Development Cycle Archive
Thread: ID#2: Two Changes to Bazaars and Vendors
DND_Cas wrote:
Eola, Elona and SD,
Thankyou for explaining what the issues are.
However I now want to turn it around on you. Lets assume that the proposal goes forward - what could be done to lessen the problems you have highlighted?
i.e. instead of going by number of items on a vendor perhaps the number would be limited by wieght or price or perhaps tailors would get more skills to compensate etc....
Well, if the cap goes in at 150, I'm not sure it can. I turn over too much stock daily, at a rate that actually only continues to expand via the Prell method (i.e. 'and they tell two friends, and so on, and so on). At a rigid limit fo 900 items if I use all my vendors? I'm not sure I could get over the wall, some items would have to drop off which would make it both easier and harder for me if you know what I mean.
The problem with going by weight or price and not # of items, is that if you're not very careful you'll be turning the knife around to jab into architects and resources dealers who deal in very high priced items and you'd make it tough on those the sell pre-sliced/Krayt weapons and armor.
I'd suggest that the solution is to give each Master Crafter class a skill mod that allows a specialized vendor. That vendor could hold an unlimited number of items but only of that type (Clothes, Weapons, Armor, Deeds,Pets what have you).
For the Business 3 -> Master Artisan line I'd allow one general purpose vendor, that could hold 500 in any general line, but only 100 in any specific line (i.e. can hold 500 stacks of resources, but only 100 guns, etc).
Master Merchant would have access to any of these types of vendors.
This would, I think make things more equitable make Masters better sellers, give an incentive to Master Craft/Merchant and account for the fact that different classes have different vendor demands and that even people in the same crafting class may have different needs/business models.
The distain i feel for this game is increasing every post i read by a Dev.
Both ideas are absolutely ridiculous. Of course every combat class wants to raise caps on bazaar and lower the item limit on vendors, why because it doesnt affect them in anyway.
All you are doing is trying to make it easier for new players to destroy the already offbalanced economy by basically undercutting most of us who have been here since day one and have MANAGED by some incredible miracle to survive and Thrive in business.
I dont have combat skills so should i start crying that master chefs should be able to solo rancors ?????? hrmm sounds ridiculous doesnt it.
We as crafters and business men and women have a place in this game and economy as it stands now (albiet highly flawed one ) but those are issues we can handle.
By doing this you will be basically telling us to go #$@% ourselves.
All you are doing is pushing out all who are dedicated to this game, their char, their proffession, and most of all THIER DEDICATION TO YOU SOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You would think that stood for something but alas it does not..
So keep catering to the needs of casual gamers and those who dont have stress in real life and dont care what happens to them as they just go out and kill knorts and are content with that.
Fair warning though if you do this as stated in the proposed changes make sure you take a look at your accounting database and see how much money you have lost as i would estimate over 2000+ people will cancel their accounts.
Oh and on a side note i got 10k credits on corbantis says the bazaar limit will go up to 6k and the vendor limit wiill be set to 750 at master merchant. (as a sign from SOE of a good faith we are listening to and understand you needs bull S pr release statement)
Not Happy
I would like to see the cap increaset to 6k on the Bazzar. It helps out a little bit on some of the stuff and especially on bidding.
The vendor cap is also good. I know I do not like to scroll through a long list to just see what I need. It will help in the long run.
Certainly it will, you won't have to bother scrolling with att the empty vendors out there.
Trebor0712 wrote:
The vendor cap is also good. I know I do not like to scroll through a long list to just see what I need. It will help in the long run.
Thunderheart wrote:
i dont know that your still reading all these negative responses, but hopefully youve gotten the gist that people really dont want a 150 cap
I do.
You may have missed it, but it's looking like there will be an incremental cap based on the merchant skill.
Ok, TH please explain how an incremental cap will accomplish the stated purposes of this change/nerf which where:
1. discourage monopolies
2. make it easier for some people who don't/won't use the "next page" tab to find what they are looking for.
I know many of us (including myself) believe the real reason is db related....but that is NOT what you brought to us. So it is not a valid resons because it is only a side effect NOT the main purpose of the proposed changes. Besides I've seen many better solutions to the bd issue on this thread than a vendor limit.
First, there are no monopolies to break up in the first place and if there where don't you think they would have a master merchant or two? Second, if people are having problems with the UI fix the UI!
I think this is an *excellent* idea! And giving *all* of those to Master Merchants is actually a quite valuable prize, and a good incentive to want that.
SueDenim wrote:
"I'd suggest that the solution is to give each Master Crafter class a skill mod that allows a specialized vendor. That vendor could hold an unlimited number of items but only of that type (Clothes, Weapons, Armor, Deeds, Pets what have you)."
I think this is an *excellent* idea! And giving *all* of those to Master Merchants is actually a quite valuable prize, and a good incentive to want that.
Thanks. The best ideas seem to come to me when all I really want is a nap.
Nyivvia wrote:
This is so utterly wrong.........
The distain i feel for this game is increasing every post i read by a Dev.
Both ideas are absolutely ridiculous. Of course every combat class wants to raise caps on bazaar and lower the item limit on vendors, why because it doesnt affect them in anyway. ......
