Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-17 Star Wars Galaxies Combat Profession Mix and Match
JerikArca
Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:10 pm
#365
Thunderheart has the dev team ever considered allowing for hero professions or elite eliteso as a Carbineer could dedicate all of his skillpoints into one skill and become THE BEST of his type? I beleive that profession mixing is NOT a good thing and players should have defined roles. The Master box needs to be madeessential and dabbling is bad, it allows for players to have abilities and defenses their prof was notintended to have.
DocJedi
Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:58 am
#366
To make them feel unique each profession should have special armor or clothes that only that profession could wear. The armor or clothes would enhance skill mods making it ideal for that profession.
The-Dark-Father
Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:38 pm
#367
As an aspiring bounty hunter i have to say;
FIX bounty hunter!
the path to master is a bug ridden perilous one.
the weapons required for stun (pvp) are very rare and expensive
for such a weak combat profession the skill point usage is horrendous.
the damage mitigation / dodge bonuses are prety useless compared to other professions.
the system for getting missions and then finding spynet operatives is bloody useless. ( i spent 2 hrs looking for a spynet operative for a mission in theed, and still couldn't find one that would help, went to somewhere on corellia, found one, got a target on dathomire, spent loads on transport,buffs and tracking droids and guess what?? yep you guessed it, the target character didn't spawn :-(.
so to fix bounty hunter;
bounty hunter guild building in each planatery capitol city which contains :
Mission terminals for different types of missions (level 1 at ground, 2-3 at 1st floor etc, [ capture missions, kill , etc})
Terminals that do the same as the spynet informants but allow us touse the investigation tree ourselves by trawling police and imperial files to find stuff like "likely haunts, known associates etc"
The option to capture rather than kill targets ( this would require hadcuffs etc and could be used whilst the target is knocked down from a special attack, this would increase the reward of the bounty)
Being able to take more than one mission at a time.
For low level bountys the bounty guild hall could have a notice board listing of know on planet marks and thier last know position and known haunts etc (or at say every half hour bounty-hunters could get a mail listing know bountys on planet), this combined with the investigation skill ( going to the known haunt, interviewing somone, sticking your scatter pistol up thier nose etc) would be a good way of building the narative of the profession whilst providing low level missions for beginners.
BOUNTY HUNTER WEAPONS:
1) the noghri kochli spray stick would be excellent for slowing targets and confusing them aand possably evend capturing them alive(its in the books of the correct star wars period).
2) for fighting jedi the furry creatures (ylasamari) that emit a force nullifieng field would be good, this could work as a master artisan and a master bio engineer would be needed to make the nutrient frame/cage required to hold/feed them and this could be a type of quest in it's self.
3) some more specialised bounty hunter only weapons should be made, such as pistols and carbines that do different types of damage (the scatter pistol only does acid damage) or have a greater accuracy rating
Basically somone should be made to read the bounty hunter trilogy and to impliment some ideas from it.
thanks
broa jace
chimeara
Fingerofthrawn
Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:19 pm
#368
Well, I've been playing for almost 10 months now (not the Beta vet that everyone else seems to be), and I've finally figured out what can be done to correct some major problems i seeinthe game. Not a hard-core PvPer and the PvE is wrecked almost beyond repair, and that seems to be the last topic on everyone's minds. In fact, I'm not even sure whether this is the right thread to post this on either, or whether any devs are even going to read this....but here goes:
Fix PvP: I think more than a few of the above threads has referenced great ways to do this, and it's not a subject I'm very familiar with, but the more enjoyable you make PvP for those that truly enjoy it, the less they'll really bother the rest that don't (j/k) 
One addition that I think should be made (2 parts) is there 1)should be bonuses to PCs' for holding dueling tournaments based on attendance. Give a 5% bonus to all vending purchases within city limits on that day for attendance of 50-100 people, 10% for 100-200 people, etc. where everyone charges normal prices but their customers recieve a 5% discount and the merchants maybe earn an extra 5% on their sales- to either xp or creds. And 2)Eliminate the 3 incap death rule regarding duels- cause sometimes you get caught up and forget and thats why duels aren't as fun as they could be: warcry/kd/dizzy/accidental DB anyone? This at least lets people use their specials and DOT's a little bit more, and take DB out of duels entirely, or make it have to be agreed upon by both parties! That ends half the complaint tics to the csr's don't ya think? True GCW PvP, DB's do have their place, but not in duels, just take em out so we wont ever have those 2 fools at the starport argueing in spacial about who DBed who first last time they dueled and what they're gonna do about it ever again.
