Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-4: Combat Roles; Combat Medic
Travixius wrote:
I don't think it is fair to have it both ways. If you guys want to keep your poison and disease power, you shouldn't have better healing then a doc. You guys all ready have a area heal which we do not. I read in an earlier post that one CM was saying that it should be CM and not doc to rez. Like I said you can't have it both ways, that would only make you even more powerful then what you are now.
Doctors are not the primary damage healers. Master medics are the kings of single target damage healng (note that doctors due not get any skills that improve damage healng anywhere in their tree). Doctors are, however, the primary wound healers and curers and buffers. Combat medics get no bonus to wound healing, no cures, no enhances, and no res.
This shouldn't be a doc vs. CM debate, but as a master in both, I consider master doctor at 140 skill points to be a much better value than master CM at 169 skill points.
well getting back on track....
I'd like to push for Combat Medic to be re-named Bio-Warrior...should clear up any confusion over our role 
poison for PvP needs a SERIOUS revamp
it needs to suffer from resists of soem sort
it needs to suffer the same 75% PvP reduction as everything else does.
The area of effect needs to be removed.....or Doctors need to be given an area cure to combat against it.
It is very overpowered and 1 or 2 CM's alone can turn the tide of a large scale PvP conflict. It just shouldnt happen.
Please read http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=21393 page 5 for all my thoughts on why Poison is overpowered for PvP.
With the least amoutn of combat XP required of any combat oriented class...CM's get probably the most potent attack in PvP. Why?
PanzerGR wrote:The area of effect needs to be removed.....or Doctors need to be given an area cure to combat against it.With the least amoutn of combat XP required of any combat oriented class...CM's get probably the most potent attack in PvP. Why?
Okay, first things first, about area of effect, tell me: what do we get to combat against people with all six of the top stats at over 3000? What do we get that compares to rez? What do we get besides a repetition of the medic profession? I would like to point out again that doctors, unlike us, actually get to keep all the mods they got at master medic, whereas we have a whole new set of mods, which puts us at a huge disadvantage, especially in the crafting line which, btw, is hell.
We're combat oriented? Really? Most potent attack in PvP? You're a n00b if you can't utterly own a CM in PvP. In groups, I'll admit, we're among the most powerful, but alone, we're easily beaten. I suggest you go train some more kid and come back when you're ready.
What defines theCombat Medicrole in combat?
What basic combat elements should they possess?
A: They have Poisons and Diseases, both single and area.
What offensive abilities?
A: Same as above.
What defensive abilities?
A: They can heal lots of people on the battlefield with 1 shot.
What unique abilities?
A: Same as above.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
A: Able to heal people who have taken damage from NPCs/Creatures or damage from Spamming Specials.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
A: There was a DoT power up idea brought up in a previous post on the CM board. A CM can make components that they can then sell to Artisans who then could make them into Poison Power Ups for weapons.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
A: The Mind Heal is a Nice thing.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
A: /sarcasm on - Being able to Poison and Disease everyone at 80m /sarcasm off
A: Mind Heals. They can Mind heal players like the heavy mind useage Rifleman or the Doctor who is trying to remove all the Posions and Diseases that the other CMs are throwing. They can then get those wounds healed by the entertainers in the camps at the staging area behind them and then come back into the fray.
Kavedawg wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
In a galaxy far, far away, it is a time of civil war. The Empire has taken control over the galaxy and attempted to build the ultimate battle station to enforce the will of the Emperor. The rebellion destroyed the fearsome Death Star and this galactic conflict is at its peak.
While studying medical nano technologies ata university you learn of the deaths of your friends and family. Caught in the crossfire between Imperial and Rebel forces the entire town was laid wasteand everyone you know is now dead. Doctorsinvolved on both sides of the battle were unable to get close enough to help theinnocent and whena cease fire was finaly called,too much time had passed to revive any of the fallen. With a heavy and hardened heart, you look to your studies and find that whatcan heal can also kill, and with minor alterations could do so with range and area. You vow to put an end to this conflict as quick as possible to spare the lives of the innocent. The ends do justify the means. You don't like killing, but sometimes it's neccessary.
* Game Space
Another basic concept to keep in mind when thinking about combat professions and their role in combat is Game Space. The next big consideration for assessing combat abilities is where the combat takes place. There are indoor spaces and outdoors spaces. Indoor spaces would be dungeons, bases and the like and outdoor spaces would be wilderness and/or city spaces.
