Development Cycle Archive

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Xeranx wrote:

What some people are failing to see (and us veterans aren't entirely helping the matter) is that we don't accept the fact that fan fest attendees are the ones that should get in first for this reason: Not all fan fest attendees are best suited to test JTL.

Again, most fan fest attendees *are* Veterans. And you're right, not all of them are necessarily best suited for serious testing by default. Just as not all "Veterans" in general are best suited to test JTL either whether they went to Fan Fest or not. Just because you have had an account since day one doesn't automatically make you a serious minded tester. So stop with theautomatic belittling and typecastingof people who went to Fan Fest, because seriously, that'syour realissue here, not whether or not they'll be serious minded testers or not. You don't even have a prayer of making that argument without having to admit it's no different on the other side of the fence.

There are beta testers for the ground game (that haven't gone to fan fest) that are excluded from this process simply because they didn't pay to get in.

Wrong.Not one person has told you that former SWG beta testers are being excluded from the process. They've said veterans will be second in line. If the time comes that they've said "Ok all the veterans are in" and you're not part of that crew, then and only then will this statement will be truthful...and not a moment sooner.

When we see that it's not the quality of the tester, but the quantity of money that allows us to get in it makes us feel devalued.

What even defines a "Veteran" in the first place here? How long you've had an account. Which means you've been paying money for a very long time to play. Does paying for a game account for 14 months straight automatically make you a serious minded tester? Of course not. Your argument is not any less based on 'money' than the idea of Fan Fest attendees being allowed in first. Stop pretending it's otherwise. The simple fact of the matter is that you're upset because you're not in yet and others are. You find it convienient to just flippantly wave your little hand and typecast them all as little childish and/or rich n00bs who got special priviledges that are totally undeserving of them. That's an enormously insulting, assumptive, pompousload of garbage. If you had been at Fan Fest yourself and actually met and listened to most of these people during the various topical forums you'd understand how ignorant some of you guys sound when you're complaining about the Fan Fest folk. They were and are some of the most diehard Star Wars fans and most serious minded gaming folk you'd ever meet in your life, and let me assure you, we all took it to the devs with our various complaint and wishes for the game and let them hear our voice. I feel totally confident in saying at least 90% of the people I met/spoke with/listened to/observed that attended Fan Fest are people who I have the utmost confidence in seriously testing the game. And I'll be damned if I could find 90% of the people who complain and whine and moan about not being in yet and the Fan Fest folks being let in first that I could say the same about based on their lack of maturity, patience, and serious minded approach in posting their viewpoints.

The beta testers for the ground game were invited because of their posts on the pre-beta boards. They were chosen by what they brought to the table and how they brought it.

Read the above. In the majority of cases, these same people have done the same and continue to do the same.They're certainly no less qualified or serious minded than all these 'mature veterans' in this thread screaming and gnashing their teeth because they're not in JTL beta yet....

Something I think many needed to be reminded about is that we had to pay for shipping of the beta discs. Some said you get to get into beta, stop crying about having to pay $6 to play/test it. Many of us thought regardless of how "inexpensive" it was for us that we shouldn't have to pay to test a product.

You weren't paying to test a product, you were paying to cover the production and shipping costs of the beta discs. If you choose to view it otherwise that's your problem.

Something else that should be said about the veterans wanting to get in as soon as possible is that we were there when the game was going to be released. Even someone like me who was a newbie to testing saw the flaws and knew it wasn't ready to go live. It left a bad taste in our mouths. Many of us felt disgusted because we couldn't use the testing period to shape the game into what would essentially be fun. Had we had ample time to test the ground game wouldn't be in the shape it's in now.

This much I'll agree with, it was launched 6 months too soon at least IMHO. But that call wasn't one the devs themsevles wanted, I feel pretty confident that. I'd be willing to wager that, to a man in a candid conversation, every one of them would have preferred to have had at least another 6 months to work on the game before it was released. Even amidst all the gripes and complaints about SWG and its problems I've had on my own over all the time I've been playing from beta forward, one thing I came away with from Fan Fest is a newfound respect and admiration for these guys, because they truly, truly love Star Wars and love this game and want to make it the best thing out there. It just takes time to bring that about with a game this massive and this complex...a game that dwarfs everything before it by several factors in that regard, a point people convieniently overlook....and given that time, this game will eventually be almost everything a die hard Star Wars fan could have hoped or dreamt for. Some people lack that patience and refuse to wait around....my only response to that is, go ahead and leave and waste your time elsewhere, because you'll be back. Sooner or later.

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TalonKarrdeTN wrote:

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Xeranx wrote:

Again, most fan fest attendees *are* Veterans. And you're right, not all of them are necessarily best suited for serious testing by default. Just as not all "Veterans" in general are best suited to test JTL either whether they went to Fan Fest or not. Just because you have had an account since day one doesn't automatically make you a serious minded tester. So stop with theautomatic belittling and typecastingof people who went to Fan Fest, because seriously, that'syour realissue here, not whether or not they'll be serious minded testers or not. You don't even have a prayer of making that argument without having to admit it's no different on the other side of the fence.

When I mentioned veterans in this post I meant beta tester veterans. I wasn't belittling anyone at any time. If not all Fan Fest attendees are qualified to beta test the product accurately then it stands to reason that the same applies to veterans right? I don't look at things one way, or at least I try not to. There's two sides to everything and I try to look at both.

You're wrong about my "real issue" as you noticed further down in my post about how beta testers weren't given ample time to test the product. I had a chance to head down to Fan Fest, but I felt I had more important things to do with my money such as school.

Wrong.Not one person has told you that former SWG beta testers are being excluded from the process. They've said veterans will be second in line. If the time comes that they've said "Ok all the veterans are in" and you're not part of that crew, then and only then will this statement will be truthful...and not a moment sooner.