One addition that I think should be made (2 parts) is there 1)should be bonuses to PCs' for holding dueling tournaments based on attendance. Give a 5% bonus to all vending purchases within city limits on that day for attendance of 50-100 people, 10% for 100-200 people, etc. where everyone charges normal prices but their customers recieve a 5% discount and the merchants maybe earn an extra 5% on their sales- to either xp or creds. And 2)Eliminate the 3 incap death rule regarding duels- cause sometimes you get caught up and forget and thats why duels aren't as fun as they could be: warcry/kd/dizzy/accidental DB anyone? This at least lets people use their specials and DOT's a little bit more, and take DB out of duels entirely, or make it have to be agreed upon by both parties! That ends half the complaint tics to the csr's don't ya think? True GCW PvP, DB's do have their place, but not in duels, just take em out so we wont ever have those 2 fools at the starport argueing in spacial about who DBed who first last time they dueled and what they're gonna do about it ever again.Fix the farming- instance the dungeons:
This needs to be done immediately, if not sooner, as the farming and camping in this game is so out-of-control it's not even funny. And the worst thing is, you have all the tools in-game to fix it already and you've shown it can be done (ie: the corvette). The first thing you need to do is limit the times in a 24-hour cycle the dungeon/cave can be ran through- I think 3 times a dungeon with maybe an extra one or two times with a group (give 1 bonus run for a group of 5 or more; 2 bonus if you can get 10 or more..) That was the corvettes downfall and what led to the nerfing of it (canANY group of 10 run through that place now)? Most of the better loot-dropping and entertaining dungeons already have 'heralds' which, at this point, are pretty useless with the POI waypoints now available to everyone. So make them mission givers, doesn't have to be hard or long, just make them get a random item from a random place-just like the corvette. From there they go to the dungeon POI and give this item to someone that forwards the storyline along and they are spirited into the dungeon complete with dungeon-specific loading screen. If you die anywhere in the dungeon it counts towards the max number of total runs you can make. Maybe make it so that some of the bosses will only be there one or 2 times a day for any one person regardless. But at least you'd take a step towards making this game fun for the PvEers again. Right now, if a dungeon is worth going through at all, it's camped and likely, farmed. How else do you think people can hawk geo and aakuan items all day, everyday in the middle of Coro and say that they restock daily? And besides, I used to like to group up and go try to storm a dungeon with a lot of people, but it's no fun getting 20 people together to go take out Fort Tusken or the Nightsister Stronghold or Geo Labs (are you getting the picture yet?) and finding a LINE of campers there. Yeah thats sure great for that old role-playing experience
Because, to be honest, there's just not enough meat to the missions for most of us, I don't think- run out, kill a lair, get money, run back to town and get more missions-whoopiee.
Because, to be honest, there's just not enough meat to the missions for most of us, I don't think- run out, kill a lair, get money, run back to town and get more missions-whoopiee.Thats where the dungeons come in- especially with the heralds pointing the way. Most of the rest relates to this in one way or another, but this was my big idea for a good adjustment, and I hope you think so too *fingers crossed*
Oh yeah, and maybe a set time limit based on the cave or dungeon involved, i mean 45 minutes for the A'akuan caves might be too much and wouldn't be near enough time for Fort Tusken.
I mean it's pretty bad when I start a new server and run around Coronet lookin for loons and kooks to kill for xtra money- and even all those spawns are camped AFK.Do you people have NO shame?LOL
DONT DE-POWER US PLEASE!!!!
That's what this whole combat rebalance is about I hear- to make us want to play more with our fellow man. Instead of de-powering us, why not give group-based incentives? For instance, why go in a group of 10 to take out Mokks and everyone gets 3k when 1 or 2 people can go and rake in 15-30k and take less time to do it? AND get all the loot for themselves.
