Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Great Expectations, Major Schedule Changes and making SWG the finest MMORPG ever
Terranah wrote:
I have two accounts and cancelled both a few months ago because it seems like they are not working on the issues that need to be addressed, namely combat rebalance and GCW. Also, I think the new high end content sucks. Make content we can all enjoy instead of the elite uber peeps.
At the last minute I decided to renew one account because I want to see what JTL has to offer. But if it sucks or I don't like it...then my last account gets cancelled and WOW or EQ2 will both be picking up an account from me.
It is very upsetting though that they are not working on the GCW and combat rebalance now. Too much time has past since launch for them to be still working on it. They need to get it done and if that means hiring more programmers then do it. That's what we pay monthly for isn't it. Or if we pay monthly for expansions then you should give them to us for free.
They should also concentrate on adding new things now and again...simple things just so everything isn't the same all the time.
That is the ONLY reason I'm still here. I pray for JTL daily that it can save the game..
MadShade wrote:
...Does coming here flaming the devs and flipping out like a ADD child that has skipped his meds help anything? Unlikely.
...
BlueCelt wrote:
Still think its the worst idea and is a continued trend in misinformation. Refrencing a different post here I'm gonna post what has been said about the combat rebalance.
EDIT# This is not a slam on TH or any CSR type. Not their fault.
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TH
12/8/03
There is content in the works, GCW stuff, the combat revamp...
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TH 12/23/03
I know a bunch of this is in development, but it really is . The combat system is being rebalanced and going forward, its important to get your critical issues to klawlegna so we can act on it. The big bottleneck is communication and after the holidays, a lot of this will be ironed out and smoother.
Instead of "fixing this" and "tweaking" that and ending up with a wobbly 4 legged table because so many number are over-tweaked, we are just revamping the system, but that takes longer.
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TH 12/23/03
The short answer is that these items will be taken care of in the weapons balance. Specials, weapon stratification and the like will all be accounted for
(what ever happened to the weapons balance????)
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TH 12/23/03
I could, but everything is getting revamped. Id be more interested in hearing what you folks have to say on how you WANT it to stack since we are doing the combat balance.
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TH 12/23/03
If its big, its coming in the revamp and the Combat Balance
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TH 1/16/04 (does this one sound familar)
We are going to be revamping PvP, but in the meantime, we have to make some killer fixes to keep what is in live now, fun.
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TH 1/23/04
The combat balance is near and dear to my heart as are all player issues. I just have to juggle time, manpower and scheduling as well. What I do is I keep track of all the issues, label them and sort them. That way when I go to Blair, JustG and Runesabre and say "players need this fixed", its based on how many players are being effected.
The combat balance alone is the single largest player issue. It encompases about 34% of the Correspondent issues and much of the pain combat players are having. Pikemen, carbineers, commando heavy weapons, the cost of specials, HAM costs, all of that will be better when the combat balance is done.
The thing to remember is that because the combat balance touches so many other systems in the game, its going to take a while. The team thats working on this is working very hard and thats the best I can offer.
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TH 2/6/04 (holy cow...the combat revamp is mentioned INFRONT of the jedi revamp)
2. For PvP and Base battle folks, your time is coming. Once we get past the Combat Balance and the Jedi Revamp, the PvP balance is scheduled. Its a multi-publish update (roughly planned atm) where will consider battlefield possibilities, PvP upgrades and so on.
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TH 1/28/04
There are lots of ideas for sure, but right now, the team is focused on the Combat balance, the GCW, the Jedi Revamp, Correspondent/CSR issues, the publish theme, getting the existing professions improved and the dungeons.
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TH 1/19/04 (HAM revamp...assuming this is combat revamp)
The HAM revamp will address all of that. It will repair everyone's specials, it will solve the slow downs in combat and many other things. The challenge is that its a core game system and its going to take a bit because people from many different teams have to be involved.
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TH 2/12/04 (ouch...when I first read this...I thought it might come back to haunt him)
One message that is load and clear is that the combat balance is very important and we all know it is. So that means we have to get the combat balance done and in and polished.
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TH 2/13/04
For the most part, the combat balance is just coding atm
and this
There is much more to the combat balance. The biggest change you will see is in the way the HAM works. It will have more of a regen effect rather than a "diminishing returns" kind of effect. On top of this, defense stacking, specials and all of the combat "components" will be tweaked for more fun and challenging play
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TH 1/21/04
No, the development for the combat balance is being done all along. The develpment time for things like this is longer than most players realize. The "In Concept" cycle for combat roles per se is so that if players have any really great ideas pertaining what defines a profession's combat role, it can be added.
Once the basic design is done and the combat balance moves to the In-Dev phase, things can be tweaked a bit, but no major additions can be included. I thought it was important to get players ideas on combat roles and the dev team agreed.
