Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-4: Combat Roles; Combat Medic
vortexala wrote:
Xytroncore wrote:
So let me get this straight, we heal for less damage then docs, we get stuck to the ground doing it, but we do get bugged range, most I can toss is 45m, yet it should be 60 or so...lol oh that's perfectly fair...we get 2 negative aspects to our healing just so we can get crappy range, weeeee, we're amazing /sarcasm.
You do realize that, considering posts on the CM Board proper, the range limitations on Stims as of late is a bug and something that was supposed to have been applied to poisons/diseases instead?
As for the 'heal for less damage then docs' statement, I think we already covered that.
I know it's a bug, but it's still effecting how bad we are right now at healing isn't it? Oh wait, you wouldn't know really since you're a BH now...
Ya, we did cover that, you're using perfectly ideal situations to try and justify area heals as being even remotely useful most of the time. They are not useful, no one wants to stand close enough together to get healed by an area heal, why would they when they'll probably be poisoned, expecially since we can't cure the poison... And, considering how weak the area heals are in general, you may heal a person for 1500 health and action only to have that taken right away again in 3 seconds be anyone, anyone can do 1500 damage in a matter of seconds...we can not heal enough to keep up with the insane damage output of most of the combat classes.
Xytroncore wrote:
I know it's a bug, but it's still effecting how bad we are right now at healing isn't it? Oh wait, you wouldn't know really since you're a BH now...
That supposed to be a low-blow there? Ever occur to you that perhaps I've witnessed the issues firsthand from the outside due to grouping with a CM? One does not have to BE that profession in order to know the issues that plague it.
Ya, we did cover that, you're using perfectly ideal situations to try and justify area heals as being even remotely useful most of the time. They are not useful, no one wants to stand close enough together to get healed by an area heal, why would they when they'll probably be poisoned, expecially since we can't cure the poison... And, considering how weak the area heals are in general, you may heal a person for 1500 health and action only to have that taken right away again in 3 seconds be anyone, anyone can do 1500 damage in a matter of seconds...we can not heal enough to keep up with the insane damage output of most of the combat classes.
Then perhaps you should lobby for more power for CM Stims. Get the backing of other CMs and force the issue into the top 5 where the Devs will see it? Or would you rather simply complain in other locations about it? If the issue of CM stims being so inferior to Doctor crafted ones was such a widespread and know problem, don't you think it would have made it into the Top 5 CM issues by now? Or is it merelya pet peeve issue of yours?
At any rate, should they be increased in base power? Perhaps, perhaps not. If all things were equal and bug-free, then I would have no qualms with the raising of CM Stim Base Heal to near(not exceeding) Doctor Stim Base Heals.
Source of the balance problems:
As it has been said before many many times, people want nerfs because mind damage is unhealable. Fix that issue and then we can start to find balance for ALL the professions, be it PvE or PvP.
Yes as it stands now AoE mind poisons are a big problem, single ones arent, a single target isn't hard for a doc to cure, a group of 20 is. So lets see, do we yell and scream like children to nerf poisons all together and make us useless (that is after all what ALOT of you are saying, with some of the nerfs you guys have suggested EVERY CM I know will drop it like a bad habit, you'll make us as useless as a commando... hell maybe more useless). The better solution here is to give Docs or CM's an area cure, hell maybe give both of them an area cure. The Doc cure having to be applied like a stim to a person with 7m and the AoE effect taking place from there (heck, maybe up the range for docs for that ability to 15m) and the CM one being sightly less powerfull but being ranged like all of a CM's other abilities. Along with that and fixing LoS on poisons so you cant poison a group of people in a base by hitting someone outside the base that alone with fix 99% of peoples problems with CM's without nerfing us to death, hell it would be a boost for docs.
Rather simple to fix things without nerfing them isn't it? **edit** all you guys are starting to sound like the DEV's.
The points CM's use for ranged heals and AOE (Marksman points) DOESNT JUSTIFY a CM's point usage if all we can do is ranged heal. If CM's couldnt poison and disease I would switch to a doctor cause we would be useless. Id run that extra 35m to heal someone rather then "waste" an additional 28 points so I can hit them from 35m. A CM by title IMO means we are battle healers, we should primarily be healing people in the field as a battle occurs.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
CM's IMO should have more defensive abilities then offensive, like we are in the field trying to heal the wounded and are dodging enemy attacks to do it
What offensive abilities?