Well, to improve on this, I'd like to see mission quality determined by the number of people in range of the mission term (no more solo groups) and payout would be based on group size with added bonuses for level. That way group of 3 friends that want to hunt together can pull 30th lvl missions with 30k payouts (10k apiece, reasonable if not stellar), while a group of 19-20 people could pull the same mokk missions but at the 240th level and literally have 15-20 Mokks spawn when they get there and each person gets paid 30k-40k.Also have some sort of group loot drop dynamicso the more people that are in a group, the more stuff drops and add multiple loot drops per NPC just make it so everyone can only loot it once. That way the ninja-looters aren't the only ones' getting the loot. Maybe make the drops less frequent for soloists and duos grouped and make it perhaps 2 possible loots from 3-5 people (NPC's are not included iin these counts), 3 drops from 6-9 people, 5 for 10-14 people, 6 for 15-18 people, and maybe 8 or 10 for a group of 19-20 player-chars. Because whether you like it or not, loot and creds make the galaxy spin-or something like that and maybe with these last two ideas you could keep from nerfin the loot drops entirely (cause the the loot is what keeps us comin back for more). And the problem with forcing 98% of us into groups by depowering our avatars that most of us have worked SO long and hard on, is that those same exploiters, power-gaming ninja-looters, and afk farmers and campers and such will still be able to find a way to solo the elders and krayts and djms' you don't want soloed and the rest of us will be screwed right out of the game. Cause who wants to take someonein PvP that has two accounts rollin and can arm his main TKM,Fencer, Swordsman with uber weapons and armor made by his alt master WS/AS char that never has to join a guild because he and his/her buddy "pwn' in PvE. Or pay 4 or 5 Mil that we don't have and can't really make by ourselves anymore for that uber-scythe. Don't take the casual gamer and hard-core PvEers out of the game our 15 bucks a month counts too, right?
COMBAT/ PROFESSIONFIXES-
Yes, we have become quite the nation of dabblers, but you made it so easy....and here are some ideas to correct that without punishing us.
Stack the skill trees: Make having multiple skill trees in the same profession gives bigger benefits! For instance, all you need in TK, for instance, is the meditate tree, that doesn't cost all that much extra in skill points for the benefits granted (wound heal, Power Boost, FoW) make people have to climb the whole med tree for wound heal so they have something to look forward to, keep Power Boost where it is, but make people have to learn both the meditate tree and the balance tree to get FoW, and of course, make it worth more to be a master of something.....a lot of professions now simply are more useful to dabble in than to master. Another idea to keep dabbling to a minimum would be to give bonuses to people for keeping their profession, maybe not permanent, stacking bonuses- that would get really out of hand, really quick but maybe they could use a little xp- on the stuff that would be giving them xp but that's maxxed-out anyway, to boost their abilities in that prof temporarily- for kind-of a profession "buff" of sorts. These buffs could be used in the various skill mods unique to that profession to improvemedical experimentation, sword speed, food experimentation, harvesting, etc.Hopefully, we could reward those that stay in their chosen profession rather than reward the dabblers and the hologrinders. And maybe to keep the abuses at bay, make it more random with the experimentation mods and such.
On a whole, I don't see a need for combat to be entirely rebalanced, the main complaint seems to boil down to person with rifle drawn faces person with vk's/gafi stick equipped why does person b always seem to win? And it really comes down to...if the person with the range stays where they are most comfortable (at range) then that person wins hands down, but if person b gets too close, it's all over and it should be; a person that carries a ranged weapon would have no chance against someone trained in melee at melee range, and vice versa leave it be!! That's where the choices come into play- I would rather you make ranged better close than fool with melee making it worse to even things out.
The best thing you could do to even it out, but i know would never be done, would be a "jackass" alert- if someone is just going above and beyond in town square harassing everybody let people vote on whether or not he should be turned PvP overt for everyone there to whale on for awhile, because there's just TOO MANY people out there into verbal harassment that go unpunished because you can't touch their char and /addignore just means the rest of the people there have to hear them. But i doubt that'll happen .
I hope this came off as constructive criticism, because that's how it was meant.
But these are just my concerns about where the game is headed, because this is the game I've been waiting my whole life to play...ever since i waited in round-the-block lines for the first movie to play at my local theatre or played the first Star Wars stand-up at the pizza parlor after soccer practice *sigh* And I think, all in all, a wonderful job was made to make this an immersive experience for all gaming types and i would like to see it stay that way. Part of the fun in this game is that there's so much flexibility where else can you chose to craft the armor, wear the armor, entertain, cook, hawk items, heal and just about anything else. So what its' got bugs, something this big and good would have to. Its the people that take such advantage of those bugs,and exploits, farming, camping and the likethat they unbalance the game that brings it down on all of us and ruins the game for the rest of us. And I just don't think the caves and some of the most fun spots with of course, the best loot in the game should be ruined for the rest of us just because some people think that a game should become a monopoly, and I think these ways are fairest to the most people. At least fairest to the rest of us...and doesn't get stuffNERFED!!! (are you listening all you jedi geo campers?!?)
I know i rambled a bit but that's my general idea and i hope it helps- cause not all of us are PvPers and we all shouldn't be. After all, isn't that what CHOICE is all about?