I look at the battle at the end of Episode II on what outdoor combat in the GCW should be like, most of the shots fired were beyond the 64m range. Laser tanks, drop ships, arial support and bombardment, but that's another subject. For a CM the ability to hit their mark should apply as they move up the skill tree and should be limited to 64m. A young CM not practiced in throwing should miss on occasion or even hit an unintended target. AoE poisons should be less accurate but since they effect an area "almost" hitting your mark is good enough.
* PvP and PvE
In SWG, players can choose between PvE and PvP playstyles and even shift back and forth to play in elements of both. PvE is “Player versus Environment” and basically deals with fighting computer controlled enemies in combat. PvP is “Player versus Player” and is real players fighting real players and tends to be very tricky because anytime something in game is at stake (like faction equipment, etc), it is important to keep things fair and balanced, but also fun.
CM's and Doctors currently get the shaft in PvP battles where faction points are involved since we are too busy healinga grouptoapply a deathblow orwe are one of the first to go down. I would like to see FP dispersed in the same way combat xp is awarded when healing in combat.
* Profession Lifespan
What is the profession’s role in its novice state and how should the skill progress over the course of a player’s time investment in the profession? At all times any given profession should have a distinct role and value in combat. As a player progresses from Novice to Master, the profession should reflect something special about the profession and also be fun to play.
under the current system the novice CM DoT abilities are very poor and some adjustments should be made to the A and B line poisons/diseases. My suggestion for the medical dot system at the end of this post may help to solve some of the issues. I feel that the CM should be two parts medical xp, one part crafting xp, and one part combat xp. Some new weapons skills should be added to the CM tree and a possible weapon certification.Weapon abilities should be limited to suppresion fire tactics which would slow enemy advancement to a fallen member's position.
What defines theCombat Medicrole in combat?
For me, The ability to keep the group alive while keeping the enemy at bay and shortening the overall length of a battleby using some crowd controll/suppression firetactics as well as medical products. CM's should also be the nemisis of doctors, everythingdoctorsdo to help the group, CM's should be able to help prevent or undo. Everything a CM can do to help the group, doctors should be able to help prevent or undo
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Basic combat elements would be basic ranged weapon skills. Perhaps more effective specials comparable to /threatenshot or /warningshot could be added to the CM tree that would be effective against PvP targets as well
What offensive abilities?
The CM's should still depend on their poisons and diseases for the bulk of the damage they do but also possess some weapon skills which would cause an enemy toslow their advancement or run away. With the upcomming DoT revamp it might be possible to change how poisons do damage to both help PvP and PvE battles.
What defensive abilities?
Some ranged damage migitation should be added to the CM. Also the CM could provide some short term buffs that would "enhance" the group ability to aim, resist poison, resist burns, resist status effects or CM's could manufacture medpacks for the above abilities that would be used by properly trained squad leader to boost the SL group abilities.
What unique abilities?
CM's do have some unique abilities now but I would also like to see an area mind heal added to the CM abilities list.CM'scould also have some better "crowd control" ability which would help preventa fallen party member from recieving a DB in PvP combat. Fearcan be a powerfull weapon, CM's should be able to put it in a bottle. Some status effects could be added to CM weapons, A medpack that causes a spice downer effect (can't shoot while puking) would be in line. A medpack that causes an enemy player to "hallucinate" (under this condition a player's attacks can target bothfriend and foe, AoE attacks will need to be used with caution)would be nice. Also the ablility to shorten, or strip doctor buffs from an enemy player would be a nice unique ability
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
CM's should be able to provide efficientgroup healing, help to prevent damage taken to the group,as well as shorten what would normaly be a longdrawnout battle.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Many CM's have some monetary problems, some more interaction between the other professions can help. CM's could be allowed to manufacture chem granades that are usable by other combat professions. Of course the effectivness of the granade would not be as powerful as the medical quality products that CM's can use, but would be effective enough to help shorten a battle for a group without a CM. Buffpacks could be made by CM's and used by SL's that would enhance the group abilities that SL's have. Another possibility would be a counter for the AoE poisons,a AoEcure pack, or component for the AoE cure, would be crafted by CM's but only usable by doctors.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
With the comming changes in the HAM system, and the possible re-interduction of stims that heal mind, PvP battles will become longer and more drawn out than what they are now. If both doctors and CM's will be able to heal all three pools, this wouldgreatly reduce incapitation or outright prevent it. In this situation the winning side will be determined on who can cause the most wounds in the shortest time possible. Currently this is limited to CM's disease DoT's and Commando fire DoT's.
