Development Cycle Archive

The only thing I notice about critically failing, is that when it does happen, it happens a few times in a row.

Experimentation attempts: 1284
Experimentation critical failures: 54
Experimentation critical failure rate: 4.21%

I read this post eirler today and just remembered it as I sit here frustrated trying to test some new gemstone I picked up for kinetic layers to see what the final new stats are going to be. I'm frustrated with crit fails mostly in expermenting and I think I've figured out one of the missing parts of your equasion. 4.21% failur rate is not bad untill you look at how most people craft experimentation and that 2 points at a time. the reason for this the best we can tell is the if you use one point and get 1.4% increase then you get 1% but if you use 2 points and get 1.4% on each then it rounds up to 3%. I am not sure of this but from constant crafting the accepted method is 2 points at a time. now with that being the base lets look at my problem with making these gloves

kinetic layer 5 exp runs
advanced ubese layer 5 exp runs
ubese gloves 5 exp runs

total of 15 expererimentaton runs to make my gloves

your test failure rates of 54/1284 breaks down to about 1 in 24 with 15 exp runs making my gloves I have over a 50% chance that one of them are going to be a crit fail

In the cases where the Sub components are made before hand your talking a rate of one in three items having a crit fail in them

This becomes very important to me because I do only custom work for myself and for guild mates with rare drop items if I was mass producing in a factory the loss of a few making schematics would not be a problem but when working with one chance to get it right limited items this is a big deal

Funk
Master armor smith
Sunrunner

please excuse spelling errors i'm comming off a 26 hours day at work and can't sleep due to construction outide my window (then again i never could spell)

Instead of everyone complaining about how this system is setup or spending hours computing what the exact failure rate is, why don't you go out there and take advantage of the resources you have and the skills you already earned. Sure it may take you 10-20 times to get a perfect storage module. And the same amont of time to get a good power core. But.. instead of outputting the product, save the data schematic!

Mass produce the data schematic of your power core that has an amazing success... then everyone will come to you when they need power cores. You can be the power core man. Someone else can be the Electronics GP Module Goto guy.... And if each artisan conentrated on this, then an architect could make a perfect factory. It's called teamwork. Bravo Devs! Way to boggle these 13 year old's brains a bit.

The last thing we need is to make it easy to create the best item in the galaxy. Where's the fun in that?

Krash Kompany, LLC

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CenoKreFey wrote:

The only way I would want critical failures in the game is if we still received full XP for crafting the item on a crit. failure (i.e. "we learn best from our mistakes") and if Master crafters never got them at all. And even this is not as good as canning them entirely.

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Have to disagree. Once you get Master, xp doesn't matter. I've spent probably 2% of my architect crafting timegetting xp to get to Master. Most crafting is post-Master.

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You should re-read my post. I think there should be NO critical failure at all. If the Devs think that Critical Failures should be in the game, I think there should be NO crit failures for Masters, and non-Masters should still get full XP for the item.

Is there really a good reason for Critical Failures? Honestly? I've tried and tried, but I can't see what they add to the game. Are there any players who think that critical failures are a good thing? Do they have any positive benefit whatsoever? I am honestly looking for an answer here. I have seen Dev posts that say "critical failures are here to stay" but they never provide a good reason. If the devs really want to irritate their players with a goofy mechanic like this, they are doing a great job.

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Korbus wrote:

Chrys,

My only concern with the critical failure rate is that there doesn't seem to be any bonus for the Master Crafter. I'm a Master Weaponsmith using resources with an average score of 800+, and I still crit fail just as much as an Expert Weaponsmith using resources with an average score of 300+. I don't know if that's the case - it just SEEMS like that's the case.

Experimentation results are even worse. There have been days when I've made enough resources for 12 weapons and gone through 7 or 8 experiment tests before I got 1 "great success." If I was a low level weaponsmith I could understand that, but it seems a little bit high when I'm a Master Weaponsmith using resources I've collected solely for their quality.

A little bit unrelated, but kind of related....

Has anyone noticed that sometimes a moderate success will actually increase weapon / component stats MORE than a great or amazing success? And somtimes a good success or just a "success" will lower the stats MORE than a critical failure?

I've had this happen regularly and was wondering if anyone else picked up on it.

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You know, I have actually seen a moderate success give a huge jump while crafting enhance packs. It was followed by a great success which didn't change the numbers at all.

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krashnik wrote:

Instead of everyone complaining about how this system is setup or spending hours computing what the exact failure rate is, why don't you go out there and take advantage of the resources you have and the skills you already earned. Sure it may take you 10-20 times to get a perfect storage module. And the same amont of time to get a good power core. But.. instead of outputting the product, save the data schematic!

Mass produce the data schematic of your power core that has an amazing success... then everyone will come to you when they need power cores. You can be the power core man. Someone else can be the Electronics GP Module Goto guy.... And if each artisan conentrated on this, then an architect could make a perfect factory. It's called teamwork. Bravo Devs! Way to boggle these 13 year old's brains a bit.

The last thing we need is to make it easy to create the best item in the galaxy. Where's the fun in that?

Krash Kompany, LLC

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The reason is to help the dev's find what "could be" wrong at the fail rate's to improve the fail rate system and so I don't see the point not testing the rate's, when it could help the dev's.

I'm one of the players who think critical failures should be in the game I don't think that someone can always make an item without problems. You could also say that fighters always hit their target and never miss it. It's the same I think. Critical Failure is a way to make crafting more interessing, you never know if you will get all your resources removed, because you could not make the item. I would even say that it is part of the game experience, don't forget that SWG is a RPG. In a RPG you never can all perfect.

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Chrysalide wrote:

I just wanted to thank everyone for their responses and feedback. I'm seeing a lot of valid concerns and a lot of good suggestions. There is a lot of intelligent conversation and insight here, and I am very impressed with the amount and quality of independent research that has been conducted.

More than anything I really wanted to find out what the crafting community thought about these numbers and about the state of the current crafting and critical failure system, and that's exactly what I'm seeing here. I really do appreciate it.

A lot of the ideas that I've heard from many of you echo some of the ones upon which we've been trying to develop here, and I've also seen a lot of good points that we hadn't taken into account but are now looking into. Additionally, I've taken note of a lot of good concepts that unfortunately we cannot implement at this time, but we may want to add in a future publish.

I know that we've been a little bit vague with the details to this point, but we're still hammering out some of the initial numbers, and I will keep you all up to date as we make progress. Once again, I very much appreciate all of your comments, and I appreciate your positive outlook as we work on this system. Please feel free to continue the discussion on this topic, as we will continue to check on the thread and review the feedback.

As always, thanks!

Jeff "Chrysalide" Carpenter

Developer

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welcome... who are you? where are your team comments?

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JenTara wrote:

I would DEFINITELY suggest you try to extend your "monitoring" to the main servers, because as Thunderheart stated on a previous issue (with the duping and unstorable vehicles) there is so many less people on Test Server, that it can be hard to catch all the bugs before things go live. Maybe your "rates" are ok for the test server, but maybe after tens of thousands of more crafting, that "pattern" will break down and the rates will show how they do on the main servers (if they in fact do).

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I forgot to say: The "monitoring" is on the main server, on Gorath to say it exactly. I test the surveying fail rate on the main server

i am 100% sure there are more critical fails than usual .