Hoping these ideals will be takin into consideration and im sorry it got so long-winded but it was almost worse.
Thank You for listening 
LRRCP
Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:42 pm
#369
As a generalist I am not unstoppable at range like a rifleman but can hold my own. On the other hand I then have skills to be good at melee range if I want to make me more of a threat. I cannot do as well as the TKA at melee range but I dont die as quickly as the Master Rifleman.
Problem with the current system you can cap your defense out though general skills.
I am a Master rifleman, my ranged defense is maxed out. I am a master fencer with some TKA, my melee defense is maxed as well.
I am just like a majority of the template players, I max out my defense and get the best armor I can, then I search for the best Weapon of the types I use.
I feel very strongly that the game should allow progress beyond the Master profession allowing progress beyond the limits, make these skills only cost 1 skill point and as they progress they become stronger in there field beyond the dablers.
LRRCP
Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:08 pm
#370
- What do you think the strengths of professions mix and match are?
It allows use of weapons your primary skill may not, also allows Alt accounts to to be setup for base destruction. - What do you think the weaknesses of professions mix and match are?
you quickly wind up with large numbers of players all with the same setup. like the current TKA/Fencer/rifleman/cm setups. Also the skill sets that are broken are not even used, hence why most of the templates exist. - How do you think we should maintain the unique skillset flavor the game is built on?
Allow progress beyond Master level to true Elite status, add damage multiplyers and make some cross over moves from other skills sets or simular ones at weaker stats but most importantly allow further progress beyond master. - What are some neat combinations that would be good for the game?
in its current state any possible combos have been tried with in the limits of the game. the best ones are being used. - Anything else you want to say on this subject?
tuls
Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:52 am
#371
Anything else you want to say on this subject?
Melee or Ranged... Rifle or Carbine / Vibro knuckler or Stun Baton... Each weapon should have their own skills and mitigations must be free from other melee..
Which means... If you equip a Vibro Knuckler, you should forget the bonuses of Fencer Dodge, because its the weapon who gives you the opportunity to dodge...
Kazzacuk
Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:34 pm
#372
It is the ability to mix and match professions that makes SWG so attractive to so many players. It was a first of it's kind in that it allowed you to be more the the typical tank/mage/healer/wizard mess. I can become a doctor and a rifleman. I can be an architect and a fencer. This allows a plethora of builds and profession combos that have never been seen before. No longer is your role predefined by your initial choice of professions. If you don't like the path you've chosen you have the freedom to change it on the fly. This type of mix and match does not exist elsewhere in teh MMOG's that I've played. Any change to limit character growth they way other MMOG's have limited character growth is a step in the wrong direction.
I do not want to be just a tank or just a healer anymore.
It was a first of it's kind in that it allowed you to be more the the typical tank/mage/healer/wizard mess. I can become a doctor and a rifleman. I can be an architect and a fencer. This allows a plethora of builds and profession combos that have never been seen before. No longer is your role predefined by your initial choice of professions. If you don't like the path you've chosen you have the freedom to change it on the fly. This type of mix and match does not exist elsewhere in teh MMOG's that I've played. Any change to limit character growth they way other MMOG's have limited character growth is a step in the wrong direction. I do not want to be just a tank or just a healer anymore. I want to define my own role in SWG, I do not want my role defined for me by others. Why is there this insatiable appetite to make players dependent upon each other? Why is the ability to solo sometimes such a bad idea? If you want players to group add more end game content that requires player groups to complete i.e. corvette, genosian bunker, deathwatch bunker. Sometimes I don't feel like grouping and sometimes I just don't have the time online to look for a group, form one up then travel to the planet we have chosen to hunt upon.
If balance is a concern with template stackers i.e pistoleer/fencer why not just spread out defences throughout the trees and maybe put more points into the master box to disuade defence dabblers. If you want the maximum benefit from a profession your going to have to master it to get thefull effect.
On the other hand people complain the some combos i.e. tka/fencer combos are overpowered and need to be balanced. How is this possible? Having mastered both professions I find this extremely distasteful. If I duel another fencer with no other professions and I use tka along with my fencer defences this is labled a bad thing. Again I ask how is this possible? Why is it not conceivable to most players that a tka who has also mastered fencer would not have an advantage over a fencer with no other professions? Would it not stand to reason that a master fencer would be able to notice the attacks another fencer uses on him to counter those attacks even using tka?
