Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Crafting Critical Failure Rates

LagWhore
Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:26 pm
#14

Critical Failures on assembly go way up when the vendors start acting up. For example, last night I was restocking a vendor, I was out of factory crates of most items so I made over 60 items by hand. I would make 3-6 items and list them on the vendor. As the time it took to list items whent up, so did the failure rate.


Just before the vendors crashed I was seeing a 40% failure rate.About 10 minutes later the vendors in this zone started responding again. Of course most of the items I had just listed were gone.


I have noticed this many times before. I generally dont craft if vendor or crafting tool lag is noticiable asassembly failureswill be way over norm (for me about 5-7%).


Oh and I'm really really tired of losing items to vendor crashes. Please either fix vendors or just remove the merchant profession from the game.



Bonedome
Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:27 pm
#15

A _very_ important consideration for you...


BE pets require TWO crafting stages, one for the DNA (which isexperimented)and one for the critter (which is not experimented), hence two chances to critfail.


Is that "within the expected parameters"?


-Lens Larque/Master Bio-Engineer/Eclipse
Trynian1
Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:29 pm
#16

I get about the same on critiacal assembly failures.


Where you numbers don't jive withmine is in experimentation. I get an experimentation failure or some sort about 2 of 3 items made.


Counting moderate and good successes which are not good or moderate because they generall make the item less effectivethen it was, so it is actually a failure. Only experimentation that actuall impoves items for me is great or amazing so there are many more chances to fail verses succeeed.


Lonkley
Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:30 pm
#17

5% doesnt _sound bad_ but take us poor DE's. Lets say we do a probot. We need to make about 20 components. So that means if you do a probot by hand you should fail a part every time. (Reality is it always seems to fail on the final build).


At the beginning of the month, I was asked for an R2 Med w/ Food Crafting. The first 2 attempts failed on final assembly. Took an hour to get the order out. Was it just bad luck? hard to say. It just seems like lately when i do the final assembly, 1/2 the time its a failure. Part of this is probably because the complexity level is the highest. Whatever it is is **edit** irritating.








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palladiumleader
Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:32 pm
#18


D'oh! calculator typo! The actual numbers are slightly lower.


number of Probability

experiments:of a failure:

0 4.49%

1 8.5%

2 12.9%

317.1%

421.3%



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Numen
Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:43 pm
#19






Chrysalide wrote:

Assembly attempts: 1448
Assembly critical failures: 65
Assembly critical failure rate: 4.49%


Experimentation attempts: 1284
Experimentation critical failures: 54
Experimentation critical failure rate: 4.21%


These numbers do fall within the expected parameters of the crafting system. Regardless, the significant number of people that have raised this issue does still lend this topic an air of legitimacy. I am interested in hearing any suggestions, comments, and/or concerns that the crafting community (or anyone at all) might have about critical failures as they relate to the crafting process.






Fair enough. As we don't really know the actual numbers in the code we can only go on the information provided in the game.


When I open up my crafting tool and experiment on something. There is a bar graph on the right side that gives a %. At 2/4/2/1 in Architect I was making light ore mining units by hand. I never once allowed that % to be above 0%. However I failed on 2 of 12 that I made.


What many of us don't understand is how we failed when it showed 0%. I can expect something like .99% because the game rounds down in every case that I know of, but your results implied that 4%-5% is acceptable. What happened to that 0%?



One other thing your not taking into consideration. At this point in the game nearly anything less than a great or amazing success on most products is considered a crit failure by the crafter. There is no point in making a factory run of a gun that has 5 less dmg just because you got 1 good success.


While most people do factory runs and really aren't affected by crit fails that much, it is the people that hand craft that have the problems. Most items have 3-4 times that you must experiment to get the best results(you can't apply all 10 points in 1 shot). I'll use a 4% crit fail rate. 96% chance of not failing. 3 tries that is a 88.5% chance to succeed. 85%ish chance to succed with 4 times. While that still is decent we are talking about a master at those lvls. If 15% of the cars that Ford makes had to be scraped after they were finished you can bet people would be losing their jobs.


