Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Weekly Roundtable Discussion (Week Ending 3-1-04)
sabacc1000
Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:39 pm
#235
Ok, first off, let me say that I'm really happy about the new looted schematics system. While some of my colleagues do no agree, I feel it adds some much needed content, helps interdependency (of which i'm a big fan) and gives the older masters something new and interesting to do. As a long-time master weaponsmith, i've been giddy about these new schematics, and have had a blast playing with these new items, and offering something new to the community.
But I have to say, I was fairly disappointed in the careless way that some of these schematics were implemented. Many of the new items are useless, and one isn't even craftable. For example:
The Crafter's apron: Great concept. Master tailors have something new to make, and depending on the type of crafting tool inserted, different crafting bonuses come out in the end. But wait...clothing and armor use the same tool. That's ok, though, because only armorsmiths need experimentation points, so this tool probably just gives armor bonus, right? No, for some unknown reason, this item gives clothing experimentation. Why?Currently clothing has no stats. The only clothing with stats are actually these new schematics, and i'm not entirely certain that clothing experimentation even does anything to these items. And if it does, is this really something that can be maxxed out with the experimentation points they already have? After all, you have to be a master tailor to make the item in the first place. As far as I can see it, there is really no point at all to this particular manifestation of the apron.
That could be forgiven though. At first I figured that maybe this was just a sweeping, "let's give bonuses to all crafting professions" thing. I had assumed that, as is the case with weapons and droids, that armor would be given another crafting bonus item to compensate for the fact that their tool yeilds clothing bonuses when used in the apron. Wrong. As far as I can tell, there was no item added to the game that gives armor experimenation bonuses. Did someone actually decide to give clothing experimentation (which does nothing) over armor experimentation (which can mean all the difference in the world to an armorsmith)? If so, why? I can see no logic behind such a decision.
Armorsmiths did get something though...the new enhanced Shield Generator. This has the potential to be a useful item. It has some nice resists, with a very high energy resistance in particular...until you cross a server boundary that is. This item is susceptible to the fluxuating stats bug that armorsmiths have been screaming about since launch. Why this? Why now? Why wasn't this item saved for after that bug was fixed? The development team could have easily come up with an alternative for this patch. Off the top of my head, I'd say a good idea could have been a schematic for a new layer that had more than one special resistance, with each capped at 2/3 what layers can do now. It could even be taken a step further (in keeping with the loot/interdependency theme) and require some new looted item that determines which pair of resistances the new layer would give. Neither of those things seems much more difficult than what was implemented, and these things could be useful now, not just someday down the road when a bug gets fixed.
Then there's the Droid Tookit. With the upcoming droid changes, in addition to those that were already made, I'm guessing that there are tons of DEs, and DE's in training, who were excited to hear about this item, which increases experimentation, and I believe assembly as well. Unfortunately, almost no one can craft this item. It requires a droid repair kit, which was removed from the game several months ago, and therefore cannot be crafted anymore. Was this intentional? I can't believe that this was intended to be a reward for those few who happened to keep these around all these months.
And finally, there's the Demolitions Belt. I don't even know what to say about this.... This item, in principle, must have been intended to be a bonus for grenade users (which comprise only a small portion of the commando population). I make grenades sometimes for customers, but usually it's only for special order now, since so few actually use them. Their biggest complaints are that they're too slow, and horribly inaccurate. I'd have liked to see these guys get to use these items for more than just the novelty of it, so a nice +10 speed and accuracy bonus would have done nicely. Instead, this thing gives only +5 to speed (the lesser of the two beasts), and +5 to grenade assembly, +5 grenade experimentation. Again...Why?It's annoying enough to have to explain to someone every other day that those grenade experimentation and assembly tapes that they looted are totally useless because that skill hasn't existed since Beta, and is no longer used by the game. Now the new commando item enhances skills that they haven't had for something like a year now?
It's possible there are others, but you get the point. While I do love the new loot system, in priciple, and in most of its applications, this is just sloppy. And very irritating.
I want to point out that none of these items are bugged. Bugs I can deal with, that's just a fact of this type of game. But someone must have actually gone in and specifically added these items to the game. What's the point of giving us items that cannot be used, cannot be made, or are simply another manifestation of a notoriously bugged item?
Ok, i'm done ranting for now, but any answers you can give would be much appreciated. If answers aren't possible, at least an acknowledgement that this is a problem would be a step in the right direction.
tattoodsleeves
Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:15 pm
#238
MasterNerfSlayer wrote:
tattoodsleeves,
The issue here is one of individualism. My idea of fun is different from yours, and Mr. JustG and co don't know what either you or I enjoy. All the can do is try to average out what the majority say they find fun, and implement it to the best of their abilities. What you say is fun and what you find fun are most likely 2 different things also, for it is likely that no matter how much detail you go into, what they implement even if they tried to do exactly what you wanted, would still not be what you want.
