Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC4: Path of the Jedi
exe-gr
Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:38 pm
#40
you want it rare? How rare?
Find a csr or two, give them master jedi titleness and have them randomly log on on random timespaces of no less than a week next to a randomly chosen player from the database.
For your sake, i hope the csr assigned to do that is a roleplayer.
And i also presume you can take it from there on.
NotSevLaurence
Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:39 pm
#41
For some good quest ideas pick up an old school West End Games 2nd Edition Gamemaster Screen.
donnah42
Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:39 pm
#42
Please make it so that FS is unlocked by actually using the skills that you have (or the knowledge of the actual player) instead of having to ruin your character concept and get other professions. Those of us who are crafters or healers should not have to take combat skills to get FS. We should also not have to do things that would make no sense for our characters (like find a random mission spawn out in the wilderness).
Crafting missions could include things like multi-leg missions to earn the components we'd need, puzzles (which would actually challenge the user not just the character), or quizzes on our crafting profession (or questions on general game knowledge). Just a few ideas, I'll try and think of more later.
Crafting missions could include things like multi-leg missions to earn the components we'd need, puzzles (which would actually challenge the user not just the character), or quizzes on our crafting profession (or questions on general game knowledge). Just a few ideas, I'll try and think of more later.
Phazorn
Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:44 pm
#43
i'd like to see some rare and secret quests, kinda like the 4 acts, that give massive jedi exp for completing
symbol of heroism = like 3 million jedi exp (or even the impossible jedi apprentice exp)
i think jedi must do some kinda jedi-like quest in order to become a master (at the very least, maybe a quest for the padawan box, another for jedi knight, and a final epic for master)
Ekhben
Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:47 pm
#44
Let's look at Luke's journey to become a Jedi.
First, he reached the ANH equivalent of Padawan status basically by meeting Obi-Wan. We can model this process:
Rare[0] random[1] spawns in the wilderness will offer a simple delivery quest to a static NPC[2]. This quest is the start of your path to Force Sensitivity.
The static NPC will offer a few of the trivial quests offered by existing static NPCs. However, if you've done that delivery job, he will offer a further set of quests; I suggest quests that aid people in need, rather than destructive quests, since a Jedi should seek to serve the Force, not the other way around. Even if the player wishes to be a dark jedi, the one giving the tasks probably does not wish them to be.
It is up to you here to decide how many quests there are, if those quests spawn multiple people and so on. My personal preference is that the completion of these quests should be an offer:
Billy-Bob NPC says to Queeble, 'I sense in you much power, my friend. If you wish, I can teach you the ways of the Force. The first step, however, is always to unlearn what you have learned. Do you wish to learn?'
Accepting No will forever close that character's ability to be Force Sensitive. Accepting Yes will cause the character's existing skills to be completely revoked, and the character to become Force Sensitive, irreversibly. The player may at this point create a new character on that server, who will never be able to become Force Sensitive.
This provides the continuity that the character who quested for the Force Sensitivity is the one who gets it. It also allows for that NPC to be your FSCS trainer. If it is technically infeasible, the NPC should direct the player to a new NPC, who will be the FSCS slot character's trainer.
Now the character is a Novice Padawan, and life changes dramatically. The NPC will immediately offer a new set of quests, this time for the components for the Padawan's light saber. Bear in mind that the Padawan will have no real abilities at this point, and the quests should reflect this. In other words, a Novice Padawan should not require a Krayt Pearl. Similarly, at this point the Padawan's trainer believes them to follow the Light Side of the Force, and the quests should reflect this. As a suggestion, the Padawan could be tasked with carrying vital medical supplies to a remote farmer, who had discovered a force crystal while digging up a new field, or perhaps you are sent to check for survivors in a crashed escape pod; fortunately the pod was empty and presumably just a malfunction, but the power regulator would be perfect for the lightsaber.
