Development Cycle Archive

Hi all.

First a small warning. I am not from the USA, and this message will include some spelling errors (unless my English has improved since school).

I am posting this thread as a ‘flag to the devs’ – trying to start a discussion about what I believe miss in SWG and how to make the game more playable and interesting (I am talking gameplay stuff - not bug stuff). This was origginally posted on the game guide forum, but I might as well post it here as well.
I have been playing for 1½ year now, have done the hologrind and have a jedi plus a ‘normal’ toon. The stuff below is the things I find could have been done better:

Loot:
Most Weapons are alike – I like the slizing system, but a powerhammer with a 35% damage slize from a one Weaponsmith is (almost) exactly the same as a powerhammer with a 35% damage slize from another smith (more or less). This is because the smiths have ‘capped the system’ and are making the weapons nearly as good as they can be.

Now if we have some stuff (loot items of some kind) to put in the weapons when they are crafted it could help a lot (and give us something to strife for – while keeping a player crafted economy). I know we have Ackley bones, and Nym Motors and the like, but they are just adding damage, or are not influencing the weapon enough.

I want to be able to find loot that a weaponsmith can craft into a weapon from that e.g. gives 1-200 energy damage added to the base damage, and while another could give 1-150 energy, and 3 seconds later adds 1-80 acid damage.
I want to make the decision: Is the second one better because it gives more damage and two types of damage but over longer time, or should I go for direct damage?
I want to find these loot items to put in the weapons, so I have some influence on the stuff I use, and to make choices of what my weapon should do (what if the acid damage mentioned above was 1-80 after 15 seconds? Ect.). This is not a suggestion to make ‘more powerfull weapons’, just to make them different from each other, and customizable.

Basically what I am trying to say is: I want something to hunt for besides a blue rug or a golden sculpture (which I really don’t care about). The combat classes are depending on the crafting classes for weapons and amour, but the crafting classes have no need for the combat classes besides ‘they buy our stuff’.

I would like to get exited when I loot someone (like I was in the holocron days when a dark trooper gave the ‘you have lootet the corpse of all items’ message), and not just think. Gee… another thread for some rug.

The loot system works fairly well in space. We have a mass on the ships, and items that wary in effectiveness/damage/mass. We have to evaluate if weapon A is better than weapon B, if A gives more damage and have more mass… We need this on the ground!

The same goes for Amor. We all look like clones in our Composite amours. OK we weary in colour, some have lekkus sticking out of their helmets and once in a while you stumble across an ubese guy, but generally we all look alike.
What if we could find loot that had an impact on our amours the way I described in the weapons section?

What if it also had an impact on how the amour looked? We should decide/customize our characters to the point of ‘will I use these +25 stun proctection layers in my helmet, when it makes my character look like a rhinoceros?’

I know the devs are talking about the ‘Loot craziness’ patch but as far as I can see, we are getting loot like ‘this thing makes my pistol shoot blue bolts in stead of red’ and more ‘arts and paintings’ stuff. There are some signs of good loot here (like the creature loot that can boost stats like chefs food does) but it seems fairly limited. I sure hope we get some damage and eguipment customization/experimentation, to be able to hunt for ingredience for the ‘uber’ rifle or ‘super’ helmet – e.g. exactly for a doc/rifleman.

Buffs:
I for one am looking very mutch forward to the combat rewamp. Why is it that I in buffed condition can walk up to a rancor lair (one of the ‘should be’ toughest critters in the galaxy) and spinattack it with my powerhammer killing 15 rancors and a lair, while making coffee?

The fact that we can spam specials, and solo handle even the toughest creature in the galaxy is just plain wrong. Yes - Of course the good loot should be on the tough creatures, but that would just give us something to hunt for. I would love the idea of a group working together, and cheering when they finally brought down a rancor – hoping for some good rancor hide for the groups doctor amour.

With the buff system we have now, every man is a one person army, we don’t need groups, and we currently don’t need medics to help us (after we are buffed). I find this one of the major flaws of SWG.