I dont believe a CM should be a major offensive profession, its hard to change now though that you made it one.
What defensive abilities?
A CM should be more defensive in nature then offensive
What unique abilities?
You gave us mind heal but it sucks due to the damage we take. You gave docs buffs and rezzing, CM's use more points and are underdogs to doctors in healing. If we dont get more offensive abilities or they are taken away, we should be better healers then doctors on the field. I think poison and disease should not do damage the way they do but instead should cripple enemies like slowing down enemy attacks speeds and enemy running speeds, or causing other effects to the enemy like forced puking(kneeling) and blind / dizzy stats to reduce their effectiveness, reduce enemy HAM bars for a time, etc
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Ranged mind healing without wounds. This would make us more desirable
How could/should they interact with other professions?
A CM should be a "Battle healer" primarily, but for the points we spend just healing doenst make a CM worth it. We should be a good healer in the field and a "chemical warfare" expert as well.
I have waited very long for such a thread. A thread that really cares for balance and ourpose rather than a simple cry for nerf, or a mass rant.
I will try to stay as constructive as possible.
All i will list are personall opinions, based on my extensive knowledge of the game mechanics as well as importand needs and roles in PvP. I will not post about PvE aspect, as balancing PvE is rather different, than balancing PvE. With the lack of NPC AI and it's replacement by CS (Coded Stupidity), PvE is not a matter of skill, but a matter of exploiting NPC reactions. It is sad that it is this way, but this also makes balancing PvE a pain in the a**.
Okay, so here we go, Dogg's view on the combat medic Profession in PvP:
Thunderheart wrote:
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theCombat Medicrole in combat?
Given his name description, his role is a healer, able to assist his comrades in battle as well as providing quick medical aid, in any situation. In SWG, the CM is also a mix of Wizard/Cleric. Long range AE attacks are his resort as well as healing abilities. Given the nescessary requirements to access the profession, the emphasis should be on healing and Squad support. In his role the CM is rather comparable toa Squad leader. It is not a soloist, but a group assist. Without a group, a CM is without use, by it's very definition.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
They are support troops. Thus their offensive abilities should be limited to support abilities. The current system of DoT effects like poisons and Diseases is a good way to fill this role. But the emphasis should nevertheless be in keeping their teammates alive. The CM should be the Profession that removes status effects, rather than the Doctor. Whereas the Doctor is an academic, the CM is a front line medical specialist. It would only mke sense to grante the CM the ability to remove status effects, rather than the Doctor. Given their familiarity to poisons and diseases, they should be given the ability to remove them as well, along with the Doctor. Both professions have the nescessary requirements to attain the knowledge to cure poisons and diseases, one through academic training, the other through direct application experience as well as manufacturing exprience.
What offensive abilities?
The offensive abilities of a CM should be limited to pure support skills. A CM is not a fighter. No real combat skills are part of it's class requirments.
Thus their abilities should fit with their role as a support unit. Poisons and diseases are a good way to achieve that. But their rage should be equal to any other ranged profession (64m). The current potency of CM poisons and diseases only are a balance problem, due to a range that allows CMs to apply their weaponry from a safe distance without fear for retaliation. As soon as their range is limited to 64m the potency of their weaponry is no longer an issue, since there is a chance to counter them.
What defensive abilities?
Their defenses should be limited to warrant a coiunter against them. Their ability to lay devastating effects on a large group of people is offensive enough for a healer. The current defenses of a CM are more than sufficient. With a group to back them up, they are safe. On their own, a CM should not be a competent combatant.
What unique abilities?
AoE cures against Poisons and diseases should go to the CM as their personal knowledge about these weapons of chemical warfare surpasses that of any other profession. On the second part, their large area applications of DoT effects makes them good in channeling and herding an oopponent. They have a perfect role in psychological warfare as well as enemy dispersion. They are a usefull tactical tool that can , by simply tossing around poisons sway the course of a battle, without even delivering damage.
A Combat medic does not need to deal damage to be efficient in PvP. Their role is different, but none the less as powerfull as that of a fighter.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
By the nature of their weaponry, the are a direct counter to HATs and HDTs (High Accuracy Templates and High Defense Templates). They fore such templates into submission, forming an effective way to counter such templates, This makes them vital for the verall balance of PvP.
