Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Community Relations Follow-up
NeoCai wrote:
Are you going to address this list of constant excuses and misleading statements from you the Developers. Heck even a simple apology for a year + of misleading.
To be frank, you owe us explanations. Detailed updates. You have not shown an ability to follow up on your statements. Below is a collected list of statements going back a year.
Thread Begins.........................
Here is why some of us are soooooooooooooooooooo upset right now. You tell us to not make the combat revamp up to be some holly grail of fixes but you have been pumping it up for around a year now.
I am sure if I dig around I can even find other DEV's that mention it too...
***********************************************************************
TH
12/8/03
There is content in the works, GCW stuff, the combat revamp...
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
I know a bunch of this is in development, but it really is . The combat system is being rebalanced and going forward, its important to get your critical issues to klawlegna so we can act on it. The big bottleneck is communication and after the holidays, a lot of this will be ironed out and smoother.
Instead of "fixing this" and "tweaking" that and ending up with a wobbly 4 legged table because so many number are over-tweaked, we are just revamping the system, but that takes longer.
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
The short answer is that these items will be taken care of in the weapons balance. Specials, weapon stratification and the like will all be accounted for
(what ever happened to the weapons balance????)
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
I could, but everything is getting revamped. Id be more interested in hearing what you folks have to say on how you WANT it to stack since we are doing the combat balance.
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
If its big, its coming in the revamp and the Combat Balance
************************************************************************
TH 1/16/04 (does this one sound familar)
We are going to be revamping PvP, but in the meantime, we have to make some killer fixes to keep what is in live now, fun.
************************************************************************
TH 1/23/04
The combat balance is near and dear to my heart as are all player issues. I just have to juggle time, manpower and scheduling as well. What I do is I keep track of all the issues, label them and sort them. That way when I go to Blair, JustG and Runesabre and say "players need this fixed", its based on how many players are being effected.
The combat balance alone is the single largest player issue. It encompases about 34% of the Correspondent issues and much of the pain combat players are having. Pikemen, carbineers, commando heavy weapons, the cost of specials, HAM costs, all of that will be better when the combat balance is done.
The thing to remember is that because the combat balance touches so many other systems in the game, its going to take a while. The team thats working on this is working very hard and thats the best I can offer.
**************************************************************************
TH 2/6/04 (holy cow...the combat revamp is mentioned INFRONT of the jedi revamp)
2. For PvP and Base battle folks, your time is coming. Once we get past the Combat Balance and the Jedi Revamp, the PvP balance is scheduled. Its a multi-publish update (roughly planned atm) where will consider battlefield possibilities, PvP upgrades and so on.
*************************************************************************
TH 1/28/04
There are lots of ideas for sure, but right now, the team is focused on the Combat balance, the GCW, the Jedi Revamp, Correspondent/CSR issues, the publish theme, getting the existing professions improved and the dungeons.
*************************************************************************
TH 1/19/04 (HAM revamp...assuming this is combat revamp)
The HAM revamp will address all of that. It will repair everyone's specials, it will solve the slow downs in combat and many other things. The challenge is that its a core game system and its going to take a bit because people from many different teams have to be involved.
**************************************************************************
TH 2/12/04 (ouch...when I first read this...I thought it might come back to haunt him)
One message that is load and clear is that the combat balance is very important and we all know it is. So that means we have to get the combat balance done and in and polished.
**************************************************************************
TH 2/13/04
For the most part, the combat balance is just coding atm
and this
There is much more to the combat balance. The biggest change you will see is in the way the HAM works. It will have more of a regen effect rather than a "diminishing returns" kind of effect. On top of this, defense stacking, specials and all of the combat "components" will be tweaked for more fun and challenging play
***************************************************************************
TH 1/21/04
No, the development for the combat balance is being done all along. The develpment time for things like this is longer than most players realize. The "In Concept" cycle for combat roles per se is so that if players have any really great ideas pertaining what defines a profession's combat role, it can be added.
Once the basic design is done and the combat balance moves to the In-Dev phase, things can be tweaked a bit, but no major additions can be included. I thought it was important to get players ideas on combat roles and the dev team agreed.
**************************************************************************
TH 2/13/04
I pushed very hard for the combat balance and the team agreed so basically they did the crackdown stuff and then did as much of the Combat Balance as possible. The combat balance items that were selected because they effected creatures so much. The first part of the combat balance was balancing the creature table
AND
I'llbe preparing some Combat Balance stuff for next week thatwill help everyone get on the same page for going forward
***************************************************************************
TH 3/3/04
This is something Im checking to see if we can address in the weapon balance part of the larger combat balance, but I don't know what the answer might be. And in any event, concentrating on these minor things before the weapon balance isn't productive. We'll want to look at things when the combat balance is on TC
AND
Actually the game will be easier at the high end because the "invulnerable" templates will be fixed and all professions will be on a level playing field, but in any event, this is something we need to focus on after the HAM revamp goes to TC in Pub 8 and after the Combat Balance goes into effect (tentatively Pub 9 and holding...)
