Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Understanding the Crafting Experimentation Changes
NovaSpice wrote:
Skedoozy wrote:
Wow... you guys must be republicans if this is how you think you will fix the economy.
A. Rich Crafters will makes TONS of current weapons and sell them for ENORMOUS PRICES.. The rich get richer..
B. New Crafters will not have a snowballs chance in Arizona to make it. It was hard before, this makes it nearly impossible for them.
C. Crafters who can afford(Read: Rich beyond any players dreams) will be buying up skill tapes with + to experimeantion that are already OVERPRICED and will now be even MORE OVERPRICED. And the Crafters that can afford (READ: Rich getting richer)to buy these will be the only ones crafting things that people will buy.
Your reasoning for wanting to change the system is valid.. your changes howerver are going to have the reverse effect that you are looking for.
Ah, a flaming liberal maggot. How cute. Class warfare is such a communist idea--can't you liberals accept that no one buys your "rich get richer and trample over the poor" bull**edit**? If the rich receive tax cuts just like the middle and lower class, then they will invest, thereby boosting the economy and causing the ever famous "trickle down theory." In essence, if the rich get richer, so do the rest of us.
Liberals piss me off.
Tsk tsk NovaSpice.. calling someone else a "maggot" for having a different political opinion than yourself.. how classy.
While I'mtempted to write some lengthy flame about yourunderstanding of real life economics, i'll leave it be since its off topic. Instead, I would however love to hear how your trickle down effect will prevent exactly what Skedoozy predicts from happening? How will the wealth for those with access to "pre-nerf" equipment, skill tapes and better resources "trickle down" to the new crafters that enter an un-even competitive situation?
PRE-NERF Stocking up
Just a note to people....up till now the Pre-nerf item was just about always a safe bet to stock up on.
With the Pub7 changes to DE, the Probot has been Retroactively nerfed (even deeds), so that means that anything and everything is now open to be retroactively nerfed.
Not a whine or a moan, just so everyone knows, they can and will retroactively nerf what they want to..it is no longer a sacred thing that things made before a crafting nerf will be safe.
Just, as I say, for your added information.
if the sole intent of this change is to encourage diversity in crafted items, this change will not accomplish anything.
the problem is not resources not having enough of an impact, the problem is experimenting in certain ways is no where near as effective as experimenting in the same ways as everybody else.
for example (I'm a chef, so I'll use food as an example):
putting 1 point into something like brandy will reduce the filling below 50 in general...either 49 or 48, and sometimes if your resources are good enough, you don't even need the 1 point to do that...
problem isn't that resource doesn't have enough of an effect, problem is that as long as you can take 2 brandy...it doesn't matter that you have a filling of 47 as opposed to 48 or 49...it just isn't enough of a beneif to justify spending the points.
I'm sure that this is true for other things like armor...I've read some of the armorsmith posts, and experimenting in ham costs for some pieces like helmets might be reasonable...but for other pieces like biceps, gloves, etc...spending one of 10 (or even 12) points to reduce ham costs by 1-3 points...completely not worth it.
put simply this experimentation change along will do nothing to change how things are now...people will still only make armor in a certain way, weapons will all still be basically cookie cutter copies, etc.
the true answer would be to make experimenting worth it in every line...nothing short of this will make a more diversified product market.
take food for example...if 1 point of experimenting could reduce filling by...oh say 5 instead of 1 or 2...there would be a fair number of chefs that would indeed seriously consider making low filling (sacrificing charges and power) brandy.
or for armorsmiths, and WS...if ham costs, accuracy, etc could be increased by more meaningful amounts...there might indeed be a more diverse selection of weapons and armor...(polearms and powerhammers with +accuracy instead of -'s...or low mind ham cost rifles...)
the new system isn't completely without merit, having the max value increase with an amazing success provides more incentive and reward to crafters who have spent the time and effort to seek out anything and everything to help them make the best product possible.
but it also has its downfalls...there are some items that will get a lot more powerful because they only have 1 line to experiment...or because everyone only experiments 1 line to its max, and rarely has more than 1 point leftover spent in some arbitrary line (or omitted to save factory time).
As much as I disagree with this proposed change, I can offer a suggestion to the devs that would make this more acceptable to me.
First of all remove the ability to use harvestors from the normal person. Then add a miner profession, with certs on the different harvestors. Add in skills to combine certain chemicals with certain metals to be able to produce ANY type of resource in the game at any time. Then addrefineries to be able totarget a stat to improve by melting down and reducing quantity to improve quality.
A scenario could go like this: An armorsmith needs high quality colat iron. He contacts a miner and places an order for 10k of it. Minergoes out and finds the highest concentration of iron available. Drops a medium harvestoron it (the highest he is certified for). But this iron he found is not Colat Iron. So he pulls out his schematic for Colat Iron and checks to see what type of chemical is needed. So he drops a harvestor for some chemical as well. A few days later he has a stack of 100k of iron and 85k of chemical. He crafts a schematic, and drops it into his factory. 10 hours later he has a stack of 100k Colat Iron.