We then note that Luke is trained by Obi-Wan as they progress on an important and dangerous quest. Unfortunately, this quest costs Obi-Wan his life, but it also allows Luke to grow as a person, progressing to the ANH equivalent of a Novice Jedi. We model this:
After the player has reached Master Padawan, their NPC trainer will not teach them any further skills. Instead, a set of quests will be offered to allow the player to find their next trainer. Ideally, these quests will be able to follow two paths, and the path chosen by the player will dictate their Light/Dark nature. For example, your Master might say that a local gang has been harassing a family. You can complete the quest by finding the gang and slaughtering them all, though your Master will be saddened. You can also complete the quest by talking to the leader, and discovering that the gang is in fact a group ostracised unfairly by the townsfolk, who are merely trying to recover a precious item. In the first case, the story will be over, and the next story will begin. In the second case, your Master will send you to the family to learn more.
Finally, your Master will direct you elsewhere for further training, pleading old age or infirmity or inability or some such. If you feel up to it, you could even have the Master slain, and his blue glowy directs you on, but that might be going too far.
Following Luke further, he essentially completes more drawn out and involved quests at each stage of his development. He moves through Jedi, with one failed attempt to save his friends on Bespin, followed by a successful attempt in Jabba's palace. He becomes a Jedi Knight after his quest to save his father's soul is completed; incidentally destroying the Emperor in the process.
In the EU, he becomes a Master after further struggles.
The key points here are:
1) The path to FSCS is started by a mission given by a wandering NPC.
2) The path cannot be started until certain criteria have been met by the character
3) The path should be tailored to the playing style of the player
4) The path should reflect a life of dedication to the Force
5) It would be nice if the character could /become/ force sensitive
6) The lightsaber components will come from quests. The first set of components should come from the initial quests offered by the NPC, but dynamic POI style spawns should crop up from time to time, some of which will give saber components, allowing for variability in the lightsabers.
7) This questing tradition is also the transition from Padawan to Jedi, and Jedi to Knight, and Knight to Master. At each transition, the player may move to the Dark Side, though I'm at a loss to explain how they might reverse that transition.
[0] Use a sensible definition of rare, not the definition used for Arachne Widow babies.
[1] Alternatively, key the likelihood of the spawn off useful information about the character. I would suggest things like total # of quests accomplished, certain badges received, and specific requirements on 'main' quest series. The more of these things a player has done, the more likely the spawn is to appear.
[2] The ideal situation would be to have the static NPC chosen based according to the profession you are most proficient in, favouring elite professions over novice professions, and selecting randomly from equal professions. This way, you can tailor the quests to various play styles.
First, he reached the ANH equivalent of Padawan status basically by meeting Obi-Wan. We can model this process:
Rare[0] random[1] spawns in the wilderness will offer a simple delivery quest to a static NPC[2]. This quest is the start of your path to Force Sensitivity.
The static NPC will offer a few of the trivial quests offered by existing static NPCs. However, if you've done that delivery job, he will offer a further set of quests; I suggest quests that aid people in need, rather than destructive quests, since a Jedi should seek to serve the Force, not the other way around. Even if the player wishes to be a dark jedi, the one giving the tasks probably does not wish them to be.
It is up to you here to decide how many quests there are, if those quests spawn multiple people and so on. My personal preference is that the completion of these quests should be an offer:
Billy-Bob NPC says to Queeble, 'I sense in you much power, my friend. If you wish, I can teach you the ways of the Force. The first step, however, is always to unlearn what you have learned. Do you wish to learn?'
Accepting No will forever close that character's ability to be Force Sensitive. Accepting Yes will cause the character's existing skills to be completely revoked, and the character to become Force Sensitive, irreversibly. The player may at this point create a new character on that server, who will never be able to become Force Sensitive.
This provides the continuity that the character who quested for the Force Sensitivity is the one who gets it. It also allows for that NPC to be your FSCS trainer. If it is technically infeasible, the NPC should direct the player to a new NPC, who will be the FSCS slot character's trainer.
Now the character is a Novice Padawan, and life changes dramatically. The NPC will immediately offer a new set of quests, this time for the components for the Padawan's light saber. Bear in mind that the Padawan will have no real abilities at this point, and the quests should reflect this. In other words, a Novice Padawan should not require a Krayt Pearl. Similarly, at this point the Padawan's trainer believes them to follow the Light Side of the Force, and the quests should reflect this. As a suggestion, the Padawan could be tasked with carrying vital medical supplies to a remote farmer, who had discovered a force crystal while digging up a new field, or perhaps you are sent to check for survivors in a crashed escape pod; fortunately the pod was empty and presumably just a malfunction, but the power regulator would be perfect for the lightsaber.