****************************************************************************
TH 4/12/04 (time for another meeting???)
We did have a meeting today and I fought hard to get the combat balance put back on the plate. By my reckoning, it represents about 35-40% of the player issues. Would you say thats a wrong direction? I'm always open to ideas that speak to the most players at any given time.
*****************************************************************************
TH 3/2/04
As far as combat template stacking, this is all part of the combat balance. I mentioned early on that we'd be going through a painful period and this is it. Once the HAM revamp hits the system (keep your fingers cross, it should be in Publish 8) all of these changes will make more sense. It will change the way combat plays and the majority of the discussion points regarding combat will change. Many players are still seeing the way the system was or is, and not as it will be.
The core interaction of combat pools will still work the same, but the way it feels in combat will be different. Once it goes to TC, Im hoping to see all the combat experts get online and play it out so we can tweak it - - it will be a critical period. I know Im anxious to see it
********************************************************************************
TH 4/13/04
Atteke wrote:
Thunderheart could you guys put the combat balance on Test Centre in it's current condition like you did with the new HAM system in January? just so we can take a look at it.
-Thanks
Not really. Not for now anyway. You see, if we put it on Test Center, we'd have to push it out in Publish 9 with the the way the process works. Once a clump of code is integrated, "its in there". Thats where the sanbox that we've been talking about comes into play. This sandbox would be like a second Test Center, but configured in a way where it would be insulated from the live code and we would be able to push different versions out much easier without interfering with current process.
*********************************************************************
TH 4/19/04
Originally, the Combat Balance was delayed and I worked with the correspondents to get a list of "must haves" from the various profession communities. Since that time, I've have stressed the importance of the combat balance with the team and we are getting it back into the mix, though as you might guess, the schedule is pretty full. Because of logistics, its going to take a couple weeks of information gathering on the technical side before we have a plan to move forward on. We will see the CB soon though.
***********************************************************************
TH 4/19/04
We're in the planning stages now. I want to help set expectations as best I can. At this early stage, I would make the following comments:
- The biggest change in the CB that will be a "sensation", and by that I mean something that players will
change them after the CB gets published.
5/04
29/04
What will change is the mechanical balance - - especially with the HAM revamp portion of the CB
We can also further tweak the Smuggler’s combat role in the combat balance
The combat balance will bring elements of both to a Swordsman’s specials with the lions share of focus on re-tweaking the current specials to be more effective
These are two very important melee considerations for the combat balance
1 Answer to rule them all…
In closing, one thing that is very important to keep in mind is realistic expectations.The reality is that there are a huge number of player questions and answers that hang on the combat balance.What I don’t want to see happen is that because many questions revolve around a tight group of answers that the scope of the work gets expectations set so high that they are impossible to meet.We all have high hopes for the combat balance and the certainty that the Combat Balance is very, very important.We are putting a strong focus on special training and hardware to give the effort a leg up and will make this as cool as possible, but I wouldn’t look on it as a magic bullet, but more as an exciting change in direction.
*****************************************************
TH 4/22/04 (OUCH OUCH)
Why is it going to take more than a year post-launch to make this happen?
It's not. We've been talking about things internally a lot. I've stressed the importance of these changes and everyone agrees. We've been going over the implementation details for a couple of weeks now so that we can get this back on track. JustG will be going into more detail in his next State of the Game letter which will be coming out in the next couple of days.
******************************************************
TH 6/3/04
This is definitely a topic we can discuss further in our upcoming Combat Balance focus threads.
...and this is another great example of something the correspondents and I will want community input on during the testing while the CB sandbox is up.
This is an early answer and is subject to change, but one of our goals for Commandos in the Combat Balance is to change the way Heavy Weapon modifiers work
...but we wont know until the Combat Balance sandbox is live).
When the Combat Balance begins (which will be soon), the correspondents and some players will be brought on to a special Combat Balance server
Lightsabers have been balanced against the system after the combat balance
The most important component to this is to keep giving good, solid feedback to your correspondent so I can bring these opinions to the development team while the CB sandbox is live.
You can look forward to sweeping changes in terms of functionality, speed, etc.But again, I stress, we talk about this topic a great deal in a conceptual form.The rubber is going to meet the road when we bring the correspondents and other players onto the Combat Balance Sandbox server
Again, absolutely.These changes are the types of things we want to address in the Combat Balance
Squad Leader
What is the SL revamp timeframe?.It's still going take place after the combat rebalance, correct?
Its going to be released in the same publish
To answer your question though, this is something we can, and will, talk about during the Combat balance
Yes, Black Sun Razor Knucklers will be back in the game after the combat balance
****************************************************
TH 6/14/04
Waste93 wrote:
How about some info on the combat revamp. There are lots of rumors floating around on this one. And since the answer to just about every question the combat professions ask is "wait for the rebalance" it would be helpful.
Once we get through the Jedi Revamp, I'll be posting lots of thread. We'll have a lot of focus threads and the like and after P9, I'll start making the weekly roundtable have a CB focus to cover specific issues.
