Development Cycle Archive

Hey all! I'm getting in on this topic late, as well. Hrrmmmm.

I'm not liking some of the basic concepts coming through, here:

1: will not add anything to 'upset' the crafters.

2: this is not an 'uber loot' game.

One caveat: You'll never really see me singing the praises of DAoC. I dislike the game for very many reasons---which, thankfully, are beyond the scope of this topic. But one thing I *can* say is that DAoC is not an 'uber-loot' game. Sure, there are powerful item drops from some of the 'mobs' in various 'dungeons', but crafters in that game can make better. No one is required to go on Darkness Falls raids for all the high end items dropped by the baddies in the depths----though we did so for the challenge of it. The Items dropped were usually auctioned off similarly to EQ----but they really weren't necessary. My lvl 45 Runemaster had one of the most powerful staffs from there which, at the time, was too powerful for my character. Trying to use it would begin to wear it down. But I carried it simply for the 'cool factor'. It 'looked' better, more interesting than the routine drops or merchandise available to me. DAoC is not, however, a Crafter-Centric Game---i.e. the game does not revolve around the Crafting Profession. They are integral to the game, but they do not dominate it, as in SWG.

And this brings me back to the topic: I ask this: Why aren't you, Q, worried about upsetting the Non-Crafters who want logical and sensible rewards for their efforts? I'm not playing this game so I can engage in endless crafting or hunting for resources so I can craft nor to funnel such things to Crafters. I'm playing so I can make my character the best at his profession so he can best serve his chosen side in the various factions.

Star Wars is about factions in a Galactic War. It's not about Crafting, hunting resources, constantly reaping wealth (remember Leia: if money is all you care about, then that's what you'll receive) for the sake of wealth or, ugh, yet more Crafting. In fact, I would go so far as to say this: Star Wars is all about learning the important things in life: fighting for an ideal; doing your best; seeking adventure; righting 'wrongs'; using your abilities in a 'worthy cause' etc, and so on.

So, I will say for certain, I would not engage a long, arduous Quest or Dungeon simply to return with a schematic for yet MORE crafting. That's not why I'm in a Star Wars game. And, no, I'll not do it for the pieces of junk that currently drop, either.

As is stated more clearly in a post on the discussion bboards, I think you guys have coded yourself into a corner. There's no real way for you to install any sort of thematic rewards in Quests or Dungeons because you have chosen to make this game Crafter-Centric. You, yourself, state in this very post that this is your 'objective'. Until you guys realize that this is the very thing that most nullifies the 'starwarsiness' of your game, you'll stay in that code-corner wondering why no one thinks your game is Star Wars.

As for me, I like your game or I wouldn't pay and play---nor would I bother to post on these bboards But, it's not Star Wars. And, as such, I cannot offer you suggestions on proper Star Wars rewards. Maybe once the Space Exp is out I'll have a better handle on it. Anyway, good luck.

Kirk2

And for architects, add something that keeps them in business, since nothing they create has decay there is only so many building, furnitures crafting stations people will need. So maybe figure out a way to add schematics for player vehicles to the architect line. or schematics on crafting stations personal crafting stations that offer only amazing successes with minimal failures. Or schematics on building that take up smaller amounts of lots then current building.New business buildings designs schematics or schematics for gardens and external building enhancements like fences, billboards for advertiments green houses, Labs that Bio Engineers need to make better creatures, Bakery that Chefs need for better food. Basically adding building that offer specific crafting bonuses. Armory, Tailor Factory.. And Shops that really look like shops, not just these basic homes and building that people turn into home/shops or storage locations, even building that are storage facilities which offer 500 storage cap. (Allow experimentation to mean something in architecture: better design, larger, smaller, coloring for buildings, this is probably something that goes in the architect forms) Offer Museums which people can put creatures in or what ever.

You want us to live in them game.. well take a look at the world around you and make the game more like it.

I haven't read everything so bear with me if this has been suggested before:

What about INFORMATION?

Example:
You get a waypoint for a verry good ressource. Just like a mission lair it spawns only if you get close to there yourself so that noone can steal it from you. You can set up a harvester at this point and get a real good ressource, that sells really well on the market. If you are not a crafter yourself, you could sell this information to another crafter. Or maybe you could make it so that you sell it to a crafter and he sets up his harvester and you get admin rights of the harvester, too. Or so that you get a percentage off what he harvests.

Same could maybe go for a waypoint for a lair of creatures that give great ressources for a scout or that has many babies of a rare kind for CHs to tame.