Also under the comming HAM system, a Players overall HAM will "shrink" while they spam specials and then will regenerate at a quicker rate than if damage were taken, but isstill dependant on the players secondary stats. Since CM's are the only profession that can directly target the secondary stats of a player by diseasing them, it gives the CM's a unique role in the GCW by effectively causing the enemy to weaken themselves by spamming specials with no regeneration ability.
There are alot of arguments against CM poisons in PvP battles, most of them due to the inability to heal the mind pool which needs to be addressed. Some arguments against the inability of doctors to effectively counter the AoE poisons and diseases are valid and I wish to make a suggestion since there is going to be a pass on the DoT system.Medical DoT'sshould take timeto reach their full damage potentialas they enter the bloodstream of the enemy and infecttheir vital organs.Medical DoT's should also have ahalf life anddamage should dwindle after reachingthis half life. My suggestion would be that the initial "tick" of damage be low and damage would double with every tick untill the half life of themedical DoTis reached or the medical DoT is cured. After thehalf lifeis reached the damage should be halfed untill the duration timer is reached. This would allow doctors more time to apply cures to party members preventing large amounts of poison damage and would allow CM's poisons to be more effective for a PvE group while big game hunting. It would also create a "need" for a cure if stim mind healing is introduced since damage is increased with every tick. If left unchecked it would be possible for the poison to cause a one tick incap even with constant healing to a poisoned player.
Under the above suggestion, poison resist gear,orinate creature resistscould be allowed to reduce the first tick of the poison thereby creating a possiblility of greatly reducing the overall damage that poisons will do over time.
Thunderheart wrote:
In a galaxy far, far away, it is a time of civil war. The Empire has taken control over the galaxy and attempted to build the ultimate battle station to enforce the will of the Emperor. The rebellion destroyed the fearsome Death Star and this galactic conflict is at its peak.
While studying medical nano technologies ata university you learn of the deaths of your friends and family. Caught in the crossfire between Imperial and Rebel forces the entire town was laid wasteand everyone you know is now dead. Doctorsinvolved on both sides of the battle were unable to get close enough to help theinnocent and whena cease fire was finaly called,too much time had passed to revive any of the fallen. With a heavy and hardened heart, you look to your studies and find that whatcan heal can also kill, and with minor alterations could do so with range and area. You vow to put an end to this conflict as quick as possible to spare the lives of the innocent. The ends do justify the means. You don't like killing, but sometimes it's neccessary.
* Game Space
Another basic concept to keep in mind when thinking about combat professions and their role in combat is Game Space. The next big consideration for assessing combat abilities is where the combat takes place. There are indoor spaces and outdoors spaces. Indoor spaces would be dungeons, bases and the like and outdoor spaces would be wilderness and/or city spaces.
I look at the battle at the end of Episode II on what outdoor combat in the GCW should be like, most of the shots fired were beyond the 64m range. Laser tanks, drop ships, arial support and bombardment, but that's another subject. For a CM the ability to hit their mark should apply as they move up the skill tree and should be limited to 64m. A young CM not practiced in throwing should miss on occasion or even hit an unintended target. AoE poisons should be less accurate but since they effect an area "almost" hitting your mark is good enough.
* PvP and PvE
In SWG, players can choose between PvE and PvP playstyles and even shift back and forth to play in elements of both. PvE is “Player versus Environment” and basically deals with fighting computer controlled enemies in combat. PvP is “Player versus Player” and is real players fighting real players and tends to be very tricky because anytime something in game is at stake (like faction equipment, etc), it is important to keep things fair and balanced, but also fun.
CM's and Doctors currently get the shaft in PvP battles where faction points are involved since we are too busy healinga grouptoapply a deathblow orwe are one of the first to go down. I would like to see FP dispersed in the same way combat xp is awarded when healing in combat.
* Profession Lifespan
What is the profession’s role in its novice state and how should the skill progress over the course of a player’s time investment in the profession? At all times any given profession should have a distinct role and value in combat. As a player progresses from Novice to Master, the profession should reflect something special about the profession and also be fun to play.
under the current system the novice CM DoT abilities are very poor and some adjustments should be made to the A and B line poisons/diseases. My suggestion for the medical dot system at the end of this post may help to solve some of the issues. I feel that the CM should be two parts medical xp, one part crafting xp, and one part combat xp. Some new weapons skills should be added to the CM tree and a possible weapon certification.Weapon abilities should be limited to suppresion fire tactics which would slow enemy advancement to a fallen member's position.