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TH 2/13/04
I pushed very hard for the combat balance and the team agreed so basically they did the crackdown stuff and then did as much of the Combat Balance as possible. The combat balance items that were selected because they effected creatures so much. The first part of the combat balance was balancing the creature table
AND
I'll be preparing some Combat Balance stuff for next week that will help everyone get on the same page for going forward
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TH 3/3/04
This is something Im checking to see if we can address in the weapon balance part of the larger combat balance, but I don't know what the answer might be. And in any event, concentrating on these minor things before the weapon balance isn't productive. We'll want to look at things when the combat balance is on TC
AND
Actually the game will be easier at the high end because the "invulnerable" templates will be fixed and all professions will be on a level playing field, but in any event, this is something we need to focus on after the HAM revamp goes to TC in Pub 8 and after the Combat Balance goes into effect (tentatively Pub 9 and holding...)
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TH 4/12/04 (time for another meeting???)
We did have a meeting today and I fought hard to get the combat balance put back on the plate. By my reckoning, it represents about 35-40% of the player issues. Would you say thats a wrong direction? I'm always open to ideas that speak to the most players at any given time.
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TH 3/2/04
As far as combat template stacking, this is all part of the combat balance. I mentioned early on that we'd be going through a painful period and this is it. Once the HAM revamp hits the system (keep your fingers cross, it should be in Publish 8) all of these changes will make more sense. It will change the way combat plays and the majority of the discussion points regarding combat will change. Many players are still seeing the way the system was or is, and not as it will be.
The core interaction of combat pools will still work the same, but the way it feels in combat will be different. Once it goes to TC, Im hoping to see all the combat experts get online and play it out so we can tweak it - - it will be a critical period. I know Im anxious to see it
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TH 4/13/04
Atteke wrote:
Thunderheart could you guys put the combat balance on Test Centre in it's current condition like you did with the new HAM system in January? just so we can take a look at it.
-Thanks
Not really. Not for now anyway. You see, if we put it on Test Center, we'd have to push it out in Publish 9 with the the way the process works. Once a clump of code is integrated, "its in there". Thats where the sanbox that we've been talking about comes into play. This sandbox would be like a second Test Center, but configured in a way where it would be insulated from the live code and we would be able to push different versions out much easier without interfering with current process.
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TH 4/19/04
Originally, the Combat Balance was delayed and I worked with the correspondents to get a list of "must haves" from the various profession communities. Since that time, I've have stressed the importance of the combat balance with the team and we are getting it back into the mix, though as you might guess, the schedule is pretty full. Because of logistics, its going to take a couple weeks of information gathering on the technical side before we have a plan to move forward on. We will see the CB soon though.
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TH 4/19/04
We're in the planning stages now. I want to help set expectations as best I can. At this early stage, I would make the following comments:
- The biggest change in the CB that will be a "sensation", and by that I mean something that players will
change them after the CB gets published.
5/04
29/04
What will change is the mechanical balance - - especially with the HAM revamp portion of the CB
We can also further tweak the Smuggler’s combat role in the combat balance
The combat balance will bring elements of both to a Swordsman’s specials with the lions share of focus on re-tweaking the current specials to be more effective
These are two very important melee considerations for the combat balance
1 Answer to rule them all…
In closing, one thing that is very important to keep in mind is realistic expectations.The reality is that there are a huge number of player questions and answers that hang on the combat balance.What I don’t want to see happen is that because many questions revolve around a tight group of answers that the scope of the work gets expectations set so high that they are impossible to meet.We all have high hopes for the combat balance and the certainty that the Combat Balance is very, very important.We are putting a strong focus on special training and hardware to give the effort a leg up and will make this as cool as possible, but I wouldn’t look on it as a magic bullet, but more as an exciting change in direction.
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TH 4/22/04 (OUCH OUCH)
Why is it going to take more than a year post-launch to make this happen?
It's not. We've been talking about things internally a lot. I've stressed the importance of these changes and everyone agrees. We've been going over the implementation details for a couple of weeks now so that we can get this back on track. JustG will be going into more detail in his next State of the Game letter which will be coming out in the next couple of days.
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TH 6/3/04
This is definitely a topic we can discuss further in our upcoming Combat Balance focus threads.
...and this is another great example of something the correspondents and I will want community input on during the testing while the CB sandbox is up.
This is an early answer and is subject to change, but one of our goals for Commandos in the Combat Balance is to change the way Heavy Weapon modifiers work
...but we wont know until the Combat Balance sandbox is live).
When the Combat Balance begins (which will be soon), the correspondents and some players will be brought on to a special Combat Balance server
Lightsabers have been balanced against the system after the combat balance
The most important component to this is to keep giving good, solid feedback to your correspondent so I can bring these opinions to the development team while the CB sandbox is live.