I also like the idea of decorative items. Anyone remember the system of X-Wing Alliance where you would get items after your missions to hang on the walls of your cabin? That was great...

Here are a few of my own thoughts on some new items and a few concerns. I feel if you want to keep people interested in the game for a long period of time, your definitely going to need to add some more items as loot. How you add the items is equally as critical in my opinion. If you add things so people can just do a mission, then they have the item, then your going to be in the same boat. Once they get all the items, then they have nothing to shoot for. I would suggest, for example, people are asking for more paintings. Make a lot of different paintings available, but awarded randomly through missions. Make some more rare than others. Also give some of the npcs a chance of giving something good as loot. Here is a list of a few things I have thought of.

1.A large selection of paintings, rewarded randomly.
2.A very rare teleporter pad that you can place in your house. You can link it to only one city on the planet the house is placed on and you can never use while fighting. You could include a tool that would teleport you back to your house from the bank of the city the teleporter is set for.
3.Very rare books of knowledge. They raise your skill points by 5, 10, 15, 20 or 25 points. I play a bounty hunter. And to be a master bounty hunter you have just enough points left to have a little bit of healing. I would like to be able to have a vendor in my house, which I currently have, but will have to get rid of as I get higher in bounty hunter skill. And you cant price items above 3k on the bazaar. Or just allow anyone who owns a home to place the very basic vendor.
4.Statues of all the main starwars characters.
5.A wide range of new schematics for crafters. Powerful weapons schematics with one or two uses which include certificates, armor, window schematics, carpeting, new droids, creature armor, randomly colored porch lamps and some other things for the other crafting professions.
6.Dye tubs. So people can alter the colors of their favorite piece of armor or clothing. Some people change guilds or join their first guild and would like their wearable items to be in color with the guild they are in.
7.A different book of knowledge that teaches a new skill. Im sure you can think of a few new usefull skills.
8.Stat enhancement jewelry. + 20 constitution, or focus for example.

I could go on and on. Doing missions over and over and over, gets boring extremely fast in my opinion. The loot is extremely weak. Sure, you build up a ton of money, but after you buy the uber weapons, armor and house that you want, theres not a lot left. If you add a bunch of cool, rare and useful items, and make them hard and random to get, you will keep peoples interest up a lot longer. Please feel free to add more item ideas people.

Why does the reward have to be a "part" of crafters? Seriously, are they are not fighting.

How a mission Terminal? That would be very cool to be able to "place" a temporary mission terminal somewhere - with a limited time usage (a week). (These could give some unique missions) (All types of players can use it. Of if a PA gets it -- place outside ones PA)

What about a silly power-up? Thathas limited uses and works on all weapons?

----

Anything related to Skill points will cause a rift between power gamers and all others.

I totally agree 3P0 with us not wanting to hurt the crafters, but make the loot something un-attainable by crafters, such as some kind of rare armor, or weapon. something that makes running 4000 meters worthwhile.

What about large caches of resources? Something like 20k units of nice steel or something.

How about T-Shirts with a logo on it. Or that say I did this quest and all got was this T-Shirt

uh... Force Slot would be gud

Actually Raph, you sound like yu never played Ultima Online...

Can you say "Rares"? I knew you could!

Detailed Idea: Have a rather large set of "Rare" and/or "Collectable" decoration items for people's homes. Special Couches, C3PO bed sheets, Gun Racks, Darth Vader Helmets with a ciggarette hanging out, Luke Skywalkers Hand, Maps of the Galaxy, Ewok Ear Necklaces, etc...

When someone completes the "Big Quest" randomly give them one of these. The Balance(tm) would not be effected much accept that people would get into huge financial trading for these things.

~f

Ok, before I answer your question, I have a couple of editorial comments to make that I think are relevant. First, it is disheartening to see a thread like this asking us to make a fundamental, basic design decision that should have been made 3 years ago, especially when you frame it to us as if it's the first time you ever gave it a second's thought, and with the implication that whatever is most popular on this thread is what will go in. I would hope there would be at least some faintly formed clue as to what you wanted, based on this non-EQ model of superfun that you have yet to elucidate aside from telling us that it's nothing like EQ or DAoC.Aside from the desire to not wreck crafting, I have no idea what you, the devs, think loot should be about in this game. I would think that knowing what your positive vision is would be important to making a constructive suggestion.