It works well as Jedi on Padwan level. You don’t have a lot of force. You don’t wear amour, so even if your buffed, you need to time your special moves, use stims once in a while and have your speeder ready, should some nasty critter aggro. This is playing – preparing for battle, using timing, taking a risk – and hopefully getting a reward besides xp! We need more of this in the normal system, so its playing the game, and not grinding the game for ‘levels’ (skillpoint use).

Level progress:
With the system as we have it, I believe that we are levelling too fast. You can master a combat class in less than a week, playing casually doing buffs, solo group, quenkers. Most (not weaponsmith) crafting classes are the same. Gather materials, may take some time (you can do your combat class here) but then its macro-trail-craft whatever X times and your master.

What I am asking is this: It should take longer to master a class. There should be quests involved (difficult ones like the michaelle quest at jedi padwan), in getting to the higher levels, and there should be more progress when advancing in a class. Doing a melee class is just ‘get spinattack – and spin awayyy’ until master. There are no real progresses in between – or rather there are no real differences between the specials. Yes I get some specials and hit a bit better for more damage, but it’s mostly spin attack on lairs until master (or at least until you get ‘spinattack2’ where you have to change the macro – and then spinattack2 until master).

As for the crafting classes, they should lean more on ‘people using your items xp’ than crafting xp. The problem here could be that only masters were crafting the stuff people could use, but if items had a ‘level to use item’ on them, the novice crafters would craft to the novice combat professions, and the masters to the masters. Maybe a weapon crafted by a master should not be able to be used by a novice?

I know we have this to a degree (we get certifications for different weapons at different times) but its not at all at a level where it can be used – its more like ‘get the ‘master weapon’ at novice TKA and spin away. This system would encourage people to interact more, and not only use the ‘3 best smiths on the server’ waypoints!

An empire divided:
I remember when I had SWG in my hand in the shop. ‘An empire divided’ sounded to me like a bunch of PvP action, but it wasn’t the case. I went rebel. And at first we had plenty of PvP. Living in Ancherhead we had Imperial raids on the city, and planned attacks against Bestine all the time, killing troopers and other players. Nice. But this isn’t so anymore. I can go to a imp city to buy my amour without any problems. I really don’t know the solution to this system, but I don’t think its working at the moment.

Maybe choosing a factionside should make you a permanently overt PvP player (Neutrals for non-PvP people)?
I just don’t feel the empire is divided, and really want it to be – I miss the Bestine/Ancherhead war and the constant ‘being on your toes’!

Phew.. that was a lot… Well I know I am not right in all I write, but I think there is a lot of stuff that could be done better to make the game more enjoyable for us players. I like the game as it is, but want to fall in love with the game!

I hope you fellow SWG players will add comments and ideas to this thread, to keep us alive.

Viva SWG!!

Uforxa
Sunrunner

SWG has the most broken economy in gaming, I don't see how that is so important to preserve. Cosmetic props and new nonbroken but still worthless items are still equal to junk and point to a complete lack of understanding as to what players want. The Economy is flat broken, it drives players away who don't want to craft and the reward system the old one and the new one that equates to the old one still produces a game that doesn't reward us for playing it.

WoW has sold hundreds of thousands of Boxes and it has very happy players because it believes in rewarding players and making them feel like their night was well spent when they log off.

I don't know many people who feel that way in SWG or have in over a year as you keep reworking pieces of it over and over without producing a system that is ever substantially better than the last.

Brag about the new Jedi System. It's a proud achivement only when compaired to the previous one but no one is happy with in at the player level.

This loot is junk by all but name and this priniciple of game design is destroying SWG. The only people rewarded for playing this game should not be crafters. If the economy is so important then perhaps SOE needs to higher some Economists because what you have is thouroughly broken anyway.

Forgive my bluntness but this game will not stop it's constant spiral downward until someone faces facts and changes the focus of this game from infinite rewardless grind to something that makes us want to play. This is Starwars, thousands want to enjoy it and your product drives even the devoted fan away in tears.