NerfSlayer, what I find fun and what other people find fun is always going to be different. I agree, completely, with that assumption.
However, what THOUSANDS of players don't find fun is the way that we've been given the shaft. No lube. No reach around. Players are CONSTANTLY complaining on their server forums, on profession forums and on these forums. Players are CONSTANTLY suggesting that certain things should not go live, on the TC forums, or that there are still bugs. Do the Devs actually listen? No. Need an example? Vehicles. Look at the day they went live. Remember how Coronet and Theed got turned into junkyards? THEY KNEW IT WAS STILL A PROBLEM!!! Vehicles went live, anyway, because SOE's concern is focused on drawing players in, not keeping them. New "content" (I use the word very loosely, gang) supposedly attracts people. What is NOT considered is that people asking around about a new game hear that SWG has a crap-load of problems, they're not going to buy the game because they hear about all the frustration. On the other hand, if that person hears that people are happy with the game and that it's constantly being updated with new content and almost bug-free, they're going to go out and buy the game.
Thus far, looking at the track record, which do you think is happening? Before vehicles came out, I recommended this game to a number of friends. It had its kinks to be worked out, just as all programs, in general. After vehicles went live, I started telling people to stay the *F* away, because the game has steadily gone downhill.
TH, if it's not too hard and you can understand plain English... WOULD YOU LISTEN TO OUR COMPLAINTS AND SUGGESTIONS, INSTEAD OF IGNORING US???
tattoodsleeves
Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:09 pm
#239
Rhooon wrote:
tattoodsleeves : If you don't like it... leave. Its that simple. Happy trails.
Rhoon, you work for SOE, don't you? After all, it's fairly obvious that the Devs are trying to run this game into the ground, so that the mass exodus will occur right on time for EverCrack 2.
ResistanceHawk
Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:23 pm
#240
I just finished flying to Mos Espa to be greeted by thousands of dead Stormtroopers as soon as I got to the entrance of the starport. As soon as my temperary covert thing wore off I started to try to help them out fromw what seemed to be just 1 like creature handler guy shooting at them from inside. I started using my fencing skills cause he seemed to suck, so once he started to run I ran after him and then the lag hit. All of a sudden I was dead from a TKA guy out of no where.
Now I wasn't just gonna lay down and let the rebs just rack up faction points by easily picking off the thousands of stormtroopers around, so I hopped on my swoop and flew to the Imperial Outpost declard came back called my 2 creatures and an at-st. Both my creatures were still dead from like 4 days ago, so I healed the baby one and called a different pet. Now I am ready to battle, or so I think
Enter the new CH problem... Creatures hover on me and sending them to go attack the rebs creatures just made the creatures come attack me, the baby desert eopie just died and stored right away and my dalrayke help its groud for suprisingly awhile after I had lag died (just incaped).
Now the whole time I had told my at-st to attack the rebels DECLARED creature as well, now that I was not being attack and the it was just me and the at-st and the rebels creature I took the time to Tell him to attack it, but the at-st would not listen... As this was happening I also noticed that all the NPC Stormtroopers that were standing around would not attack the rebels creatures unless I was attacking it and they came to help me out.
So my point here of the story is really just the last point I made, what is the point of having and imp factional pets if the ONLY thing they can do is attack the players, I can do that myself, all I want is protection for it to takes hits and assist in the much higher ham that the rebel's pets would have... And I have 2 at-st's the second I picked up the day before we were no longer able to call multiple at-st's but that was okay cause for some STUPID reason CH's still could.. luckly I was close to being able to get CH management 3 allowing me to do that, but that has been fixed now it is pointless to have more than 1 imperial faction pet, does that now seem like a waste of almost 10,000 faction points that you are only gonna use if they eventually kill the 55k of ham that the at-st holds. And it is absolutely stupid to use cause it makes it no fun, kills the players in 1 hit, and will NOT attack ANYTHING else....
All I know is if this goes on I'llhave hang up my stormtrooper armor on my wall and turn to the Rebellion since they get all the fun missions and all the imperial stuff I want is Rebel loots from rebel theme parks, which they have more of...
BenKenobi13
Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:57 pm
#241
PLEASE SOME FEEDBACK ON THE BH JEDI MISSION DROID ISSUE? IT WAS THE VERY FIRST RESPONSE IN THIS POST AND IT WAS NEVER ANSWERED. WHY CAN'T YOU COMMENT ON IT?!!!
Maidenchase
Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:10 am
#242
Wow , this getting long, I just wanted to second (or third) the post patch problem with CH PETS. Since the latest patch, both my pets stand in the exact same spot, which is usually right on top of my head. And they seem to run away a lot, My Kimo ran from a borgle the other day.