Second, I get a disturbing, pseudo-socialist, hyper-egalitarian vibe from all this antipathy toward loot in general. It seems to me that you're so worried that someone might end up being better than others that you've made loot irrelevant, and in doing so removed a lot of the fun of the game. Good loot provides a meaningful objective, something to work for, to form teams for, and something to reward you for persistence and organization. Loot that does not improve your character meaningfully is not worth working for.

Most of the criticisms I see of loot amount to the kind of mentality parodied in this joke, once supposedly told to Ronald Reagan by Gorbachev:

There are two Russian cattle ranchers whose ranches are side by side. The first rancher has 40 head of cattle, and the second rancher has only 10. One day the second farmer stumbles upon a magic lamp, and after rubbing it, a Genie appears and grants him a single wish.

The second farmer tells the Genie "Well, the farmer across the street has40 head of cattle, and I only have 10."

The Genie replies, "Ok, so you want me to give you 50 more head of cattle?"

"No," said the second farmer, "I want you to kill 35 of his."

The moral of the story is that this mindset doesnt care how miserable he is as long as there isn't anyone out there doing better. This is the attitude of people who don't have it in them to do well, and resent those who do. I hope this is not the reason you are treating loot as if it were a design flaw in other games. Not only is this a terrible reason, but it is unconvincing. I don't think you have yet positively spelled out why your system is better, or even what exactly your answer is. All I see is that every Master Bounty Hunter has the exact same capabilities as any other Master Bounty Hunter, will be wearing the same armor, using the same weapons, etc.

Having said that, I would say that:

- unique, limited-use schematics that produce better-than-normal-crafting items are a good idea

- loot outside the context of crafting, like say night vision goggles, extra inventory space, larger-radius radar scopes, limited-use stealth devices maybe.

- NOT clothing (tailors are crafters too) what would be so hard about just dropping the endor hat schematic?

- Skill Enhancers! If you made these a) actually drop and b) work you would be going a long way to positively addressing loot.

Last, keep in mind that as long as you can't loot at all while grouped with pets, (a bug that has been in the game for weeks), none of any of this matters.

I believe the overall answer to the loot question is for items to have a limited longevity. This gives players the opportunity to profit for completing a quest without upsetting crafters or game balance.

Items that decrease the time it takes to increase a skill would certainly make the time taken to complete a quest worthwhile and items that give in increase in abilities would perhaps give an increased element of the unknown when facing other players in PvP. Afterall, a hero is not always someone who is the best in their field, but is frequently the person who is luckiest eg. Han, Luke, Chewie and Leia making contact with C-3PO just in time to avoid being crushed to death in the garbage disposal system. What a surprise a high grade bounty hunter or pistoleer would get when a mid grade artisan or smuggler gets the drop on them in combat!

The benefit to the players is obvious, the benefit to the Devs is that these items can begin with very low usage limits. These limits can be increased (if necessary) until a game balance is achieved. In my example above, the artisan or smuggler may have a quick draw holster that it limited to two or three uses.

Other rewards could come in the form of prestige items that add nothing to a players stats, but look good, either on the player, or in their abode. Yes, I'm pushing for a Han Solo'esq hip holster here. Gimme, gimme, gimme. Afterall, buy the prestige version of SWG gave gamers a set of shades, and I suspect that most of those gamers have had positive comments about that piece of aparell!

If, when player mounts and vehicles, and player space craft arrive, I am hoping that not all craft will be created equal and that a level of tinkering will be possible. If this is the case then rewards that provide a benefit to speed, manuverability, etc will also be possible.

What reward would motivate you to do a long, hard quest or dungeon?

* a clue on how to open the force slot
* a discount on next months subscription (heheh)
* some thing to give status - an armor that is really crappy but looks awesome to walk around in although no one in his right mind will wear it in combat
* a clue on how to open the force slot (I mentioned this already? oh, well, I wanna open it )
* more skill points (as in : do this quest for +5 skill points)
* apprentice XP (it can be a hell to get this)

I am very into the crafting of SWG, I love and dont want to see it tainted at all.

Having said that, I think you could implement to drops of loot and quest rewards for unique items that will not diminish the crafting professions.

For example Unique house items, that would supplement the current furniture available. Soem ideas that I have on this are fire pits / fireplaces, ovens, artwork ( particularly when you implement the move up down commands).

Would love to see some larger scale quests for some guild unique items like a quest to replace the banners on guild halls with unique ones.

Lots of other ideas on this front, but I think you get the idea. Shouldn't be too difficult to offer cool stuff that doesn't detract from the crafters.

Johon