*******************************************************************
TH 6/10/04
Weaponsmith
Are stun weapons going to see a major rebalance within the future?
Yes. Stun weapons (particularly stun batons) were never intended to be “the weapon” that everyone wants because it is the most effective. SWG’s weapons were always supposed to have a variety of useful and efficient weapons available, but here again, with all the tweaks and changes over the last 8+ months have caused a series of imbalances. This is definitely something that will be looked at during the combat balance
I beleve this speaks louder than words.....
Ive been here sence launch and this is all we heard more of the same....It is truely sad
DayWalkerRori wrote:
NeoCai wrote:
Are you going to address this list of constant excuses and misleading statements from you the Developers. Heck even a simple apology for a year + of misleading.
To be frank, you owe us explanations. Detailed updates. You have not shown an ability to follow up on your statements. Below is a collected list of statements going back a year.
Thread Begins.........................
Here is why some of us are soooooooooooooooooooo upset right now. You tell us to not make the combat revamp up to be some holly grail of fixes but you have been pumping it up for around a year now.
I am sure if I dig around I can even find other DEV's that mention it too...
***********************************************************************
TH
12/8/03
There is content in the works, GCW stuff, the combat revamp...
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
I know a bunch of this is in development, but it really is . The combat system is being rebalanced and going forward, its important to get your critical issues to klawlegna so we can act on it. The big bottleneck is communication and after the holidays, a lot of this will be ironed out and smoother.
Instead of "fixing this" and "tweaking" that and ending up with a wobbly 4 legged table because so many number are over-tweaked, we are just revamping the system, but that takes longer.
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
The short answer is that these items will be taken care of in the weapons balance. Specials, weapon stratification and the like will all be accounted for
(what ever happened to the weapons balance????)
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
I could, but everything is getting revamped. Id be more interested in hearing what you folks have to say on how you WANT it to stack since we are doing the combat balance.
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
If its big, its coming in the revamp and the Combat Balance
************************************************************************
TH 1/16/04 (does this one sound familar)
We are going to be revamping PvP, but in the meantime, we have to make some killer fixes to keep what is in live now, fun.
************************************************************************
TH 1/23/04
The combat balance is near and dear to my heart as are all player issues. I just have to juggle time, manpower and scheduling as well. What I do is I keep track of all the issues, label them and sort them. That way when I go to Blair, JustG and Runesabre and say "players need this fixed", its based on how many players are being effected.
The combat balance alone is the single largest player issue. It encompases about 34% of the Correspondent issues and much of the pain combat players are having. Pikemen, carbineers, commando heavy weapons, the cost of specials, HAM costs, all of that will be better when the combat balance is done.
The thing to remember is that because the combat balance touches so many other systems in the game, its going to take a while. The team thats working on this is working very hard and thats the best I can offer.
**************************************************************************
TH 2/6/04 (holy cow...the combat revamp is mentioned INFRONT of the jedi revamp)
2. For PvP and Base battle folks, your time is coming. Once we get past the Combat Balance and the Jedi Revamp, the PvP balance is scheduled. Its a multi-publish update (roughly planned atm) where will consider battlefield possibilities, PvP upgrades and so on.
*************************************************************************
TH 1/28/04
There are lots of ideas for sure, but right now, the team is focused on the Combat balance, the GCW, the Jedi Revamp, Correspondent/CSR issues, the publish theme, getting the existing professions improved and the dungeons.
*************************************************************************
TH 1/19/04 (HAM revamp...assuming this is combat revamp)
The HAM revamp will address all of that. It will repair everyone's specials, it will solve the slow downs in combat and many other things. The challenge is that its a core game system and its going to take a bit because people from many different teams have to be involved.
**************************************************************************
TH 2/12/04 (ouch...when I first read this...I thought it might come back to haunt him)
One message that is load and clear is that the combat balance is very important and we all know it is. So that means we have to get the combat balance done and in and polished.
**************************************************************************
TH 2/13/04
For the most part, the combat balance is just coding atm
and this
There is much more to the combat balance. The biggest change you will see is in the way the HAM works. It will have more of a regen effect rather than a "diminishing returns" kind of effect. On top of this, defense stacking, specials and all of the combat "components" will be tweaked for more fun and challenging play
***************************************************************************
TH 1/21/04
No, the development for the combat balance is being done all along. The develpment time for things like this is longer than most players realize. The "In Concept" cycle for combat roles per se is so that if players have any really great ideas pertaining what defines a profession's combat role, it can be added.
Once the basic design is done and the combat balance moves to the In-Dev phase, things can be tweaked a bit, but no major additions can be included. I thought it was important to get players ideas on combat roles and the dev team agreed.