Thanks,
H.M.
Ragemaster9999
Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:16 am
#243
Hi TH. I know your busy and all, but could you please hotfix the CH.. the pathing is very screwed. Not to metion the range attack and use special attack command that have been broke since LAST YEAR. Can we get a fix on these items please? I hope its not too much to ask... unless this is all preplanned for droid handler 
Can we also please work on fixing old bugs and proffessions that have been skewed from the start (carbineer) BEFORE we add new professions and new content? Thanks, and keep up the hard work! 
EvanHalcyon
Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:17 am
#244
I'd like to bring up a topic that may not be very popular, or possible said many times before now. We've been told that the combat system within the game is being revamped and will take a few publishes to fully implement. What I'd like to know, is if the empire will be more true to form after this.
So far it does not feel as though the empire is a force to be feared in this game. Yes, the imperial crackdown is a step in the right direction, but it too lacks many qualities of the empire itself. I've seen rebels run through the streets of an imperial garrisoned city, killing storm troopers easily, while other storm troopers stand by and do nothing. At the very least, the entire garrison should come down swiftly on the rebel(s) who attacked their comrades.
Also, the renown effectiveness of the storm troopers seems to be lacking. There are a number of reasons for this I have seen, playing as a rebel myself. The storm trooper armor is fairly weak in my opinion, considering it's a military grade armor meant to deflect weapons, not merely look good. Also, the way the storm troopers strike aren't very imperial either. There's no sense putting 50 storm troopers in a when only a small percentage of that react to a strike at any one time. The empire is known for its brute force and should USE it. The empire should be able to take on opponents by using massive numbers and training to accomplish their goals. They should lay down blaster fire and throw grenades at an opponent, even if it means damaging a comrade being attacked. They should feel like the empire.
At the same time, the rebels should be adept at making hit and run engagements. Possibly the rebels should be more cunning with the use of specials to achieve their ends while the empire should use more strong-arm tactics.
I do not intend this to be a slight against the devs in any way as I love the evolving universe they're creating. But I would like to hear their thoughts on the matter as the empire seems to be more of what it will be after Return of the Jedi. Right now they're supposed to be at the height of their power, hunting down rebels and wiping out opponents at any cost to themselves. I think it would be fun and immersive to feel this in the game, and I hope others do too.
Just so everyone knows I've been a rebel for some time, so I'm not just speaking as an imperial 
Thanks for listening.
Finn Halleck
Gorath
CharPrime
Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:20 am
#245
SeaRaptor wrote:
Many weaponsmiths and customers are waiting to hear about the stealth FWG5 nerf that was pushed on us in Publish 6, where we can no longer extract pre-November patch copies of these weapons from crates.
There is a rumor that this culling of older weapons extends to repairs as well... that any repair attempt on apre-patch or krayt FWG5 will automatically fail.
Feel free to comment, it will be the first thing anyone has heard on the issue.
its true, i repaired a few pernerf scatters and 1 krayt fwg5all failed. i was using 99.6 repair kits and +21 worth of weapon repair tapes.
Hakkin
Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:21 am
#246
Thunderheart wrote:
Last Week'sThread:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=in_live&message.id=3805
Welcome to the Weekly Discussion Thread.
(I'll be out of pocket next Monday, so we're going to run this thread for 2 weeks)
I hope everyone had a great weekend
Discussion requires a two way communication, in this case, the community and the devs. So far, it has only been the community talking, still waiting on the devs to contribute and make this a true discussion.
1> If and when are the BH droids going to get fixed? This includes droid speeds as well as Jedi tracking.
2> When is the combat system going to be fixed, reworked, etc?
3> When are the answers to the 10 questions going to be answered? You know, with real answers as well, not "it will be covered in the combat fixe", "it is working as intended" and "we will have to get back to you on that"
I have done my part of discussing a long time ago, need for you to do yours now. Thanks.
Gebetob
Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:33 am
#247
Hakkin wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
Last Week'sThread:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=in_live&message.id=3805
Welcome to the Weekly Discussion Thread.
(I'll be out of pocket next Monday, so we're going to run this thread for 2 weeks)
I hope everyone had a great weekend
Discussion requires a two way communication, in this case, the community and the devs. So far, it has only been the community talking, still waiting on the devs to contribute and make this a true discussion.
1> If and when are the BH droids going to get fixed? This includes droid speeds as well as Jedi tracking.
2> When is the combat system going to be fixed, reworked, etc?
3> When are the answers to the 10 questions going to be answered? You know, with real answers as well, not "it will be covered in the combat fixe", "it is working as intended" and "we will have to get back to you on that"
I have done my part of discussing a long time ago, need for you to do yours now. Thanks.
/agree
We know you guys are reading these boards and this one especially.
We just want some clarification.