Finally, each player is given 250 sp's to use as he or she chooses. USE THEM! If you keep dying in pvp/pve and you've only spent 96 sp's you need to spend some more or maybe just maybe you don't know how to play the profession you've chosen for yourself in which case you only have yourself to blame.
Hitokiri_kenshin
Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:04 am
#373
I'm going to focus on one key area here which desperately needs addressing: combat mission difficulty.
Master Creature handdlers who sub a heavy weapon profession can easily get difficulty 50-60 missions with their heavy weapons eqiped and two graul maulers grouped with them allowing them to take very high paying missions which in reality they may not even be able to handle.
On the other hand you may have a buffed master commando TKM who comes up to the same terminal, and even with his droid grouped, he can only get difficulty 25 missions which he can completely slaughter with his eyes closed.
Whats my point?
We all know how tough of missions we can handle (ok well most of us at lest). Why not let us input the difficulty of mission we want to attempt. Whats the worst that could happen? Players get killed because they bit off more than they could chew right?
This happens every day in places like Ft Tusken, the Corvette, and the beloved Death Watch Bunker.
Its just a bit irritating to have to deal with working on making money oar earning FP by fighting MOBs that have a snowflake's chance in hell of killing me, and not being paid squat to do it. Its boring, overly time consuming, and its not fun at all.
I want to be able to go to a planet like Dantooine and be able to go strait to the mission terminal and bring up Slinking Voritor Hunter Missions, and Mokk Shaaman camps without looking for an overt person with an ATST to group with to raise the difficulty. I can handle it without the ATST.
awthtem-xour
Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:39 am
#374
mix/matching: GREAT idea. shoot, everyone wishes they had more skill pts ! The people constantly whining about FOTM templates should just shut it. If you are gonna complain about someone's template, then mimic there's, and beat them fair and square. OR, you could just do EXACTLY what you want to do, and be happy doing it. I'm really hoping the combat revamp equals out PvP... this would make this thread a moot point.
Movietaz
Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:28 pm
#375
I'll focus on a few professions:
Commando, my absolute favorite and worst done profession in the game. What is the definition of a commando? It should be a character that can use any weapon, perform any tactic, use BIG GUNS. But the way you guys have designed it, he is a weak character with the ability to Flame somebody once in a great while, but not against big mobs. And look at the characteristic you need Unarmed XP to get it. WHY? Commandos use no TKA weapons... So how do you make it better? Simple: Give him access to all the weapons, Schwarzenegger could use em, Rambo could use em. Take away the need for the Unarmed chain or give him the unarmed weapons. Add in some BIGGER GUNS, how bout a chain laser gun, how bout a tripod standing machine gun,how bout a device to call down asatellite strike on a mob.....
Pistoleer, what do you think of, Jango Fett, twirling 2 guns and dropping them in a holster on each leg. My point? Let them use 2 weapons. And for anything else, just plain fix the special weapons. Oh yeah, and why would a pistoleer not be able to use all the otherpistol type weapons in the game??????
TKA, simple, 2 weapons, more weapons.
AND WHY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD are TKA, Swordsman, Fencers, Pikeman the most lethal characters in the universe? It should be Jedi #1, Anybody that carries a blaster #2. Nothing more to say there.
fuzznavel
Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:40 am
#376
you mean not yet possible combinations? current combinations that are good for the game? right now there are tons of useful combinations and each player has the oppertunity to pursue them on his own to fit his own playstyle. imo the system works well now, but would work better if.
1. profession's weapons would be fixed, each doing the appropriate damage type.
2. certifications fixed
3. specials fixed
without these core profession systems fixed, how can anything be properly balanced? how can a person decide which mixing avenues to take unless everything at his disposal works? i might want to be a rifleman with some access to heavy weapons.... but the only one that really works is the flame thrower. get my drift?
I completely agree with this statement from Meeuki. The current way that everything is set up is brilliant, just fix what isn't working.
Don't re-invent the wheel, if you do the above statement then you will still keep me happy because I love the system the way it is. In some instances, I don't want to master certain professions because the other skilltrees are completely useless. I have done my fare share of combat roles from melee to range even to hybrids professions like commando and Bounty-Hunter. Acid rifles from what I hear, still don't work as well as the flamethrower or the carbine in BH is completely useless to learn, so why do it?
Why spend the skill points on something that is on a useless section and master isn't worth it.
More weapons for some of the professions, why do we get the weapon at novice and nothing at master? Why not reward the player with another/better weapon at master. Dangling that carrot in front of us to moviate use to do that instead of defenses or things that we can go without.
Hammur_Grond
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:30 pm
#377