brawlers are Smugglers. Smugglers build on the abilities of the Brawler profession and augment them. Both in terms of a skillpoint argument and an XP argument, Smuggler abilities should be more potent than Brawler skills. Brawler is a prerequisite for Smuggler, andthere is NO justification for equating the power of the prerequisite with the power of the advanced skill. By that faultylogic, Unarmed Hit 1 would do just as much damage as Unarmed Hit 3.
I will be evaluating the changes to Panic Shot tomorrow (Monday) when my combat balance designer gets back in town.
Don't be scurred... don't be scurred.
We'd like a response please 
Most of us don't want panic shot nerfed BTW...
Has ANYONE figured out yet if the defensive modifiers affect ALL defences or just the block/dodge/counter?
I've seen 2-3 "official" posts/replies and NONE of them conclusively say whether the "Defence Vs XXX" is counted into the 125 cap.
TH:
Will you PLEASE inform us if the 125 cap is for block/dodge/counter only, or if it affects the entire "Defence Vs XXX" (where XXX = Ranged, Melee, Dizzy, KD,Blind,Stun, Intimidate, etc), or both?
On EVERY proffesion board I go to their are dozens of people with different opinions based on the mis-information the devs are giving us.
PLEASE GIVE US A STRAIGHT ANSWER.