**************************************************************************
TH 2/13/04
I pushed very hard for the combat balance and the team agreed so basically they did the crackdown stuff and then did as much of the Combat Balance as possible. The combat balance items that were selected because they effected creatures so much. The first part of the combat balance was balancing the creature table
AND
I'llbe preparing some Combat Balance stuff for next week thatwill help everyone get on the same page for going forward
***************************************************************************
TH 3/3/04
This is something Im checking to see if we can address in the weapon balance part of the larger combat balance, but I don't know what the answer might be. And in any event, concentrating on these minor things before the weapon balance isn't productive. We'll want to look at things when the combat balance is on TC
AND
Actually the game will be easier at the high end because the "invulnerable" templates will be fixed and all professions will be on a level playing field, but in any event, this is something we need to focus on after the HAM revamp goes to TC in Pub 8 and after the Combat Balance goes into effect (tentatively Pub 9 and holding...)
****************************************************************************
TH 4/12/04 (time for another meeting???)
We did have a meeting today and I fought hard to get the combat balance put back on the plate. By my reckoning, it represents about 35-40% of the player issues. Would you say thats a wrong direction? I'm always open to ideas that speak to the most players at any given time.
*****************************************************************************
TH 3/2/04
As far as combat template stacking, this is all part of the combat balance. I mentioned early on that we'd be going through a painful period and this is it. Once the HAM revamp hits the system (keep your fingers cross, it should be in Publish 8) all of these changes will make more sense. It will change the way combat plays and the majority of the discussion points regarding combat will change. Many players are still seeing the way the system was or is, and not as it will be.
The core interaction of combat pools will still work the same, but the way it feels in combat will be different. Once it goes to TC, Im hoping to see all the combat experts get online and play it out so we can tweak it - - it will be a critical period. I know Im anxious to see it
********************************************************************************
TH 4/13/04
Atteke wrote:
Thunderheart could you guys put the combat balance on Test Centre in it's current condition like you did with the new HAM system in January? just so we can take a look at it.
-Thanks
Not really. Not for now anyway. You see, if we put it on Test Center, we'd have to push it out in Publish 9 with the the way the process works. Once a clump of code is integrated, "its in there". Thats where the sanbox that we've been talking about comes into play. This sandbox would be like a second Test Center, but configured in a way where it would be insulated from the live code and we would be able to push different versions out much easier without interfering with current process.
*********************************************************************
TH 4/19/04
Originally, the Combat Balance was delayed and I worked with the correspondents to get a list of "must haves" from the various profession communities. Since that time, I've have stressed the importance of the combat balance with the team and we are getting it back into the mix, though as you might guess, the schedule is pretty full. Because of logistics, its going to take a couple weeks of information gathering on the technical side before we have a plan to move forward on. We will see the CB soon though.
***********************************************************************
TH 4/19/04
We're in the planning stages now. I want to help set expectations as best I can. At this early stage, I would make the following comments:
- The biggest change in the CB that will be a "sensation", and by that I mean something that players will
change them after the CB gets published.
5/04
29/04
What will change is the mechanical balance - - especially with the HAM revamp portion of the CB
We can also further tweak the Smuggler’s combat role in the combat balance
The combat balance will bring elements of both to a Swordsman’s specials with the lions share of focus on re-tweaking the current specials to be more effective
These are two very important melee considerations for the combat balance
1 Answer to rule them all…
In closing, one thing that is very important to keep in mind is realistic expectations.The reality is that there are a huge number of player questions and answers that hang on the combat balance.What I don’t want to see happen is that because many questions revolve around a tight group of answers that the scope of the work gets expectations set so high that they are impossible to meet.We all have high hopes for the combat balance and the certainty that the Combat Balance is very, very important.We are putting a strong focus on special training and hardware to give the effort a leg up and will make this as cool as possible, but I wouldn’t look on it as a magic bullet, but more as an exciting change in direction.
*****************************************************
TH 4/22/04 (OUCH OUCH)
Why is it going to take more than a year post-launch to make this happen?
It's not. We've been talking about things internally a lot. I've stressed the importance of these changes and everyone agrees. We've been going over the implementation details for a couple of weeks now so that we can get this back on track. JustG will be going into more detail in his next State of the Game letter which will be coming out in the next couple of days.
******************************************************
TH 6/3/04
This is definitely a topic we can discuss further in our upcoming Combat Balance focus threads.
...and this is another great example of something the correspondents and I will want community input on during the testing while the CB sandbox is up.
This is an early answer and is subject to change, but one of our goals for Commandos in the Combat Balance is to change the way Heavy Weapon modifiers work
...but we wont know until the Combat Balance sandbox is live).
When the Combat Balance begins (which will be soon), the correspondents and some players will be brought on to a special Combat Balance server
Lightsabers have been balanced against the system after the combat balance
The most important component to this is to keep giving good, solid feedback to your correspondent so I can bring these opinions to the development team while the CB sandbox is live.
You can look forward to sweeping changes in terms of functionality, speed, etc.But again, I stress, we talk about this topic a great deal in a conceptual form.The rubber is going to meet the road when we bring the correspondents and other players onto the Combat Balance Sandbox server
Again, absolutely.These changes are the types of things we want to address in the Combat Balance
Squad Leader
What is the SL revamp timeframe?.It's still going take place after the combat rebalance, correct?
