Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Crafting Critical Failure Rates
Darkblade101
Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:54 pm
#599
I am a Master Doctor and I will put my 2 cents in.
In this post i have seen my problem,you talk about critical failures.
Anything but a great success and an amazing success is a failure (worthless)
You say 4 % ,in my exp it is a lot more than that,maybe complete crits but not (good success,success,failures.
Thats what i am talking about.
Ok i make a schematic for enhance packs,i have 6 schematics to make for the set.
Almost every time it takes me 9-10 schematics to get a full power,charges etc.
Unless i am mistaken at 10thats40% failure 60% success
It also seems during high lag times the failures are more frequent than low lag times.
Lag shouldnt make a difference but it does.
Wixa
Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:21 am
#600
I'm not sure what problems others have had. The thing I find most annoying is that you seem to get more failures the higher you get into the profession. I have done 30 professions so far and have done every one that has crafting associated with it and have had this problem with all professions. I don't have a significant amount of failures but I seem to get more when I'm master than I did when I was working my way up. It doesn't have anything to do with resource type or quality or crafting toold/stations as I buy enough resources to get through each profession befor I start and allways use the same stuff throught my grind. Also the tools and stations are allways the same. May be worth looking into.
Scoooter
Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:23 am
#601
AltharXXX wrote:
Um - Scoooter - you are a master doc, so you must have some idea what it takes to get an 867 buff pack. Let me put it this way. I've never bothered to improve the quality of my dolivte iron since it's the best to have spawned on my server. domestic oats I'm sure then can improve - but they matter little since all my advanced components were 'static' for this experiment. My Reactive Gas was OQ 867 at that time and my Avian is OQ+PE> 1987. (The Gas and the Avian is all that counts for the experiementation on a buff pack - and a loss of 50 points is significant.)
This thread has really died - it would be nice if it was revisited. I think the problem doctors see is that the improvement % tapers off as you raise it.
I'm all for reducing the critical failures we all see - it's not so bad that at novice medic I see about 75% failures in experiementation. But the rate is still too high for all the professions at master. For example;
I mastered weaponsmith. Went to a town with research bonus. Put on my +7weapon assemblyand +6 experimentation outfit. All of these results were done with 1 step at a time. ie 10 single experiements. (I didn't keep track of failures, there were quiet a few.)
Icrafted 10 flame throwers. I did not see a single amazing success. (0 in 100)
I crafted 6 advanced reinforcement cores (to make a schematic) 1 saw 1 amazing success. (1 in 60) (3 of the 6 had crit failures)
I crafted 8 power hammers. I saw 0 amazing successes.
...
What SoE did wrong here - was they had ajustified issue. They decided to address it. (that was a good thing.) But they amended it will a nerf.
Well currently there are going to be nerfs accross the board because of armor and buffs.
Forcing people to use high quality resource in order to make uber items wouold have lessened that.
Personally I have always strived for quality resource and it should mean something.
I know several crafters it was not a nerf to, including myself because we always got the best resource. But the average person it would.
Now with the combat rebalance the nerf bat will swiing hard at everything so it probably does not matter
Bloodfin_Architect
Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:48 am
#603
I have noticed at least one thing about critical failures. They are almost always followed up by either a second critical failure or an amazing success. That aside, I believe the crafting success rates should be weighted based on experience, template difficulty, tool/crafting station quality, and resource quality. If a master decides to use poor resources, than he/she should accept the fact the chance of a critical failure will increase.
I also tracked all my assembly and experimentation attempts for armorsmith and I believe this probably holds true for other professions. I discovered very quickly that there is absolutely no correlation between a great initial assembly success and the chance for a great experimentation success. In fact, in most cases an amazing initial assembly is followed by a critical failure or partial failure during experimentation.Why is there not some tie between the two? The tracking also reveled that most players will waste theirtime trying to experiment before they reach experimentation 3 in their persepective crafting field. The rate of poor experimentation at novice, level 1 and level2 or just abysmal. However,upon reaching level 3 there is no significant difference between experimentation success rates from the there through master.Below are theresults of my test for level 1 and 2 of armorsmith:
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Okay, like everyone else I am curious about the actual sucess rates on crafting. These are my results from crafting 100 Mabari chest plates. I have 2 0 0 2 armorsmith skills and 3 experimental points and am using grinding level mateial. I am also a master artisan and master architect. I'll let everyone be the judge of the data.
Initial Assembly (Developers say there is a 5% failure rate)
Failure Rate --------------------------------------- 6%
Success Rate less than Great Success -- 27%
Great Success ---------------------------------- 63%
Amazing Success ------------------------------ 4%
Expermental Assembly (Computer Predicted Failure Rate 26% to 29%)
Failure Rate --------------------------------------- 15%
Success Rate less than Great Success --- 57%
Great Success ----------------------------------- 28%
Amazing Success ------------------------------- 0%
All 100 pieces were crafted with the same resources. Experimental assemply success had no correlation with the intitial assembly success; ie., amazing successes returned experimental failures and a plain success returned experimental great successes. The resources returned consistent results based on the success of the craft. The crafting tool used has a +14.23 rating and the crafting station has a rating of +32.58.