You can look forward to sweeping changes in terms of functionality, speed, etc.But again, I stress, we talk about this topic a great deal in a conceptual form.The rubber is going to meet the road when we bring the correspondents and other players onto the Combat Balance Sandbox server
Again, absolutely.These changes are the types of things we want to address in the Combat Balance
Squad Leader
What is the SL revamp timeframe?. It's still going take place after the combat rebalance, correct?
Its going to be released in the same publish
To answer your question though, this is something we can, and will, talk about during the Combat balance
Yes, Black Sun Razor Knucklers will be back in the game after the combat balance
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TH 6/14/04
Waste93 wrote:
How about some info on the combat revamp. There are lots of rumors floating around on this one. And since the answer to just about every question the combat professions ask is "wait for the rebalance" it would be helpful.
Once we get through the Jedi Revamp, I'll be posting lots of thread. We'll have a lot of focus threads and the like and after P9, I'll start making the weekly roundtable have a CB focus to cover specific issues.
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TH 6/10/04
Weaponsmith
Are stun weapons going to see a major rebalance within the future?
Yes. Stun weapons (particularly stun batons) were never intended to be "the weapon" that everyone wants because it is the most effective. SWG’s weapons were always supposed to have a variety of useful and efficient weapons available, but here again, with all the tweaks and changes over the last 8+ months have caused a series of imbalances. This is definitely something that will be looked at during the combat balance.
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TH 7/15/04: I will be immediately working with the correspondents and the community to develop a list of pre-combat balance fixes
Gary Gattis's State of the Game Letter (around pub 8!): We are cranking on the Combat Balance, and we think development on it will span 2 more publishes.
So...which is it? Were we lied too? mislead? or ???
Message Edited by BlueCelt on 07-16-2004 07:26 PM
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I don't beleive the devs, or TH... they'll tell you what they want to happen.... not what's going to happen. Then after they tell you somthing.... things change. Therefore, I don't "invest" anything in what they say, and I sure don't "invest" very much into the game. I play the game to have fun.... when I stop having fun, I stop playing. Sorry, I'm not as neurotic as some people.
My major intrest in MMO's is PvP, so your assumption that I don't want the CB before JTL is wrong. I have a crafting toon on one server that I don't play any more and I've done a bunch of the quests and explored the game..... none of it intrested me much. My main toon is on Bloodfin, so I see combat often. Does it work? Yes. Is most aspects of combat fun for me compared to other games? Nope. I would love for pvp to be patched. Is it going to happen soon? No. Are the people that are canceling accounts going to ruin SOE and bankrupt them? *sigh* nope.
Sorry in my opinion its worse for a company to let players rant and rave on a company run forum then it is to censor anything bad thats said. If you haven't played other MMO's that's what those companies do, sorry to let you know. EVERY MMO I've played have had players complaining about all kinds of aspects of the game, and they NEVER stop complaining. When I left this game there were just as many complaints as there are now, and in the same form.
SWG was originally going to bemuch more focused on pvp when they first started developing this game. There were huge arguements on the forums about how much pvp should be in this game and the pacifists won out. If this game had a pvp focus there would be no avoiding pvp,if you chose to fight in the war.... you would have to fight in the war.
I make no apologies for SOE, they make thier own.
Metherian you seem to think you're quite intelligent and yet you've admitted you've been gulled by SOE's lies for over a year now. Everyone's perception is a skewed reflection of reality. I've just as much a right to come here and say **edit** as you do to come here and complain. I've already stated that there are plenty of constructive posts here, but do I have to repost all of the idiotic spam that makes up a majority of both of these threads? Obviously you've made some assumtions as you read my post and therefore responded as you did. My point: If you are unhappy with the game- quit. Posting here saying "I am unhappy with the game and I am canceling my account." -- Unnecessary. You just.... cancel your account. Now if you want to post why you're unhappy with the game.... fine.
Oh and a couple of amusing points, Meth.
I quit the game (ie took action) last year when I saw the game wasn't going my way. You listened to SOE propaganda and let them do whatever the hell they wanted. How can you say I'm the type of person that would enable the Third Reich come into power? LMAO.... I'm narrow minded and have tunnel vision.
Another point.
""That said, however, there are many of us who do a tremendous amount of software development work and business management, and as such, canunderstand a certain measure of fact in regard to the overall process."" -- Seems like you're doing fairly well for yourself.... good for you.
""Again, you apparently have no long-standing interest in this game, or your parents pay for your subscription fees, and thus you don't feel 'robbed'. Good for you; you got lucky. Unfortunately, there are many of us who don't have that luxury."" -- Wait a sec.... I thought you were doing a tremendous amount of software development.... that pays so little that you can't throw away $15 a month for a game? That's a months worth of entertainment. How many accounts do you pay for that its an economic burden to play SWG?