What defines theCombat Medicrole in combat?
For me, The ability to keep the group alive while keeping the enemy at bay and shortening the overall length of a battleby using some crowd controll/suppression firetactics as well as medical products. CM's should also be the nemisis of doctors, everythingdoctorsdo to help the group, CM's should be able to help prevent or undo. Everything a CM can do to help the group, doctors should be able to help prevent or undo
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Basic combat elements would be basic ranged weapon skills. Perhaps more effective specials comparable to /threatenshot or /warningshot could be added to the CM tree that would be effective against PvP targets as well
What offensive abilities?
The CM's should still depend on their poisons and diseases for the bulk of the damage they do but also possess some weapon skills which would cause an enemy toslow their advancement or run away. With the upcomming DoT revamp it might be possible to change how poisons do damage to both help PvP and PvE battles.
What defensive abilities?
Some ranged damage migitation should be added to the CM. Also the CM could provide some short term buffs that would "enhance" the group ability to aim, resist poison, resist burns, resist status effects or CM's could manufacture medpacks for the above abilities that would be used by properly trained squad leader to boost the SL group abilities.
What unique abilities?
CM's do have some unique abilities now but I would also like to see an area mind heal added to the CM abilities list.CM'scould also have some better "crowd control" ability which would help preventa fallen party member from recieving a DB in PvP combat. Fearcan be a powerfull weapon, CM's should be able to put it in a bottle. Some status effects could be added to CM weapons, A medpack that causes a spice downer effect (can't shoot while puking) would be in line. A medpack that causes an enemy player to "hallucinate" (under this condition a player's attacks can target bothfriend and foe, AoE attacks will need to be used with caution)would be nice. Also the ablility to shorten, or strip doctor buffs from an enemy player would be a nice unique ability
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
CM's should be able to provide efficientgroup healing, help to prevent damage taken to the group,as well as shorten what would normaly be a longdrawnout battle.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Many CM's have some monetary problems, some more interaction between the other professions can help. CM's could be allowed to manufacture chem granades that are usable by other combat professions. Of course the effectivness of the granade would not be as powerful as the medical quality products that CM's can use, but would be effective enough to help shorten a battle for a group without a CM. Buffpacks could be made by CM's and used by SL's that would enhance the group abilities that SL's have. Another possibility would be a counter for the AoE poisons,a AoEcure pack, or component for the AoE cure, would be crafted by CM's but only usable by doctors.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
With the comming changes in the HAM system, and the possible re-interduction of stims that heal mind, PvP battles will become longer and more drawn out than what they are now. If both doctors and CM's will be able to heal all three pools, this wouldgreatly reduce incapitation or outright prevent it. In this situation the winning side will be determined on who can cause the most wounds in the shortest time possible. Currently this is limited to CM's disease DoT's and Commando fire DoT's.
Also under the comming HAM system, a Players overall HAM will "shrink" while they spam specials and then will regenerate at a quicker rate than if damage were taken, but isstill dependant on the players secondary stats. Since CM's are the only profession that can directly target the secondary stats of a player by diseasing them, it gives the CM's a unique role in the GCW by effectively causing the enemy to weaken themselves by spamming specials with no regeneration ability.
There are alot of arguments against CM poisons in PvP battles, most of them due to the inability to heal the mind pool which needs to be addressed. Some arguments against the inability of doctors to effectively counter the AoE poisons and diseases are valid and I wish to make a suggestion since there is going to be a pass on the DoT system.Medical DoT'sshould take timeto reach their full damage potentialas they enter the bloodstream of the enemy and infecttheir vital organs.Medical DoT's should also have ahalf life anddamage should dwindle after reachingthis half life. My suggestion would be that the initial "tick" of damage be low and damage would double with every tick untill the half life of themedical DoTis reached or the medical DoT is cured. After thehalf lifeis reached the damage should be halfed untill the duration timer is reached. This would allow doctors more time to apply cures to party members preventing large amounts of poison damage and would allow CM's poisons to be more effective for a PvE group while big game hunting. It would also create a "need" for a cure if stim mind healing is introduced since damage is increased with every tick. If left unchecked it would be possible for the poison to cause a one tick incap even with constant healing to a poisoned player.