Its going to be released in the same publish
To answer your question though, this is something we can, and will, talk about during the Combat balance
Yes, Black Sun Razor Knucklers will be back in the game after the combat balance
****************************************************
TH 6/14/04
Waste93 wrote:
How about some info on the combat revamp. There are lots of rumors floating around on this one. And since the answer to just about every question the combat professions ask is "wait for the rebalance" it would be helpful.
Once we get through the Jedi Revamp, I'll be posting lots of thread. We'll have a lot of focus threads and the like and after P9, I'll start making the weekly roundtable have a CB focus to cover specific issues.
*******************************************************************
TH 6/10/04
Weaponsmith
Are stun weapons going to see a major rebalance within the future?
Yes. Stun weapons (particularly stun batons) were never intended to be “the weapon” that everyone wants because it is the most effective. SWG’s weapons were always supposed to have a variety of useful and efficient weapons available, but here again, with all the tweaks and changes over the last 8+ months have caused a series of imbalances. This is definitely something that will be looked at during the combat balance
I beleve this speaks louder than words.....
Ive been here sence launch and this is all we heard more of the same....It is truely sad
Indeed. They need to print out this post and hang it on the wall with a big red cross over it, it shows everything that was wrong in the past.
But let's try to stay positive and give the new team a chance.
+ The bug list is a step in the right direction. Getting DEVs to openly admit something is a bug is a good step.
- They announcement that no new dungeons will be developed is a major downside. Everyone with a new profession (including Jedi) is supposed to kill the samesame7-10 creatures that are worth something over and overfor a loooong time to come. This is a mindboggling decision, really mindboggling. What happened to the "expect more instanced dungeon" promise ?
= The board revamp is, well, let's stay positive and say that we don't know yet.
+ The extra developers are a step in the right direction.
= The reaction to (yet another series of)the new top 5 lists is yet unknown, so we'll see.
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Beldraen wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
It's important for us to start with an overview before filling in details. Following updates will include more specific information.
Once again, I am not trying to harp, but I would like to disagree. An overview is not where a design process should start. The information in the link is actually, for the most part, meaningless.
As an example, what if I said this is what I am going to do next. I am going to suggest we design a car that next iteration in design. It is going to be robust, supportive, and positive to the user experience. It must complement the driver's needs through superior handling. It must make the driver have at his control with necessary accessories.
What did the above paragraph say to you? Do you think it is going to be a good car? What is supportive? It is a car that is engineered so well is doesn't break down or a car that uses standard, common parts so it is easily repaired? Is supportive car that can pull a trailer or hold five occupants well? Does superior handling mean that the car has very sensitive handling to allow for controlled maneuvers or lose control to handle over-corrected behaviors or does it mean the vehicle has four-wheel drive? Does accessories mean it should have a lot of power sockets or that it must have a tail hook?
These are very feel-good words, but they are design ambiguous works. Again, I seriously suggest that this is SOE is consistently on the wrong design philosophy. SOE has had 1.5 years to break the circle of design, and I have not seen anything that leads me to expect that any transformation has occurred away from the status quo. This a textbook case of active inertia. Again, there are materials that can help SOE.
I provided that link to make sure people knew the update will have more information than what is in that link. I think you will find that the overview update has a bit more detail than the example in your post. Right now we're kind of going in circles on this issue since you haven't seen the update and I can't post it yet. I just sent an updated version after getting some feedbackso hopefully we can get it approved asap.
It should give a good account of the direction of the combat upgrade along with some specific examples, but it won't include everything.
Could you give us before tomorrow's HoC? 
Angrod
NeoCai wrote:
Are you going to address this list of constant excuses and misleading statements from you the Developers. Heck even a simple apology for a year + of misleading.
To be frank, you owe us explanations. Detailed updates. You have not shown an ability to follow up on your statements. Below is a collected list of statements going back a year.
Thread Begins.........................
Here is why some of us are soooooooooooooooooooo upset right now. You tell us to not make the combat revamp up to be some holly grail of fixes but you have been pumping it up for around a year now.
I am sure if I dig around I can even find other DEV's that mention it too...
***********************************************************************
TH
12/8/03
There is content in the works, GCW stuff, the combat revamp...
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
I know a bunch of this is in development, but it really is . The combat system is being rebalanced and going forward, its important to get your critical issues to klawlegna so we can act on it. The big bottleneck is communication and after the holidays, a lot of this will be ironed out and smoother.
Instead of "fixing this" and "tweaking" that and ending up with a wobbly 4 legged table because so many number are over-tweaked, we are just revamping the system, but that takes longer.
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
The short answer is that these items will be taken care of in the weapons balance. Specials, weapon stratification and the like will all be accounted for
(what ever happened to the weapons balance????)
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
I could, but everything is getting revamped. Id be more interested in hearing what you folks have to say on how you WANT it to stack since we are doing the combat balance.
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
If its big, its coming in the revamp and the Combat Balance
************************************************************************
TH 1/16/04 (does this one sound familar)
We are going to be revamping PvP, but in the meantime, we have to make some killer fixes to keep what is in live now, fun.