This is what happens when you don't proofread a post. That line should read: There are beta testers for the ground game (that haven't gone to fan fest) that are excluded from being the first ones in to test simply because they didn't pay to get in. I value their opinion more than any veteran, fan fest attendee or otherwise because of how they were chosen to attend.

What even defines a "Veteran" in the first place here? How long you've had an account. Which means you've been paying money for a very long time to play. Does paying for a game account for 14 months straight automatically make you a serious minded tester? Of course not. Your argument is not any less based on 'money' than the idea of Fan Fest attendees being allowed in first. Stop pretending it's otherwise. The simple fact of the matter is that you're upset because you're not in yet and others are. You find it convienient to just flippantly wave your little hand and typecast them all as little childish and/or rich n00bs who got special priviledges that are totally undeserving of them. That's an enormously insulting, assumptive, pompousload of garbage. If you had been at Fan Fest yourself and actually met and listened to most of these people during the various topical forums you'd understand how ignorant some of you guys sound when you're complaining about the Fan Fest folk. They were and are some of the most diehard Star Wars fans and most serious minded gaming folk you'd ever meet in your life, and let me assure you, we all took it to the devs with our various complaint and wishes for the game and let them hear our voice. I feel totally confident in saying at least 90% of the people I met/spoke with/listened to/observed that attended Fan Fest are people who I have the utmost confidence in seriously testing the game. And I'll be damned if I could find 90% of the people who complain and whine and moan about not being in yet and the Fan Fest folks being let in first that I could say the same about based on their lack of maturity, patience, and serious minded approach in posting their viewpoints.

You state that it's insulting to insinuate that people are rich, but you leave your statement to question the maturity of others?

Let me lay this out for you now: I don't call them childish. If that was derived then I apologize because that was not my intent at all. You don't get your message across by insulting anyone and I try not to do that. Unfortunately this medium leaves the posters tone to interpretation and that can cause a bit of trouble that was unwarranted. If I come right out to insult anyone they'd know it, but since I don't intend on doing that you'll have to give me the benefit of the doubt that my tone is neutral.

I had a chance to attend as I said above, but I had better things to do with my money and I could bring my concerns to the developers here on the boards. Sure a face to face helps, but I'm not going to fly clear across the country to get them to listen to me when they put this method of communication here for that reason.

Read the above. In the majority of cases, these same people have done the same and continue to do the same.They're certainly no less qualified or serious minded than all these 'mature veterans' in this thread screaming and gnashing their teeth because they're not in JTL beta yet....

I don't think I said there weren't qualified to test did I? My point was these were the people I want in there first and foremost.Whether they attended Fan Fest or not doesn't matter to me as long as these veteran beta testers are there first.

You weren't paying to test a product, you were paying to cover the production and shipping costs of the beta discs. If you choose to view it otherwise that's your problem.

I don't think it's too farfetched to think people were paying to test a product. If you didn't pay the $6 then you didn't get the discs, correct? Frankly I've never heard of any company that would charge their customers to test their product. Maybe I haven't been around many betas, but as far as I know companies always payed the testers to test their product.

Something else that should be said about the veterans wanting to get in as soon as possible is that we were there when the game was going to be released. Even someone like me who was a newbie to testing saw the flaws and knew it wasn't ready to go live. It left a bad taste in our mouths. Many of us felt disgusted because we couldn't use the testing period to shape the game into what would essentially be fun. Had we had ample time to test the ground game wouldn't be in the shape it's in now.

This much I'll agree with, it was launched 6 months too soon at least IMHO. But that call wasn't one the devs themsevles wanted, I feel pretty confident that. I'd be willing to wager that, to a man in a candid conversation, every one of them would have preferred to have had at least another 6 months to work on the game before it was released. Even amidst all the gripes and complaints about SWG and its problems I've had on my own over all the time I've been playing from beta forward, one thing I came away with from Fan Fest is a newfound respect and admiration for these guys, because they truly, truly love Star Wars and love this game and want to make it the best thing out there. It just takes time to bring that about with a game this massive and this complex...a game that dwarfs everything before it by several factors in that regard, a point people convieniently overlook....and given that time, this game will eventually be almost everything a die hard Star Wars fan could have hoped or dreamt for. Some people lack that patience and refuse to wait around....my only response to that is, go ahead and leave and waste your time elsewhere, because you'll be back. Sooner or later.

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sabercrystal wrote:

Hmm...Fan Fest...no mail...hmmm......Time to mail the devs!

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The big moment for Fan Fest attendees has arrived! Bright and early today, we started sending out Beta Invites for the Jump to Lightspeed Beta Test!

If you went to fan fest, you will receive an invite to participate in the JtL Beta Test either today or tomorrow. The letter you receive willgive youinstructions on how to download and the information you need to get started.

If you attended fan fest and have had a technical difficulty, please let us know.

Things to consider:

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ImaSith wrote:

I got a beta invite today (16th september), I'm from UK and did not attend the Fanfest

Been playing since launch though

Imasith

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Bleh might still be hope for me yet lol! more or less in same boat as you apart from me moving country on July 5th and now im in Germany lol, hope that hasnt stoped then sending me any thing

Ill have to wait and see i suppose still got today to go, its now Friday 00:35 in the morning so got all morning, and afternoon and evening yet hehe seeing the US West coast is around 7-9 hrs behind hehe normaly Friday Feature be up around 02:00 in the morning my time hehe so gues 8 hrs but any who one can only hope and pray, after all they got to send the e-mails etc 1 by 1....

Message Edited by Fuegantus on 09-16-2004 03:36 PM

I see Blood! .... rEdRuM... ReDrUm... rEdRuM...