Nod
Master Architect - Master Artisan - Master Merchant - Novice Armorsmith (Bloodfin)
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Eywe
Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:20 pm
#604
Well now you can soon do force crafting and that should thrwo and nice wrench into the game 
kkelly9
Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:04 pm
#605
masters shouldnt have critical fails at all. i spent enough game time going up the trees to make quality pets. i spend hours tracking down very high level creatures to sample and usually die doing so multiple times. then i have to waste the dna trying to figure out what the best combo will be, and then go die a bunch getting some more. i get everything experimented just right and get the template made, just to get a critical failure when i put the template with the other stuff, to which i cannot even experiment on. and i get a failure?! all the stuff we go through to get our materials and learn our craft is enough WORK. i dont play games to be frustrated with things out of my control. i find myself looking for a different game to play becuase im wookie and cant pvp against all the other uber armor, and cant craft as well as others either becuase i cant wear the uber aprons. which leaves BE which actually allows me to be on the same level as other BEs, but with the failures it isnt worth the time to pursue any further. which leaves me sitting in cnet enjoying the spam im not supposed to have to read anymore.
Galdara
Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:03 am
#606
Failures are acceptable on subcomponents. Failures are NOT acceptable on final combines - especially by masters. Failures include anything not being GREAT on experimentation. Thinking that is not the case shows who ever tested this doesn't play the game.
Dameos
Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:59 pm
#607
Failure Rates?!? shouldnt the question be how many successes do you get? hahaha
I am a master Artisan, Master Armorsmith (kinda a useless combo sicne there is only the PSG's that use the master artisan schematics... by the way WTH is the nemoidian Birdcage for?!?
Anyhow I have talked with many many other crafters about the Master artisan schematics, and all of them say that the "quality" or "Integrity" of the item doesnt do anything... Perhaps it does... Perhaps the people that are getting a ton of failures arent completely experimenting on every sub component?!? just a possibility.
Also are you using the best possible resources for each sub combine? I have noticed that dependant on the OQ of the resources will determine the Outcome of your assembly and your experimentation even if the item doesnt "consider" OQ a needed statistic.. I remember a ways back in the forums dunno if it was stickied or what or if it even happened but i remember a post from some "red name" about OQ will effect everything ...
Personaly i am sick of planet hopping every 8 days to try and place my harvesters and seeing 50 harvesters already there.. and not a decent concentration anywhere else on the planet... Put in a publish somewhere restricting "Strip Mining" by non crafter classes... granted it is nice to be able to ask around and find that rare resource you missed last cycle, but it is frustrating having to pay 10cpu for it because you missed it and the master commando had 10 harvesters on it...
Whats the point of making a ton of money there is nothing to buyin the game that costs millions upon millions of credits... heh AV21 Power cores... oh no if you got 2 billion creds to offer for one, chances are you can get your own by actualy doing the quests Leave the harvesting, and crafting to the crafters, and leave the hunting and killing to the combat types... thats my outlook..
MaxSavage
Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:33 pm
#608
Louie5581 wrote:
the massive increases in critical failures occur during period of high lag on the server. On scylla crafting during the morning during the week will produce very few critical failures, but crafting during the afternoon on a weekend will produce critical failures 50%+ of the time.
Actually, he's 1/2 right.
If you have LOCAL lag, your failure rate will go up. To test this, simply start a ton of downloads, and then try crafting. I have had over a 90% failure rate with huge lag on my end.
ockeew
Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:44 pm
#609
from my experience with the current system, My jedi armorsmith who wears +25/+25 AS clothes, 15.00 tools, and 44.49 station in a research center.. I never crit fail or get less than great experiemtnion/assembly. ok well not never... but out of makign about 100 things.. i think one of them crit failed. that was fine with me.
on my doc.. who crafts using 44.49 staion 14.91 too, , in a research center, wearing +7 med assembly - crit fails all the time on buff pack assembly. takes me up to 10x to get the thing to work. its annoying yes, but i dont' see it as a problem. Crafting isn't supposed to be easy...
EdenLuv
Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:44 pm
#610
The failure rates you reported are based on seperate attempts at crafting or combined attempts?.. If you combine the numbers you are talking about, there is close to a 9 percent failure rate..I have noticed that we only get amazing successes after a moderate success..You give and take away resulting in mediocre weapons with no outstanding ones for time and effort that we as crafters put into our chores. We are supporting players and their need to have equipment yet you reward us with mundane figures and mediocre results. You drop exceptional weapons as loot, yet you dont give the crafter who works long hours harvesting, crafting and fine tuning their skills any reward. Why is the looter favoured over the crafter?
Ess'ence, Master Weaponsmith, Bria Server
Ess'ence, Master Weaponsmith, Bria Server
cid666
Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:04 am
#611
Hello all,
I am wondering if the same equasion is used for dna sampling success rates as for crafting.
Critical failures for BE are pretty bad too, especially since almost every component could be considered rare. But, it does make sense that they are destroyed, considering the nature of the crafting. However, I do agree that other resources shouldn't "poof" when critical failure happens. You ever heard of recycling? I mean, sure, you put in 200 units of metal, where did it go?
--Cid666, Master Bio-Engineer
I also figured out why you can't get DNA from the meat, hide, or bone of a creature. The Midichlorians wreck the DNA when the creature dies!
"Let's trash the place and get outta here!"
--Midichlorians
I am wondering if the same equasion is used for dna sampling success rates as for crafting.
Critical failures for BE are pretty bad too, especially since almost every component could be considered rare. But, it does make sense that they are destroyed, considering the nature of the crafting. However, I do agree that other resources shouldn't "poof" when critical failure happens. You ever heard of recycling? I mean, sure, you put in 200 units of metal, where did it go?
--Cid666, Master Bio-Engineer
I also figured out why you can't get DNA from the meat, hide, or bone of a creature. The Midichlorians wreck the DNA when the creature dies!
"Let's trash the place and get outta here!"
--Midichlorians