************************************************************************
TH 1/23/04
The combat balance is near and dear to my heart as are all player issues. I just have to juggle time, manpower and scheduling as well. What I do is I keep track of all the issues, label them and sort them. That way when I go to Blair, JustG and Runesabre and say "players need this fixed", its based on how many players are being effected.
The combat balance alone is the single largest player issue. It encompases about 34% of the Correspondent issues and much of the pain combat players are having. Pikemen, carbineers, commando heavy weapons, the cost of specials, HAM costs, all of that will be better when the combat balance is done.
The thing to remember is that because the combat balance touches so many other systems in the game, its going to take a while. The team thats working on this is working very hard and thats the best I can offer.
**************************************************************************
TH 2/6/04 (holy cow...the combat revamp is mentioned INFRONT of the jedi revamp)
2. For PvP and Base battle folks, your time is coming. Once we get past the Combat Balance and the Jedi Revamp, the PvP balance is scheduled. Its a multi-publish update (roughly planned atm) where will consider battlefield possibilities, PvP upgrades and so on.
*************************************************************************
TH 1/28/04
There are lots of ideas for sure, but right now, the team is focused on the Combat balance, the GCW, the Jedi Revamp, Correspondent/CSR issues, the publish theme, getting the existing professions improved and the dungeons.
*************************************************************************
TH 1/19/04 (HAM revamp...assuming this is combat revamp)
The HAM revamp will address all of that. It will repair everyone's specials, it will solve the slow downs in combat and many other things. The challenge is that its a core game system and its going to take a bit because people from many different teams have to be involved.
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TH 2/12/04 (ouch...when I first read this...I thought it might come back to haunt him)
One message that is load and clear is that the combat balance is very important and we all know it is. So that means we have to get the combat balance done and in and polished.
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TH 2/13/04
For the most part, the combat balance is just coding atm
and this
There is much more to the combat balance. The biggest change you will see is in the way the HAM works. It will have more of a regen effect rather than a "diminishing returns" kind of effect. On top of this, defense stacking, specials and all of the combat "components" will be tweaked for more fun and challenging play
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TH 1/21/04
No, the development for the combat balance is being done all along. The develpment time for things like this is longer than most players realize. The "In Concept" cycle for combat roles per se is so that if players have any really great ideas pertaining what defines a profession's combat role, it can be added.
Once the basic design is done and the combat balance moves to the In-Dev phase, things can be tweaked a bit, but no major additions can be included. I thought it was important to get players ideas on combat roles and the dev team agreed.
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TH 2/13/04
I pushed very hard for the combat balance and the team agreed so basically they did the crackdown stuff and then did as much of the Combat Balance as possible. The combat balance items that were selected because they effected creatures so much. The first part of the combat balance was balancing the creature table
AND
I'llbe preparing some Combat Balance stuff for next week thatwill help everyone get on the same page for going forward
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TH 3/3/04
This is something Im checking to see if we can address in the weapon balance part of the larger combat balance, but I don't know what the answer might be. And in any event, concentrating on these minor things before the weapon balance isn't productive. We'll want to look at things when the combat balance is on TC
AND
Actually the game will be easier at the high end because the "invulnerable" templates will be fixed and all professions will be on a level playing field, but in any event, this is something we need to focus on after the HAM revamp goes to TC in Pub 8 and after the Combat Balance goes into effect (tentatively Pub 9 and holding...)
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TH 4/12/04 (time for another meeting???)
We did have a meeting today and I fought hard to get the combat balance put back on the plate. By my reckoning, it represents about 35-40% of the player issues. Would you say thats a wrong direction? I'm always open to ideas that speak to the most players at any given time.
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TH 3/2/04
As far as combat template stacking, this is all part of the combat balance. I mentioned early on that we'd be going through a painful period and this is it. Once the HAM revamp hits the system (keep your fingers cross, it should be in Publish 8) all of these changes will make more sense. It will change the way combat plays and the majority of the discussion points regarding combat will change. Many players are still seeing the way the system was or is, and not as it will be.
The core interaction of combat pools will still work the same, but the way it feels in combat will be different. Once it goes to TC, Im hoping to see all the combat experts get online and play it out so we can tweak it - - it will be a critical period. I know Im anxious to see it
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TH 4/13/04
Atteke wrote:
Thunderheart could you guys put the combat balance on Test Centre in it's current condition like you did with the new HAM system in January? just so we can take a look at it.
-Thanks
Not really. Not for now anyway. You see, if we put it on Test Center, we'd have to push it out in Publish 9 with the the way the process works. Once a clump of code is integrated, "its in there". Thats where the sanbox that we've been talking about comes into play. This sandbox would be like a second Test Center, but configured in a way where it would be insulated from the live code and we would be able to push different versions out much easier without interfering with current process.
