Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Publish 7 Feedback: Combat Changes
sk8ter_amc
Sun Mar 21, 2004 8:36 am
#170
8 pages now and you still haven't answered our fecking questions.
We play to pay this game. Without us, you'd all be living in cardboard boxes on the streets. You guys are really pissing off a lot of CUSTOMERS by not answering our concerns. HELL we are being completely ignored.
WE PAY YOU...now show us some friggen respect.
DEF CAPPING
ANSWER IT NOW
jerks.
Renown
Sun Mar 21, 2004 9:22 am
#171
Hmm.
I'm a Pistoleer 0/0/0/4, TKM, Commando 4/4/4/1 (going master).
My template is... rather lucky I went Master Pistoleer, and then got a holo for TKM, and then Commando.
I had 104 Melee Defense, plus 12 with my "full set" (rofl) of BE Melee enhanced clothing. I never wear armor, and Im an ex-master armorsmith. So, now I have 116 Melee defense.
I hate pvp and rarely ever did it (will never do it now).
I used to be very hard to kill in PVE. Pikets were nice easy money missions. I could tank Rancors with minimal problems. They could hardly hit me.
I went on vacation, missed the initial furor, and I get this crap.
(Flamethrower vs Pickets, they do 180-300 Damage on me *I have 650 H/A* and incap me in a moment.) Holy damn.
I hardly EVER got hit. Which substitute for no armor, and able to attack them with no buffs.
NOW I GET HIT EVERY SINGLE TIME! Using Flamethrower.
Hmm, Melee vs Ranged Weapons bonus? Creatures get it vs me? Ok. That I can accept, but what in the hell is the modifier, and why do they hit me every single time?
Vibroknuckle. Ugggh
Ok, a nerf for the TKM would be understandable. But there wasn't one. At least not in the publics eyes. Now I take on pickets with my VK, and they hit me... 1 out of every five times. (Used to be 1 out of every 15-20) I took out one piket, and then got incapped.
Do you want me to wear full composite? And get buffed? ONLY to take on pikets!
I used to be able to tank a force hunter, now I shudder to think of what a Mauler could do to me.
After dying (because the pikets aggroed me and i got my third incap) I came here.
I see... a lot of people with similar problems. I see something even worse, No response.
Christ, Acknowledge IT! Do something!
My mother always told me, bad language was a sign of a small vocabulary. Oh well. Ill manage on that.
But I wonder what the **edit** she would of said about NO language.... Hmm
I normally try and stay diplomatic and... all that sort of stuff, but this is way out of left field.
MY CHARACTER SUCKS.
Need I repeat it?
MY CHARACTER SUCKS.
I should not need to have buffs to take on pikets.
I should not need to have FULL COMPOSITE as a TKM/Commando to take on pikets.
I should not need to read the forums and see no responses.
I should not pay for this.
I will not pay for another subscription.
I will not play this game, any more, after my subscription is run out.
I will not tell any more of my clanmates from other games to play this.
I will not tell my friends about this game.
I will...
Be angry
Be upset
Be wondering why this is happening
Be waiting for a fix, NOT just a response, but a fix for something has gone horribly wrong.
Meanwhile. I will play my FPS's and my X-Box, and watch tv or read.
(The customer is always right)
STBFfounder
Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:54 am
#172
Well, my only concern with the new combat system is the heal delay that was secretly re-instated. In publish 6, it took about 2-3 seconds to use a heal when your combat queue was cleared, now it takes around 6-8 seconds to use any kind of stimpack. Even when you are not in combat, and are following those who are, it still takes 4-6 seconds to use a heal. So if you could make the heal delay a little bit shorter....those of us who get killed every time we go hunt a pack of worrts would appreciate it.
-Usso-
Master Medic/Master Marksman
Photii
Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:48 pm
#173
Well, my character is a TKM / Master Commando. She hasa +94 Melee Defense mod. If she has a flamethrower equipped (which is considered a rifle, but one whose ideal range is between 15m to point blank range), she is hit 90% of the time (And yes -- I tested this number thoroughly). This is what I would expect if my character had no melee defense.
So, big question: what magnitudeof to-hit bonus are we talking about? In effect, it must beapproaching +100 for heavy weapons or rifles. And if this is the case, why bother including melee defense mods in the ranged weapon trees if they will only benefit the character if they throw down their weapon and go melee? o_O That doesn't make much sense...
po Allya
Strel
Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:07 pm
#174
Carbineer weapons are still inferior, and actually shoot slower than rifles at master! 