We then note that Luke is trained by Obi-Wan as they progress on an important and dangerous quest. Unfortunately, this quest costs Obi-Wan his life, but it also allows Luke to grow as a person, progressing to the ANH equivalent of a Novice Jedi. We model this:
After the player has reached Master Padawan, their NPC trainer will not teach them any further skills. Instead, a set of quests will be offered to allow the player to find their next trainer. Ideally, these quests will be able to follow two paths, and the path chosen by the player will dictate their Light/Dark nature. For example, your Master might say that a local gang has been harassing a family. You can complete the quest by finding the gang and slaughtering them all, though your Master will be saddened. You can also complete the quest by talking to the leader, and discovering that the gang is in fact a group ostracised unfairly by the townsfolk, who are merely trying to recover a precious item. In the first case, the story will be over, and the next story will begin. In the second case, your Master will send you to the family to learn more.
Finally, your Master will direct you elsewhere for further training, pleading old age or infirmity or inability or some such. If you feel up to it, you could even have the Master slain, and his blue glowy directs you on, but that might be going too far.
Following Luke further, he essentially completes more drawn out and involved quests at each stage of his development. He moves through Jedi, with one failed attempt to save his friends on Bespin, followed by a successful attempt in Jabba's palace. He becomes a Jedi Knight after his quest to save his father's soul is completed; incidentally destroying the Emperor in the process.
In the EU, he becomes a Master after further struggles.
The key points here are:
1) The path to FSCS is started by a mission given by a wandering NPC.
2) The path cannot be started until certain criteria have been met by the character
3) The path should be tailored to the playing style of the player
4) The path should reflect a life of dedication to the Force
5) It would be nice if the character could /become/ force sensitive
6) The lightsaber components will come from quests. The first set of components should come from the initial quests offered by the NPC, but dynamic POI style spawns should crop up from time to time, some of which will give saber components, allowing for variability in the lightsabers.
7) This questing tradition is also the transition from Padawan to Jedi, and Jedi to Knight, and Knight to Master. At each transition, the player may move to the Dark Side, though I'm at a loss to explain how they might reverse that transition.
[0] Use a sensible definition of rare, not the definition used for Arachne Widow babies.
[1] Alternatively, key the likelihood of the spawn off useful information about the character. I would suggest things like total # of quests accomplished, certain badges received, and specific requirements on 'main' quest series. The more of these things a player has done, the more likely the spawn is to appear.
[2] The ideal situation would be to have the static NPC chosen based according to the profession you are most proficient in, favouring elite professions over novice professions, and selecting randomly from equal professions. This way, you can tailor the quests to various play styles.
Maarek_Steele
Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:48 pm
#45
For the FS quest thing:
Not so much of a quest, but how about a point system? Doing certain quests earns you points, but so do other things.
For example, make it so there are three groups: healing, artisan, and combat. Each group has an equal amount of points assigned to it, but you only need to get, say, 3/4 of the total amount of points. To get points, there are many ways. Example: healing. The number of unique people you heal gets you points. The amount you actually heal for gets you points. Artisan: the number of experimentation points you use gets you points. Using the experimentation points one at a time earns points. The quality of the materials you use earns points. Combat: the frequency you initiate combat induces a lesser number of points, outside of missions. Harvesting the creatures you kill earns points (not wasting the bodies.)
Basically, count small things that a Jedi-type would do, but not necessarily a power-gamer. The quests and badges could still have an influence, but I think others have that covered.
Also, I think there should be some attempt to put RPing into the system. For example, you could shift the requirments for a Mon Calamari towards peaceful goals. I also don't see a problem with CSRs and the events team awarding small amounts of points (maybe as people get large amounts of points, put their names on a list to allow CSRs to be available to boost them a very small amount.) Finally, I think the idea of randomness that was somewhat present with the current system should be maintained.