Under the above suggestion, poison resist gear,orinate creature resistscould be allowed to reduce the first tick of the poison thereby creating a possiblility of greatly reducing the overall damage that poisons will do over time.
I have seen very few that call for CM nerfs take ANY responsibility for PvP Tacticts. I am still amazed how many raids start with 10 people (Even your 1 CM who should know better) come charging my city all within 13m of one another. (Too many war movies where they rush the beachhead I guess.)
CM’s last only as long in PvP as their secondary skill mods. I.e. CM- TKA will last longer than a CM-Doc. Bad thing is our mind is just as venerable as most other players. I must first hunt your Riflemen and eye shooting BH’s b4 you find me. (Again 90% of the time you’re standing in the middle of your raiding party so I do get you all with an area attack, lol) Also I USE my mind throwing these attacks. I must then find your docs & Cm’s. BAM in the 8 seconds it took me to do that (My fasted ability to throw with a macro while I target) you’re on me 99% of time. LOL I’m dead..took one for the team I like to say. I am Mind Toast without Moun, Fishak, and breath of heaven. (If you’re not using foods…again tactics…learn it…live it..)
As a Master Doc I can I it cure every poison I have come across so far. I can cure about 3-4 people in a group before a disease ticks, and close to that with poisons. I’m pretty prepared for it 24-7 in game. I agree it’s hard to find a doc as we turned off out Master doc titles as we get 1 tell every 15 min from someone wanting buffs or the “Heal me Darn it I’m 4000m away come now I’ll tip you 100 cr” crowd. [tip your medical people we’d wear our tags more often I swear]
Frankly it’s difficult to pull informed fact from uniformed perception about the CM class in the forums. I still haven’t formed an opinion on what the proper balance is.
Second, there is SOOOO much that needs to be fixed and is being added. Seems 75% of those who call for Nerfs bring up the ranges greater than 64m Bug as an unfair advantage. YES IT IS IMHO an EXPLOIT, also an acknowledged bug!! Yet it’s a cry that rally’s those who either refuse to read the forums and scream nerf, or those that don’t understand the class and scream nerf. I can’t blame anyone for not pouring through pages of cries on both sides of the issue. There are fixes to many of the known bugs that are perceived as legitimate skills by those that don’t read the forums. There are items being added to reduce effects of poison and disease in the chef revamp. How many have actually read that?
I don’t feel we can go forward changing a class until these issues get either fixed or added. Sony Hurry up! We are all getting killed out here! That and we are all getting pissed off.
The CM is a healer and a combat team member. Unlike a combat Doctor (Yes many of us docs do PvP, and just for the XP on revive) the CM has the ability to support a fire team with healing AND use their main attack [I say main attack as most CM’s must keep artisan skills to gather resources to support their main attack] poisons or disease. They have the UNIQUE ability to choose what section of the HAM they attack.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
The ability to target specific HAM with poison or disease.
What offensive abilities?
I agree with the current offensive abilities
What defensive abilities?
I agree with the current Defensive abilities, BUT SCREAM for the Bug Fixes !
+64M poisons; bug needs to be fixed ASAP
X-Y axis throws bug needs to be fixed ASAP
Line of Sight FIX Please
Healing is for doc’s, I’ll keep you alive in a fight and contribute to it’s final outcome, but if you get so bleeping shot up, don’t expect me to be a doc as a CM. Fall back to the Doc, I’ll hold whatever it is off for a minute while you get healed.
What unique abilities?
Poison & Disease
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Area of affect poison and disease (I do think 20 Area meters of effect may be much, cause I still get a nice potency when I experiment it to that AOE. Granted I am a Master doc with high experimentation on the sub components)
How could/should they interact with other professions?
We depend on others for protection unless we’re CM with another skill tree that’s great as a stand alone. For master CM we should have to give up artisan and depend on others. I hate it but it makes me think twice about using a poison when it costs me about 880cr a throw. (I buy everything to make my meds)
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
No defensive mods. Unless linked to a secondary skill tree. (like it is now) I scream in PvP for my team mates to take out those that target me while I run like a girl healing myself. Darn it if I still don’t die from enemy fire, or losing my mind. [you'd be suprised how little mind I have after 2 poisons and a heal....one mindshot's worth for you riflemen]
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
We should own anyone stupid enough to charge in a group of 2 –200 all within 15m of one another, if they don’t shoot us first...Jk but man how manytimes to I have to hit you all in a group before ya learn to spread out?!
Doc Pepa