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TH 4/19/04
Originally, the Combat Balance was delayed and I worked with the correspondents to get a list of "must haves" from the various profession communities. Since that time, I've have stressed the importance of the combat balance with the team and we are getting it back into the mix, though as you might guess, the schedule is pretty full. Because of logistics, its going to take a couple weeks of information gathering on the technical side before we have a plan to move forward on. We will see the CB soon though.
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TH 4/19/04
We're in the planning stages now. I want to help set expectations as best I can. At this early stage, I would make the following comments:
- The biggest change in the CB that will be a "sensation", and by that I mean something that players will
change them after the CB gets published.
5/04
29/04
What will change is the mechanical balance - - especially with the HAM revamp portion of the CB
We can also further tweak the Smuggler’s combat role in the combat balance
The combat balance will bring elements of both to a Swordsman’s specials with the lions share of focus on re-tweaking the current specials to be more effective
These are two very important melee considerations for the combat balance
1 Answer to rule them all…
In closing, one thing that is very important to keep in mind is realistic expectations.The reality is that there are a huge number of player questions and answers that hang on the combat balance.What I don’t want to see happen is that because many questions revolve around a tight group of answers that the scope of the work gets expectations set so high that they are impossible to meet.We all have high hopes for the combat balance and the certainty that the Combat Balance is very, very important.We are putting a strong focus on special training and hardware to give the effort a leg up and will make this as cool as possible, but I wouldn’t look on it as a magic bullet, but more as an exciting change in direction.
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TH 4/22/04 (OUCH OUCH)
Why is it going to take more than a year post-launch to make this happen?
It's not. We've been talking about things internally a lot. I've stressed the importance of these changes and everyone agrees. We've been going over the implementation details for a couple of weeks now so that we can get this back on track. JustG will be going into more detail in his next State of the Game letter which will be coming out in the next couple of days.
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TH 6/3/04
This is definitely a topic we can discuss further in our upcoming Combat Balance focus threads.
...and this is another great example of something the correspondents and I will want community input on during the testing while the CB sandbox is up.
This is an early answer and is subject to change, but one of our goals for Commandos in the Combat Balance is to change the way Heavy Weapon modifiers work
...but we wont know until the Combat Balance sandbox is live).
When the Combat Balance begins (which will be soon), the correspondents and some players will be brought on to a special Combat Balance server
Lightsabers have been balanced against the system after the combat balance
The most important component to this is to keep giving good, solid feedback to your correspondent so I can bring these opinions to the development team while the CB sandbox is live.
You can look forward to sweeping changes in terms of functionality, speed, etc.But again, I stress, we talk about this topic a great deal in a conceptual form.The rubber is going to meet the road when we bring the correspondents and other players onto the Combat Balance Sandbox server
Again, absolutely.These changes are the types of things we want to address in the Combat Balance
Squad Leader
What is the SL revamp timeframe?.It's still going take place after the combat rebalance, correct?
Its going to be released in the same publish
To answer your question though, this is something we can, and will, talk about during the Combat balance
Yes, Black Sun Razor Knucklers will be back in the game after the combat balance
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TH 6/14/04
Waste93 wrote:
How about some info on the combat revamp. There are lots of rumors floating around on this one. And since the answer to just about every question the combat professions ask is "wait for the rebalance" it would be helpful.
Once we get through the Jedi Revamp, I'll be posting lots of thread. We'll have a lot of focus threads and the like and after P9, I'll start making the weekly roundtable have a CB focus to cover specific issues.
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TH 6/10/04
Weaponsmith
Are stun weapons going to see a major rebalance within the future?
Yes. Stun weapons (particularly stun batons) were never intended to be “the weapon” that everyone wants because it is the most effective. SWG’s weapons were always supposed to have a variety of useful and efficient weapons available, but here again, with all the tweaks and changes over the last 8+ months have caused a series of imbalances. This is definitely something that will be looked at during the combat balance
When you're writing code, getting firmly entrenched into it all, you can really see some of the possibilities. As a web developer, I see this all the time in the comparitivly simple PHP work I do. You start looking at things and going "hey, we could redesign this and this and this, I can see how it'll work, and boy it would work a lot faster, and it would be a lot more fun". You can literally see it from an overview perspective, and it tends to look very simple. Then, you get down to the nuts and bolts of it, and it's some of the hardest work you've ever done!
I recently taught myself how to draw graphs using PHP. I saw it COULD be done, and I saw how it could work, once all the pieces were in place. Making all those pieces, and then implimenting them was a beast of a chore though. Going back and streamlining it and making it work better was even more tedious. I nearly gave up multiple times.
I think this is where most of the development staff for this game is. They can see the problems, and they can see the grand overview of the solutions, but getting from where we are now to those solutions is proving a tough task. I don't feel 'sorry' for the devs, I just understand what they're going through. It's difficult to explain to someone who hasn't worked a day in their life on some type of code, or 'built' anything. If you've done a home remodeling project you might see a bit of what's involved, but it's quite a bit more tedious, and the only things that get sore are your fingers and brain.