But the armorsmith has given him the condition that the Colat Iron must have at least 950 in Shock, 950 in Overall, and 750 in malleability. (This armorsmith is trying to make a suit of composite for a wedding present for his new bride) So the miner takes a look at the stats and sees that the item has 500 Shock, 700 Overall, and 300 malleability. So he goes and puts it in his refinery, and set the desired attributes by sliding attribute bars,and there is a display that shows how long the process will take, and how much will be output from the process. In this case it takes3 days, and it is burned down to 10k. When he has his stack of Colat Iron, the miner calculates the cost of making the iron was roughly around 300k, so he sells the stack of Colat Iron to the armorsmith for 600k.
This will have several results:
1. It will add a new, fun profession to play.
2. This will limit the massive amounts of resources flooding the markets.
3.It will make any resource available to crafters who really care about their craft. So if you happen to master armorsmith at a time when PolysteelCopper is not availablein the resource shift, you can still obtain some.
4. This will allow theentry level crafter to be able to obtain high quality resources withouthaving to have mined every quality spawn since release.This will even the playing fielda great deal for entry into a crafting profession.
5. This will add numerous money sinks into the game.The cost of running several harvestors to combine together to make a single resource obviously costs more than a single harvestor. And the higher the resource quality of the refinery, obviosly the longer it take (more money sink) and the less results. What you get is 10kof resources thatmoney sank 300k out of the game. Instead of the15k credits money sink to get the same amount when you happen to get the right spawn.
6.There is nolimit to how good a product can bemade. The previous poster who claimed he had millions of the best resources could smelt away his huge stockpile of goods to producestats of 1000 on every attribute, to make the "perfect" armor. Instead of cranking out 1000's of great armor, he could produce 20 sets of the "perfect armor (tm)"
Kiashia wrote:
JCatano wrote:
Just for kicks and a little, well....we'll get to that after your next post:
Where did this "less than 100k" come from?
MMORPGs are all about change. This is not something new. Thoughts of Armageddon isn't new, either.
Anyway, you gave me nothing to refute, because the change hasn't even gone live, yet. Everyone is screaming at something that isn't there at this time.
Feel free to try and come to a conclusionabout somethingwhich hasn't been implemented.
Most games improve as they go, adding new content and quests that will help make players a little stronger and gain and edge, unique items, good quest rewards. Its all about living in a world where there is always room toimprove. Thats what this game fails at.
In a skill-based game you will cap quickly. They stated long ago that it was their goal to allow players to hit the cap in a reasonable amount of time. SWG isn't like DAoC, EQ, etc. where the only drive is to advance, advance, advance and get, get, get. I like the idea of this type of drive being nixed out of my gameplay, personally.
On your "nerf" note....
They have explained why things are toned down instead of powered up. It is more efficient for them to balance downward, because the entire PvE code doesn't have to be revamped and constantly upgraded in power each time you raise the wrath of a profession.
LOL more efficiant? They spent 8 months ballancing down... whens it going to stop? When no one is left tocomplain about it?
JCatano wrote:
In a skill-based game you will cap quickly. They stated long ago that it was their goal to allow players to hit the cap in a reasonable amount of time. SWG isn't like DAoC, EQ, etc. where the only drive is to advance, advance, advance and get, get, get. I like the idea of this type of drive being nixed out of my gameplay, personally.
On your "nerf" note....
They have explained why things are toned down instead of powered up. It is more efficient for them to balance downward, because the entire PvE code doesn't have to be revamped and constantly upgraded in power each time you raise the wrath of a profession.
And more accounts become canceled. This change should cause a 20% decrease in accounts. Another patch like this and we will have another Planetside... Awesome start. Bad development decisions. Decisions against the wishes of the community. Barren playerbase 
Great how these things happen.
I guess I will be saving my $60 a month soon.
WOW thats a good idea...
Kiashia wrote:
LOL more efficiant? They spent 8 months ballancing down... whens it going to stop? When no one is left tocomplain about it?
JCatano wrote:
In a skill-based game you will cap quickly. They stated long ago that it was their goal to allow players to hit the cap in a reasonable amount of time. SWG isn't like DAoC, EQ, etc. where the only drive is to advance, advance, advance and get, get, get. I like the idea of this type of drive being nixed out of my gameplay, personally.
On your "nerf" note....
They have explained why things are toned down instead of powered up. It is more efficient for them to balance downward, because the entire PvE code doesn't have to be revamped and constantly upgraded in power each time you raise the wrath of a profession.
Have any facts about why it isn't more efficient in regards to coding? It's seem very logical to me, especially when the devs have already explained why.
Kazrath wrote:
And more accounts become canceled. This change should cause a 20% decrease in accounts.WOW thats a good idea...
73% of statistics are made up on the spot.