Heil Hitler! *laughs* So I'm a Nazi, a sophist and an apologist because I don't join in the frenzy of hysterics and complaints? I love you too Metherian.
I have read a ton of reviews from major magazines like EGM, Computer Caming World, GamePro, etc; gone over reviews from major internet sites on the game and even watched the X-Play (TechTV) review. The one thing I have found in common to just about every review I read was they considered the game boring. I play other mmorpgs and a mmofps and in those games SWG when ever brought up gets torn apart, Its rare for anyone to find much good to say about the game and I couldn't even give a close number to how many times I have heard people say, " I canceled my SWG account and never plan on going back". The reason I mention all this is mainly because these things are what help people to decide whether or not they are goin to pay for a game. Im sure marketing plays a role but i believe these factors have a larger influence including the simple word of mouth(players telling other players).
Its clear that SOE/LUCASARTS wants JTL to ship in October because this is the start of the holiday shopping season. But the problem i see that is more important then making the holiday sales is having a buyer base. With what has been expressed on these two threads about your announcement your losing alot of customers that wont come back and others who refuse to buy an expansion for a core game in which "The combat balance alone is the single largest player issue"-posted by TH on 1/23/04- that is now even being delayed further. Also with even non-SWG players getting negative feedback, from what was mentioned in the above paragraph, how many copies of JTL does SOE/LUCASARTS expect to sale. Yes SWG is offering a free trial period to try to lure more people into the game and I even noticed today that the price of SWG had dropped at Target (not sure if this was SOE/LUCASARTS decision or if Target just wanted them off their shelves). Is this enough for JTL to have a strong enough release to justify the losses. JTL is only an expansion that still requires the SWG core. I am no marketing genius, by far, butI amsure if SWG coregame had a more of a positive feedback with players and reviewers that JTLwillhave astronger initial sales regardless if its released holiday season or not.
I am very concerned over the number of people claiming to cancel their accounts, with players not feeling good about a core game and with a few huge titles in the near future how many of the current community are goin to migrate to these new titles w/o looking back regardless of how well JTL does or not. I would suggest one of two things to keep this from happening:
1) Pull all the devs now from JTL and have all efforts put toward Combat Balance, then split the teams again to finish the jedi quest and JTL which may only be delayed a few months (less if its true that the CB has already been worked on).
With out the combat balance pub 10 is only goin to add a greater number of jedi's to the game, which is a huge mistake with combat being out of balanced already. Plus I personally can't understand what the logic is to adding force sensitvity skills to an imbalnce system, all this will end up doing is throw the whole system further out of balance frustrating even more players toadd to the already too numerouscanceled accounts.
2) Drop monthly charges and/or add SWG to SOE's All Access Pass.
I'm not saying do this permanetly just long enough to keep the accounts active till JTL and the Combat Balancehave both been implemented. There arealot of cancelled accountsdue toplayers feeling that they are paying full price for a game that feels like its in a state of beta testing where their money could be going toward something else. An added benifit from the All Access Pass is that players already paying for games such as EQ or even Planetside may figure for the small additional cost to try out SWG and to do this they will have to pay for the core game(which makes money vs. free trials). Yes the idea of dropping the monthly rate or adding the game to the All Access pass means there will be lessrevenue coming in from SWG but isnt the same happening with cancelled accounts anyways. Atleast with active accounts SOE/LUCASARTS still has a chance tomake right bythe players, where as cancelled accounts your not always going to get that second chance. In the long run the more accounts you can keep active now the better the chances are for SWG/JTL to be the best MMORPG in the future.
As consumers, in which we all are including the staff of SWG/SOE/LUCASARTS, faith in a company is crucial to future purchases. With out it most consumers are hard pressed to continue to spend thier hard earned money toward products from that company. If a car ,for instance, was purchased and the manufacturer admitted for a year there was a problem with out fixing the problem wouldn't you as the consumer look to invoke the lemon lawto getyour money back and to replace the product with something else(most likely from anothercompany who you now have more faith in).
I truly hope that this post is looked at and thought about carefully. As of right now the only thing that keeps this game going is the STAR WARS name but SOE/LUCASARTS needs to realize that not all Star Wars Fanatics are gamers and not all gamers are Star Wars Fanatics. I'm sure there are manyplayers feeling that they have been fed incorrect info purposely or have had tactics usedsuch as the veteran reward(which wasmentioned inMays newsletter)to stretch out accounts. This willlose alot of faith in SOE/LUCASARTS. This is all about a game, players play games to enjoy and unless they are doing that they will move on.
ShadowViper
Been playing as of July 2003
I am sorry to have to repost this but it is clear that the majority of the people viewing this thread are skipping to th last page.
Please for the love of god bump back the second part of the jedi revamp and get the balance out prior to JTL.