Zito75
Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:50 pm
#46
The one thing I hope these quests avoid...though I know they wont anyways...are quests to go find some rare component that either, A. Can be bought for 5 million credits, or B. Is impossible to find.
Please..oh please do not do the "go find this rare item and bring it back to me quests".
Some thoughts as to what quests should consist of:
- 2 Totally Different Paths - There should be two totally different paths, one Dark Jedi, one regular Jedi. They should, however, be the same quests, just with the "dark" added in or the "light" added in.
- Combat Quests - Quests where NPC's assign "positive" assassinations...if possible. Dark Jedi's would get more assassinations, "light" (what the hell do we call non-dark jedis?) Jedi's would get more creature removal, or training combat.
- Crafting Quests - The fact that crafting is a big part of the game shouldn't be ignored in the quests...no matter how uninvolved it is with Jedi's. Give the player a schematic, find the resources, and deliever. Or possibly have the item help the player in their path to becomming a Jedi.
- Recon/Exploration - Travel...travel, and travel some more. Jedi's need to know about the galaxy. Have quests delivering (recon), and possibly discovering POI (exploration).
- "Find this item" - Like I said, I know it's going to be there...the "Find me this rare item and bring it back to me" quest. Please, make it something possible to find, because we know that people will cheat and sell the items. Making it "non-droppable" doesn't help either, we've found ways to pass that. This is where I suggest having holocrons come into place. Perfect setup for Dark and Light Jedi's (I still don't think "light" is the right term?). Dark need to find sith, Light need to find the normal holocrons.
- Holocron Use - Well, you guys said it yourself on the "Friday Feature", those trying to become Jedis under the current system aren't going to be forgotten. So, I already mentioned one way, delivering holocrons. But thats not really fair, what does that have to do with grinding professions? So, we could have this be the scenario for the very beginning of the quests: NPC instructs player to find a mysterious item called a holocron (regular or sith depending on side) and bring it back to him/her. When returned, the NPC will tell the player what the holocron said, and the player should master that skill, then return to the NPC when done...That will be their "main" skill on their path to becomming a Jedi. Those that have already completed a holocron can pass this quest by simply just bringing back a holocron to the NPC. What other way could you "return the favor" to those already working on the current system? Give them a bye on the first part of the quests.
- Time-Frame - I was worried when I saw that "Quests would take place over a long period of time". I hope that this doesn't mean that it will work like the Cries of Arcaadia, one quest opening a month...That would just suck, people should be able to go at their own pace, if they're ahead, hell, they deserve it, let them become a Jedi before everyone else.
Well here are my thoughts...hope this is taken into consideration...TH, I just hope you clear up soon, are the quests comming in Publish 7?
Bridonar
Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:51 pm
#47
First and foremost, thank you for everything TH
Now... down to business.
One thing I definitely do NOT want to see in the FS quest is the need for a group. The path to unlocking the FSCS should be a personal one,so there is no way a friend should help you. Another thing I would like to see in the quests are puzzles of some sort, things requiring you to think over and over before you get them right. Riddles,incomplete sequences, something.
Also, for the dark jedi/light jedi quests, I don't think there should be two different quests. One would go speak to the NPC, and this NPC, instead of giving two different quests, one for light jedi and one for sith, would give one. The decisions you make during that quest would determine jedi or sith. You will have to roleplay either a good or evil person, and that will determine your path. After all, you want to insure that a dark jedi is capable of roleplaying an evil person. The same thing goesfor a light jedi.
Dirrill_Nigar
Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:58 pm
#48
I don't have the time to read all of the ideas here, so I'll just add a few addendums to what I think the system should include...
I do think that NPC missions should be involved, but they should be the farthest from static NPCs and/or missions. Some should be from random strangers you encounter in the wilds of exotic planets... They shouldn't be entirely random, though, you should be led to them by the Force. Each character should have a certain level of Force intuitiveness, a hidden stat that really is an experience bar that brings you closer to Jedi. Anyway, the higher your Force intuitiveness is, the farther you should be able to sense these random encounters from. Then once you encounter them, they will lecture you to a certain extent on the Force. Afterwards, they will test you. For example...