The simple solution to that is to allow all 10 points to be applied at once(Makes a maximum of 2 attempts needed)and don't penalize people for putting 3 points in 1 row, 4 in another, and 3 in another and experimenting once. At least the % on the right side says you are penalizing us for it, but I already proved that % wrong, so that statement is in doubt.





Amandil Morier - Tempest - Master Chef
Dinian
Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:45 pm
#20

In addition to the fact that one must experiment a number of times for an item typically, moderate successes have far too much bite to them.


For many crafters moderate might as well be "critical."



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NJ62
Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:48 pm
#21

Another issue is that moderate successes seem to lower stats, which makes no sense and it's quite annoying, considering that it was a "success." Add that to the crits, and experimenting on 3 stats per item, and it takes quite a few tries just to get no crits or moderates.


Also, higher complexity items tend to crit more, so I'm curious what item you did these tests on.




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Animi
Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:48 pm
#22






Faded_One wrote:
In my opinion any good success, moderate success, or anything other than Great Success is a failure.





Exactly.


Further, the failure rate (defined as anything less than agreat success)should be dependent on your experimentation level. Masters should fail maybe 1% of the time, while new crafters should fail maybe 5-8%





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Nallyamp
Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:50 pm
#23


I think something should be done to lower the rate. Ihad 3 swoop bikes all fail in a row. I am seriously pissed off about this as i lost 24 hours worth of resource gathering. I was using a public crafting station and a weapon, droid, generic crafting tool with 13.68%eff. Fair enough if 1 failed but 3 in a row is just stupid. The resources should not all be destroyed with a failure, you should get at least 25%-50% back for large resource items like swoops.
darthmole12
Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:51 pm
#24

Well, the important question really is the complexity of the items. It seems like that has a great effect on the critical failure rate. I never actually crunched raw numbers as a master DE, but it certainly seemed like I would fail on final combines of my probots about 20% of the time, but very rarely on the components themselves. Granted I only made a handful of probots after the assembly modifier was fixed, but it didn't seem to have that significant of an effect.



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Gyopi
Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:57 pm
#25






Bonedome wrote:

A _very_ important consideration for you...


BE pets require TWO crafting stages, one for the DNA (which isexperimented)and one for the critter (which is not experimented), hence two chances to critfail.


Is that "within the expected parameters"?


-Lens Larque/Master Bio-Engineer/Eclipse






And bioengineered clothing has three chances to fail. Once by the BE to make the tissue (I am not counting experimental failures), once to turn the tissue into cloth and once to make clothes out of that cloth. All I can say is that I am glad that milk will be more common now!




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GotEgg
Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:00 pm
#26

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but i'm short on time and can't read the whole thread.


Experimentation and crafting resultsseem to be tied to lag. The higher the lag, the low the rate of great/amazing success.


All data provided was taken from the Kauri server:


Outside anchorhead tattooine, using a ~+25 crafting station, and 14.31 tools. Months and months of crafting, would yield results as Chrysalide reported. Very rarely would i get a critical failure, more than 95% of my attemts were great success.


Picked up my shop and moved the same station and equipment to Dantooine into my player city. First thing i noticed when crafting on Dant is that schematics will take upwards of 15-20 seconds to load into the tool, and resources take about 10 seconds to load into their slots. Under these conditions, the failure rate jumps dramatically. This is actual data from my tests:


Dantooine:


Number of attempts: 100
Number of amazing success: 1
Number of great success: 31
Number of good success: 52
Number of moderate failure: 6
Number of critical failure: 10


Tattooine:


Number of attempts: 100
Number of amazing success: 21
Number of great success: 71
Number of good success: 2
Number of moderate failure: 0
Number of critical failure: 6


This test was repeated 4 times with simmilar data (Once by master: Architect (me), Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Doctor)


Hope this helps a bit





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