I dont have combat skills so should i start crying that master chefs should be able to solo rancors ?????? hrmm sounds ridiculous doesnt it.
........
By doing this you will be basically telling us to go #$@% ourselves.
......
Not Happy
I've got a better way to apply the "vendor-merchant logic" to the fighter classes.
Quad leaders! They are designed to lead groups so......
grouping will be a squad leader skill so you will need to have novice squad L to form a group. And hey lets make the group limit incremental! So at novice you an have a group of 2..up to master with a group at the current group cap. After all a fighter fights not lead a group, that is what squad leaders do!
Sound nuts? That is what you want to do to crafters.Squad leaders should have other things to give them meaning and make them desirable. It is the same with merchant. You shouldn't severly handicap all the other crafters to "improve" merchant.
I think raising the price limits on the bazaar will only hurt the new player. I would bet most bazaar customers are new players trying to find a deal on an item they need. This will only hurt new players from being able to find cheap items to work their skills.
I run a vendor with over 2000 items on it. My vendor stocks the items no one else wants to sell because the prices don't makeit worth while. I run this vendor mainly as a service to my fellow players so they don't have to run all over trying to find these items. Sorting out these items is not really a problem if you use the sorting features. It would help if you would fix item categorizing. Wookie clothing does not even sort into that category. If you limit my vendor down to 150 items then I will be forced to no longer carry these items that sell for 100 cr or less. This will be a disservice to my customers that come looking for parts from Act 2 when it no longer will be spawning them or having a selection of clothing. How do you expect a tailor to stock just 150 items? Having multiple vendors already has it's advantages in that you can sell from multiple locations. You will force merchants to now use their extra vendors to just maintain one location.
CONSTRUCTIVE SUGGESTIONS:
(Im sure many have been said)
BAZAAR TERMINALS
-
Raise the bazaar cap: Inflation is a reality and this will make the bazaar more what it was intended to be. -
Lower the bazaar item limit: This is the best way to decrease the load on the database. -
Increase bothbazaar price cap and item limit for Merchants: Merchants should have distinct selling advantages over nonmerchants. Tie these to the efficiency tree in merchant. -
Get rid of auctions or tie them to Master Merchant: Auctions should not have price caps. Get rid of them, but let Master Merchants place unlimited price auctions. Got a unique item you want to sell? Find a Master Merchant. -
Improve category sort and add a sort function: They need to sort the entire category, not just the page displayed. A search function is a basic tool that has been needed since launch. -
Make bazaars available to player cities: Why this isn't true yet is a mystery to me, although im sure its related to the hastle of updating the database with new fields.
PLAYER VENDORS
-
Delete vendors where skill points no longer exist: This is a big reason the database is so crowded. If players drop their merchant skills they should not keep their merchant vendors. SImply tie this into the "Surrender Skill" feature. If you have too many vendors, you need to remove them before you can surrender the skill. Give grandfathered ex-merchants 2 weeks to empty their illegal vendors, then delete them. -
Tie item cap to efficiency tree: I know this is being considered. -
Allow cross vendor/bazaar listings: Perhaps let certain sales show up on regional bazaars. Tie this to Advertising 4 and charge a premium fee per item. -
Fix Advertising 3: Listings on the overhead map crash. This is annoying and devalues this skill.
Ohh... and fire/sue your database designer.
my 2 Cents:
First I have two accounts, one of which is a master merchant who runs an energy biz on Ahazi
Bazaar Limit - in my opinion- up it. Up it as high as you want. Its just a constraint on a free market anyway. Will it cause inflation, maybe in the short term, but supply and demand will level out the pricing anyway. Higher cap will create more competion, which in turn will lower prices.
Cap - You can get rid of this too. I for one am sick of wasting time traveling to merchants to find them empty or low on items. Reducing the number of items stocked increases the chance of traveling to find an empty vendor. If its a database issue, then set the cap to the level you can handle.
What is really bothering me about vendors is the time sink involved in purchasing items. I spend more time running errands in this game than i do running missions, pvp'ing or having fun. Please provide us with one central place to purchase goods. I have seen previous posts saying a centralized place like EQ would run the economy....spoken like a true crafter who is afraid that competition will cut into thier profit margin! When i decide to leave this game it will not be due to a nerf, lack of content, or any of they typical complaints....it will be do the HUGE amount of time that i need to invest running around.
One additional thought...what about adding a bazaar deliver system as an additional money sink. For example i can be in one city, viewing the bazaar of another, purchase the item as you can now, only let me pay an additional fee (a % of the sale perhaps) and have that item delivered to the vendor i am on. Heck let it take some amount of time based on the distance, the next day,whatever. I just want one stop shopping. This will increase competition, lower prices, and add an new way pull credits out of the economy all at once.
/end2centsrant
Aegyen/Aguy - Ahazi
Limiting the # of items in a vendor to 150 is too low. I can see putting a limit on it but how about 300?
I sell medicine on coronet - and I have a couple hundred items in my vendor each week that get sold out immediately. I can't keep it stocked. Making me go down the full merchant path to have more vendors is really putting a cramp into the way I want to play the game because I am Master Doc and would have to give up my ability to defend myself (with the already limited fighting skills I have).
Please reconsider the low vendor limit.