Dirrill has been combing the sands of Lok for the last hour or so. He had the feeling that something important was in the area, and refused to leave until he found it. Then, in the distance, he made out the visage of some robed figure. Fighting his way through the sandstorm, he pulled up beside the traveller.
"Are you lost, friend?" Dirrill says, trying to catch a glimpse at the stranger's face.
The stranger stared straight ahead. "Many who find themselves in a place like this might need help. I, on the other hand, do not. A Jedi would do well to help those who would find themselves isolated in such a dangerous situation."
Dirrill scratched his furry Bothan head. Before he could ask what this lunatic was talking about, he saw a woman and her child dashing towards him through the storm. Slipping on his vibroknuckles, he dashed to meet them, and quickly spotted two frothing Mynocks on their tails. He quickly defeated the beasts, and turned around to see if the strangers were okay. Much to his surprise, they and the wanderer had both disappeared.
Similar tests could be done where the wanderer starts attacking the avatar, hitting for very very low damage, and continues to until the character peaces (passes) or kills him (fails). You could also invoke knowledge of the SWU, and have the character identify a smuggler out of a lineup of people with "CorSec," "Meatlump," and "Greck" names.
These should be supplemented by NPC missions initiated in cities, testing other Jedi-oriented qualities. NPCs could randomly wander into town, but look like regular PCs, and ask for medical help. As soon as someone heals them, for whatever amount, they disappear, and add to the person's Force intuitiveness. The options here are also limitless...
Dirrill rued ever having to set foot in Mos Eisley. Wandering the streets just to get to the local bazaar usually meant having to deal with any number of vagrants and addicts who would rather panhandle in the streets all day rather than do a good day's work. With this in mind, he hustled his way through the streets.
Sitting next to the bazaar was a man with tired eyes in clearly poorly-made clothes. He looked up at Dirrill (which is no small feat, as Dirrill was extremely diminutive), and asked with cold honesty, "Hello, sir, could you spot me 200 credits so I could hop a trip to Bestine? I need to deliver some goods there, and as the old addage says, you gotta have money to make money..."
Having been a businessman for many years now, Dirrill tossed him a thousand credits. His coins thudded quietly as they hit the sand, and the stranger was gone.
That's just a couple small ideas. I just want to see the path to Jedi at least SOMEWHAT entail RPing skills, that way the players that become Jedis tend to actually be cooperative and behave like Jedi, rather than the current system that has servers full of powergamers being rewarded.
WolfeTCK
Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:01 pm
#49
not to ask a question, but is this a thread asking for suggestions on how to achieve force senstivity and then quests related to going threw teh jedi ranks? or just what quests should exist to allow a jedi to advance to jedi master
personally to achieve force sensitivity, its a very complex thing, first, how to balance it so that every player can achieve this, but make it tough so that servers wont have 1000 jedis on them, i pray that jedis dont have a max number set per server, it would kill servers when the max was hit and then everyone moved to a new server, having a ton of jedis wont kill the game, i do not play this game to be 100% dead on to star wars, if so then why would i be a wookiee bounty hunter, who even though wookiees arent supposed to be materialisitc, i have 3 houses full of stuff i collect, so then i guess i dont fit in with the game, so stop whining, if you do not like the idea of 1000 jedis, then quit the game, i personally like the idea, i want to have my own jedi, i want to have large jedi battles, light vs dark, raging battles of force powers of lightsabers
now on to becoming a jedi, random spawning npcs would kill teh game even more then grinding, just think of the entire population spending all day and nite biking around every planet looking for the npc, the game would become a giant hide and seek game, and when found the wp would be posted and 50 ppl would be onto it in 5 minutes. I think to become a jedi, random things should be achieved, perhaps certain poi's would be "force sensitive" in nature and when u visit it, part of the force would stick to u, and when u acheieve the poi's that would help, now yah that would start a giant go here and get a badge game, but it makes sense that you goto a poi, say its the jedi ruins on dant, and part of the force sticks with you, and when you get the number of poi's under your belt, you can goto part 2, now that may seem like the dumbest idea ever, but most jedi are discovered when they are found by a jedi who can sense there force sensitivity, perhaps a npc will spawn at a different poi, and will either tell you that he/she sense the force within you and wants to train you, or will tell you that you are close, mayb even teh poi is the jedi ruins, its always there and you can go there to check how far you've come along
its gotta be quest based, but not combat based, since most jedi are discovered at a young age, its fair to say that they didnt get discovered by killing a large creature
its gotta take awhile, mayb when you start, you do a quest for knowledge, then you gain the knowledge and the next part wouldnt start for a few weeks, it should be something that every single player can do, but shouldnt require things that only certain professions can do, ex. crafting, surveying, fighting
i know im about as clear as lisa simpsons class when giving ideas for a new toy at christmas time, but the quest to becoming a jedi has to be tedious to a point where you dont wanna do it anymore, but not because the mob you have to kill is destroying u every time, assisted or not
Ebonfire
Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:01 pm
#50
As far as the force sensitive quests go.. Please...