Riflemen and Pistoleers are getting some fantastic weapons lately, unfortunately carbineers are being left in the dust.
vegasbabe
Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:46 am
#175
I have a guess as to why everyones defenses seem lower. My guess is that like dodge/block/counter melee and ranged defenses only pull from the current class of weapon you have equiped. When i am holding a pistol i dodge as i have 80 dodge, but when i go unarmed, i rarely if ever dodge, and i suspect that melee and ranged do not stack across classes. This may not have been intentional and that may not be the case.
Without a full explanation of changes it is difficult to tell whether the system is broken or not.
Please just indicat if this is the case as i suspect so paying customers are not wasting their time building useless skills for defenses.
Ithyalgia
Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:13 am
#176
are this thread even being read by csr's/dev/soe ??
or is this a waste of time ?
defences are obviously broken, armour decay is broken too... and you guys (dev's) are giving us the silent treatment...
makes one wonder why i'm paying to get this abuse...
i could get this abuse for free
SOE answer your player base and fix this problem
or is this a waste of time ?
defences are obviously broken, armour decay is broken too... and you guys (dev's) are giving us the silent treatment...
makes one wonder why i'm paying to get this abuse...
i could get this abuse for free
SOE answer your player base and fix this problem
Tenant
Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:00 am
#177
vegasbabe wrote:
I have a guess as to why everyones defenses seem lower. My guess is that like dodge/block/counter melee and ranged defenses only pull from the current class of weapon you have equiped. When i am holding a pistol i dodge as i have 80 dodge, but when i go unarmed, i rarely if ever dodge, and i suspect that melee and ranged do not stack across classes. This may not have been intentional and that may not be the case.
Secondaries only work when using a profession that has the skill as you say. Melee and Range Defense are possessed by all combat professions so all stacking of these should be in efect. If they intended in removing this and making individual skills(onehanded Melee Defense, Unarmed Melee defense etc) then not only would that required more work but surely that should have been explained...Unless they didn't want everyone to just add Master Doc or CM to their templates so made up some bull about capping it.
My own theory is that they have alreadystarted to implement a change in the Combat engine to enable it to deal with the higher numbers but what they have done has just made it trivialise the more reasonable Defense skills so as to be able to deal with the Higher ones.
My theory on why no one will respond here...pffff no idea. Either SOE are moving to their EQ style of Customer Service or they don't want to answer here until they are certain they have all the info. Hey, perhaps they just think absence makes the heart grow fonder and thetthey'll get a tearful welcome when someone finally comes in next...sorry, IF.
cos
Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:36 am
#178
-SMUGGLER-
The panic-shot change ruins playing smuggler for me.
It's really just the same as WarCry now.
Even with additional skills from pistoleer- now i could just as well give up all pistol skills and learn
the marksman tree of Carbineer and still be more usefull for my hunting group. Where is the fun in
dirty-fighting, first feignDeath now paniShot..
If you thought panic-shot was too powerfull, which i don't see, neither read any discussion about it in
the forums, there would have been countless ways to change it gradually:
- PS felt like it allways sticked when the shot hit, you could have changed that and give opponents
defense like on all other state changes- elite combat skill players much better ones than creatures/ NPCs
- PS still does okay damage (for someone with a pistol at least), could be changed to almost no damage
like warning shot
- Instead of breaking the delay on the first damage you could have first give delayed opponents the chance
to break it on each hit they take, or just re-roll based on the delay-defense skill suggested above
The original Panic Shot was a good way to make up for the Pistols low damage and big action cost from
shooting so much, to be really effective it had to be combined with low-blow, both challenging and fun
trying to delay and low-blow the right critter at the right time to save rifle group mates from close
combat and such. If you panic-shot at 3 guys and hit/delay only one you needed to decide if you panic shot
again or rather shoot to damage.. all those little things were fun.
It offered new, alternative and fun tactical possibilities in combat, especially in a hunting group. The
one really 'unique' combat ability of the smuggler is gone the way it is now.