Their ability to heal multiple opponents at once as well as over range increases their efficiency as healers in combat as well as increasing their reaction time to attend critically wounded comrades.
Their ability to heal Mind needs an improvement though. by creating wounds their use is limited and does not sufficiently enough counter attack son the Mind pool. The mind pool still is the most important aspect of PvP as it cannot be healed efficiently. They need an option to cure Mind damage without suffering wounds.
It is hard to balance that basic need against possible ways of exploitation. One way could be to not allow them to cure their own Mind damage.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
To increase their usefullness, they should become suppliers for Poison cure packs to FDoctors. They need a schematic which is a prerequisite for poison/disease cure packs. This would give them an option to earn money along their duty, as their very specific role in combat would make them poor PvEers. They lack the ability to earn money through missions, thus their basis of income should be set in the crafting aspect of the game, the player economy.
Due to their lack of commodities they are unable to effficiently mass produce material for the market to support their monetary needs.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
CMs are in the offensive role comparable to modern day artillery and face the same problems: They are vulnerable to direct attacks. Thus they need other fighters and a squad Leader to function properly in combat. They need others to shield them from danger.
After all, this restriction is what justifies their uncounterable AoE DoTs.
Their dependancy on other profession to endure in combat is therefore a nescessity for combat balance.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Herding, Channeling, Squad Support. The role of the combat medic is psxchological as well as assisting.
The prescence of a Combat medic should increase overall group efficientcy while making them a tool to directly maipulate enemy movement and strategy.
Thus a CM would become a tactical tool, more than an actual fighter. a role no less impiortant but ultimately different.
I hope i encompassed every nescessary aspect and did not forget any important part.
Feel free to comment on my post, so that i may see flaws or mistakes i it, to post a correction if nescessary.
Thanx,
Dogg
P.S.: please referain from commants that by their very nature show a deep lack of knowledge of the actual gamingmechanics.
Why do you call for our poisons to be less powered?
I think the Combat Medic Profession is just right, right now. I thought this before I was a Combat Medic, or training to be a Combat Medic. If you take the long, hard journey to gather hundreds of extremely hard to find resources, apply the poison, and it works, that is a job well done. If you nerf my poison that I've taken two months to make and have it so it does low damage, I don't see a point to that.
If you nerf our poison, then what makes us a unique profession? Our poison won't be a huge factor in PvP anymore. We will just be the old combat medic's.
You said that every profession was supposed to have their unique ability that made it special. Our is our mind poison. A lot of other professions (*cough*RIFLEMAN*cough*) have a mind attack that does the same amount of damage, faster! So why are we talking about nerfing us? (I don't want Rifleman nerfed, nobody flame me.)
And if you don't want to lose in PvP from the poison, it's easy! Bring a doctor with you! Bring a Combat Medic that can Mind Heal with you! There are all kinds of ways to prevent it. But someone is gonna go out into PvP, get poisoned, die because of it, and then go cry nerf on the boards when they didn't even think about taking Fishak, or Muon Gold, or bring a Doctor or Combat Medic!
Cheers!
Rob
What defines theCombat Medicrole in combat?
Our poisons and diseases are a large part, but we are also able to heal extremely effectively.
What offensive abilities?
We should be able to keep our poisons like they are. If they were changed, it would completely lessen the role of the Combat Medic in PvP, and in group hunting.
What defensive abilities?
I think that we should get some upgraded defense against poisons ourselves. I mean, we made the poisons, we know all the components of them, why should they be affecting us every time?
What unique abilities?
Our unique ability is that we can apply poisons, causing the enemy to counter with other Combat Medics and Doctors.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
I personally don't think anything should be added to the profession, I think the profession is great right now.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
We should deliver posionwhen needed, and drop large heals on our allies.
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theCombat Medicrole in combat?
-Medical support. Stay close to the base camp and heal.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
-They should be MARGINAL in actual combat.
What offensive abilities?
-Poison, bio-weapon are ok. But much too strong ATM.
What defensive abilities?
-Special skill to defend a camp would be nice. But once they get out of the camp, they should be easy targets (negative skill adjustment?).
What unique abilities?
-Crafting special medical pack. Field used stuff. Poison, bio-weapon.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
-Camp with a medic should get a defense bonus.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
-In the best case, they should craft poison and other chem. weapon but should not be the ones using them.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
-Need protection. Need crafting components.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
-From the current situation... More of a support role, less an offensive weapon.