- Make it flow, and never allow progression to stall from having to compete for spawns, or random spawing quest NPCs. I can handle driving 2000 miles, but not down a road with stoplights every mile, or 24/7 rush hour traffic.
- Make it so it can be soloed, either with a crafter or combat profession. I would hate to see a bunch of FS quest cookie cutter character templetes come out. Have the difficulty for combat quests consistent with master professions lvl 25-35; ect. Attaining a jedi should be an individual thing.
- Make economic status irrelevant. What I mean by that is.. make any quest/path items are nodrop (like current Jedi quest holos)to discourage camping whatever drops those items, and also to ensure that the person dosen't go out and buy their way through quests.
If I had control over the revamp, I would leave holo grinding for holos 1-4. Once a character reaches his/her silent holo, then that holo would direct the player to an NPC to start force sensitive trials.
Force Sensitive trials idea:
Every 2 weeks force sensitive trials would start, and players would be given tasks to complete every day.. like bring a rare resource that can only be sampled with a special tool they are given, and the resource spawn shifts every hour or so. Each time they turn an item in, or gain a kill count ect., they are given points. The top 5% at the end of a period (maybe 3-4 weeks) would then be granted a force sensitive slot.
Once the force sensitivecharacter is created it will have a period of time to make it past the initiate stage, and a limited amout of deaths. If the character fails to reach its goal then you go back to the force sensitive trails..
These are just my ideas, no need to flame. Thanks
FuelerMcDaven
Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:06 pm
#51
Gaining FSCS Quest Ideas
The quest leading to opening up the FSCS should teach the player all the skills to being a jedi. If a player opens their FSCS and does not know how to use it effectively they will become frustrated. An example would be an entertainer that has never fought before that has opened up their FSCS and now it's combat time....
Players should not have to do multiple professions but they must try a few key ones so they are not a fish out of water.
These quest should be along the lines of BH missions, only the quester should be able to do them. This game facilitates teamwork but no one else is going to level your jedi for you so why set the tone of being a jedi that way.
Tralmek
Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:20 pm
#52
The main thing I want to see is a long, involved process that could require months to complete. Missions should be extensive and involved. Going from the movies we know that the path to becoming a Jedi is not a simple matter, you have to devote your life to the Force.
I would love to see missions that require groups to complete, something like this: Bounty Hunter tracks down NPC and kills NPC's captors. NPC is close to death. Doctors and Entertainers work together to heal NPC. NPC unable to walk to safety, so crafter makes a special vehicle for NPC...
This game is about community, and players should be encouraged to interact as much as possible, this means that the "less popular" professions such as crafters, entertainers, and doctors should be integral to the process of becoming Jedi.
For those of you who belive that Jedi is nothing but PvP fighting all day long, remember we are 'living' in the EU here, so here are some great Jedi from the EU whohave expanded beyond thefight...
Cilgahl - Jedi Healer
Ikrit - Teacher
Jacen Solo - Creature Handler
Tionne - Musician
Whatever happens to the Jedi quests, they should not be dedicated simply to combat classes.
-Tralmek