All the while, the devs know this, and are virtually screaming "We know we know! We're working on it!" and "Why are they so mad at us? We're going as fast as we can." The reason is the devs posted these grandiose ideas, and have given timetables to go with them (soon means a month, for example). While in reality, the developers were unsure how big of a change they were taking on originally, how many other things they'd find along the way, and how long each of those bits were going to take. It was more of an off-hand "yep, working on it" statement. Again, I'm not trying to defend the devs, the constant posts of 'soon soon soon' followed by not talking about it for months later are not excusable.
Another factor is developers trying to interperate what the user REALLY wants. You can shout till you're blue in the face about what you think you want, but are you sure? Take a look back, people were complaining adamantly that buffs were random, so they removed the randomness from them. Now everyone runs around with +2500 to all their stats, rather than the occasional low +1800 or even +1000. On top of that, you can always just get overbuffed if they're too low. This really took a lot of the challenge out of the game in my opinion. No more can a mob make me worry about dying, let alone even cause me a bit of discomfort as it pummels me. That took a ton of the challenge out of the game, for everyone. So, in essance, the player community (lead by the docs), asked for the challenge to be removed. We didn't know it at the time, but that was the end result. What's apparent now is that docs wanted buffpacks to show their craftsmanship better, and master docs should have always been able to buff better than a x/2/4/x doc, and that's where they should have focused.
Enough looking back, we can only go forward. The release of the buglist is a good first step. It'll be a checklist rather than an empty promise of what's being worked on. So long as it's updated (for example, a note by each item with the date it was last looked at and a comment like "backtracking code for such and such bug" or "caused by a runaway process, fix in alpha testing") and doesn't get a date till it's 'in publish' (example, "this if fixed, publish pushing out next week" or "fixed, in regression testing, current eta 1 month") this will truely help people understand that their issues are being adressed.
Second, the Combat Thingy™ notes. Most people are looking forward to this, mainly because this will provide the first step to (hopefully) this game reaching it's potential. There's a lot that is right with this game, that's why people are so adamant about getting it all fixed. If it really was broke beyond repair, we would have moved on long ago.
I know, I sound like a dev apologist. I'm not, really. I don't condone the constant false hopes we as a player community have been given by the development team. This, moreso than even the bugs themselves, has been the biggest let down of SWG. I hope that they've at least learned from all this, and going forward it'll be a lot better.
aradz wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Heh. Well we are working on a CU overview update to get things started and serve as a basis for the upcoming Developer Chat and future CU updates. That's in addition to the FF.
The developer chat is scheduled for Wednesday, January 19, 2005 at 7PM CDT. That's 1 Day, 14 Hours, 38 Minutes from this post. I would really like to be able to read this and digest it before the chat happens, so I can ask meaningful questions, rather than stuff that's already been answered.
Please, let us know when this is up.
That's the plan!
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
aradz wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Heh. Well we are working on a CU overview update to get things started and serve as a basis for the upcoming Developer Chat and future CU updates. That's in addition to the FF.
The developer chat is scheduled for Wednesday, January 19, 2005 at 7PM CDT. That's 1 Day, 14 Hours, 38 Minutes from this post. I would really like to be able to read this and digest it before the chat happens, so I can ask meaningful questions, rather than stuff that's already been answered.
Please, let us know when this is up.
That's the plan!
Very good news indeed Cal! Now, if you could possibly comment on the giant list of unanswered promises that has been reposted several times...
It takes very little time to search these boards and see from the history of dev posts, that much of the ground game is status quo from nearly release. I still think that SWG had one of the best releases in online gaming history, but that momentum is long sense gone and much of it has been wasted.
From what I understand, much of the team's problems with taking quick and decisive action come from too much red tape for every design decision.
Not to be uncaring or harsh, but that's not our problem. As end users, we just want things fixed and/or improved as promised in a timely manor.
After a year and a half, your team has two major problems.
1. Much of the game is not working as intended (i.e. not as fun as it should be)
2. You have lost most credibility with your community leaders and long time players.
I won't tell you how to do your job to fix these two problems, if you don't expect me to drink the kool-aid.
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
aradz wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Heh. Well we are working on a CU overview update to get things started and serve as a basis for the upcoming Developer Chat and future CU updates. That's in addition to the FF.
The developer chat is scheduled for Wednesday, January 19, 2005 at 7PM CDT. That's 1 Day, 14 Hours, 38 Minutes from this post. I would really like to be able to read this and digest it before the chat happens, so I can ask meaningful questions, rather than stuff that's already been answered.
Please, let us know when this is up.
That's the plan!
why not just simply give permanent full read-only access to the complete, detailed design documents as they develop till final release of CU to anybody?
nobody expects any suprises nor additional new features that would be marketing-wise spoiled by pre-release of information, we simply expect you to fix a broken core system in the game .....
I know that would be quite a breakthrough, innovative, "first in market" way of customer relation management in entertainment software industry but you might want to consider that it's just the standard procedure for any custom-tailored contract work ..........
sorry if that sounds quite sarcasticly, it's not ment that way and i do positvely acknowledge that recently presented formats for publish related issues are a major step in the right direction.