"Yes - what if ... all the database bugs were not SOE's fault but Microsoft (assuming they use SQLSVR) or Oracle's or whoever makes their database? What if ? Game gets cancelled because of people griping and griping and devs getting unhappier and unhappier and leaving for greener pastures (think of Earth and Beyond - it CAN happen)."

If your customers are complaining then it's your fault. If the Database engine doesn't do it's job it's SOE's fault as they picked it and said it would do the job.

They give us less of everything in this game than any other major game. We have less storage ( Shadowbane even has more ), fewer characters, and less far less fun.

If you make a product and you sell it then the ability to deliver the product becomes your responcibility. If you can not make items that don't shift into an alternate reality from time to time or buildings that don't appear 10% of the time then there is no one who can take the blame for you.

Asherons Call never has buildings or content vanish. EQ doesn't have things just disappear. WoW doesn't either. They designed the game and still having glitches where speach is delayed for 30 minutes or infinitely. Where houses don't spawn graphicly ext. are all design issues which SOE alone is responcible for. Our contract is with them as long as we are their customers and no one else.

sooo whatever happened to this lootrevamp?

has anyone looted skill buffs yet we gonna get another loot pass with more interestin loot?

cuz i havent noticed a change still same crap loot

"Please don't mock SOE. Specially on our own forums." Xahn Community Representative

IGNPC: We often hear the loudest cries from a relative minority. Still, it seems odd that all the comments sent our way have been negative.
Haden Blackman: Yeah, all the guys who are happy with everything are playing the game. They aren't spending their time sending you guys letters or posting on the forums.

Idea I had the other day, wasn't sure where it might be good to post, so it'll go here. Now I know we're big on a player economy, but one thing I always like about the game "Gemstone III" was when the devs would have traveling merchants played by themselves or whatever come to towns and sell really cool unique items and such. These wouldn't always be useful, sometimes just unique, but some times you'd find a guy with cool new armors, etc,etc. It's be cool even if they just sold some current stuff with different looks or colors. Perhaps they could sell wild and crazy igredients or parts to make stuff made by players different or better. I dunno, Gemstone was text and this is graphics based, so this probably isn't as easy in any way (in the other game, a tatoo merchant used to come to town who could put cool tatoos on you that showed in your bio, etc), but it was really something cool, as when one hit a town you'd hear the audible buzz of "this merchant is here or there" and "the juggernaut is coming to town." Player made loot is awesome, but it's cool to get some unique stuff now and then....

New Loot I would like to see

A Stock that a player can Add on to his rifle/Carbine/Flamethrower

That adds +75 to point blank accuracy had about 400 condition and can be added or removed like a powerup it would also change ranged damage to melee damage at range 3 to zero

limit the specials that will work with this to something like suprise shot or strafe shot 2 so its random pool damage

A Bayonet that a player can add to a rifle/carbine/Flamethrower

That adds a subsantial Bleed and changed ranged damage to melee damage for the weapon at range 3 to zero give it like 250 condition

A scope that a player can add to a rifle/carbine /flamethrower/pistol

That adds 10 meters to the weapons RANGE give it 250 condition and let it work like a powerup for adding and removing

1st account Leva 249 point jedi Free Alt -Leva- Rifle Goddess
I want whats best for the overall health of game...................Do you ?

Swg has enough loot as far as I am concerned. People have 6 houses each jammed with the stuff. Just my two cents.

End loot camping!

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I don't like pointless grinds.
Thank you for reintroducing decay!!!
I like a complex, immersive world simulation, full of possibilities, challenges and roleplay.
I want a player driven, crafting-based economy.

mm, no. Thanks, try again.

You want armor that's hard to get? Try and buy some RIS or BH armor. And if you've been paying any attention at all, you'd have read that they're changing armor with the CU, likely making all armor viable again.

Besides, if you want armor that not many people use, you could always try fighting unbuffed in chitin or mabari. Unless you're too chicken. Buckaw.

Karetyr Sales and Services Network
SWG Veteran Since June 28th, 2003

One question:

Where I store this loot?

My houses are already full.

yey fun is...fun

////C o - M a r U d e r\\\\

.:: RebForce :: Commando ::.
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