-CARBINEER-
Got an apprentice Carbineer on other server, those changes look good, maybe dizzy is a bit too easy now,
not sure
-PISTOLEER-
I once decided to learn some Pistoleer skills to make my Smuggler more effective, i ended up with Master
Pistoleer because after every skillbox i felt like "nah thats not it so far..i still get my ass kicked so
bad". Pistoleer needs something worth the skill-points thats good about it except the minimal
accuracy/speed gain and Fan-Shot, all those specials need to be fixed, there are tons of suggestions in
the professions forum.
BlackEdge
Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:08 am
#179
garvin wrote:Bleed DoT Improvements: Targeted pool bleeds (/mindShot1 & 2, /healthShot1 & 2, etc) now hit their intended pool on the initial strike as well as the bleed damage.Were Flame DoTs suppose to be included in this change? There were not included, but some people feel they were suppose to. It seems pretty obvious that the change references Bleed DoT Improvements but I thought it couldn't hurt to have some sort of official response on whether or not Flame DoTs should be targeting an "intended pool"....Apparently the initial attack still targets random pools, but the tick targets the health pool according to some...
Actually if you test it with a pistol launcher (use healtshot 1), they haven't improved anything BLEED wise. Not sure what they IMPROVED it on, cause it's still the same for me.
BlackEdge
Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:17 am
#180
eakop wrote:Did a little testing, I am a master commando, master tka on the bria server.I figure ok, patch day...lets see what the combat changes did. I choose to do some quick gurk missions.Fairly simple...just run in whomp on the things get paid move on....wrong.I first attempt to use my flame thrower on a single gurk, no specials. I did not notice any difference on my hitting them.How ever I did notice that THEY HIT ME EVERY TIME for 151-201 pts of damage there by quickly incapping my sorry toon.Ok, I'm now a little wiser...and a little more beat up. I figure ok, enough play time. The next gurk runs up and I hit him with a flamesingle2, and of course it hits his action pool. (I come to a sudden realization that the flame dot is not a bleed dot unless it is used in the context of a nerf.). Now after using my special I of course realize that now, I cannot attack or heal myself during the next 7 seconds...where the gurk whom is on fire..but not bleeding very hard proceeds to incap me, since he hits me every single time. for 151-201pts of dmg.Ok, I'm now a little smarter. I unequip my beloved flame thrower, and decide I'll use my good ole VK's. Bingo...Mr. gurk gets his butt handed to him on a silver platter, and he bearly even hit me...and when he does it was at a max of 70pts of dmg. I can deal with that!Now I figure....I'll just have to try out the new acid rifle mods. Yep, shoots a little better...yep looks a little cooler...yep dmg works. But then again I get incapped because gurks feel the nature to run up and beat on the person who is shooting them....and dang it..they hit me every time.Somehow I figure that Melee Defense is somehow tied to the weapon that is equiped, and hope that other ranged people don't see the same problems as I have.--eakop--
I'm kind of glad about this, this kind of lowers the stacking. I'm almost master commando (4/0/4/3) and a Master TKA. I do notice I get hit, and hit hard. Which means that we don't get the melee mitigation from the TKA line, which is fine with me. The delay, the 7 second delay is more then likely your flamer, cause I have a 3.6 delay flamer, and takes me about 4-5 sec to re-flame flamesingle 2. Anyways, like I said I'm glad about this, depending on what you equip, then the defense depending on what you equip your weapon comes intact.
Remember, Commandos are suppose to be an all in your face profession, that can do enormouse dmg in a short period of time, there has to be some repurcussion or some disadvantage of being one, which is they have poor line of defense. If you want to get all the defense and the mitigation from a TKA, then switch to the TKA weapon. Getting to the point where you have to start thinking strategically and figure out what the best thing to do. In your situation as a commando on the gurk, you could easily just do a unarmed knockdown, then flamesingle2 them fast, and basically own them in one shot. That's what I do when I face mobs that have 9-10k of ham.
BlackEdge
Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:23 am
#181
Grr can't edit, but anyways now that I think of it, I have been using my stimpack a lot more lately then I use too as a TKA... hmmm
Aibar
Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:03 am
#182
BlackEdge Wrote:
Grr can't edit, but anyways now that I think of it, I have been using my stimpack a lot more lately then I use too as a TKA... hmmm
The amount of stim's i use has increased drastically i went through 2 stim b's each 31 uses just doing 5 missions on dantooine and was still incap quite a bit seemed like there was a delay on using a stim while in combat longer than usual.
I think the Dev's take weekends off i could be wrong just by looking at the Dev tracker there hasnt been a single post since friday.