Development Cycle Archive
Thread: ID#2: Two Changes to Bazaars and Vendors
Thunderheart wrote:
i dont know that your still reading all these negative responses, but hopefully youve gotten the gist that people really dont want a 150 cap
I do.
You may have missed it, but it's looking like there will be an incremental cap based on the merchant skill.
No No No No and No! The people who want incremental caps are the ones who either don't craft and have no clue what they are talking about or are pure merchants who do nothing besides sit in their shops and stare at the walls dreaming up ways they don't have to compete with anyone.
By adding the incremental cap any crafter who actually wants to sell anything will be forced to spend a lot of skill points in another profession (maybe even master it). Then there will be almost no points left to use in any other profession. No combat, no medic, no entertainer, no anything. Some of us elite crafters would actually like to go out and socialize in groups and see the rest of the game. But to do that you need a combat profession. So by capping the vendors you are sending the message that we crafters are nothing more than glorified NPC's and should sit in out shops because the rest of the game is not for us.
DND_Cas wrote:
Firstly Chill a bit - essentially we are agreeing on the issues here and actually the fix for them. I think this thread has more of an impact on those who are not master merchants like yourself. Btw I'm also totally with you on the vendors/dropped skillsthing that needs to be fixed.
Let me ask you a question tho. Why should crafters sell thier own wares? Why can't they sell them to merchants who then sell them to customers?
I'm actually quite Frosty.
The reason crafters should be able to sell their wares is manyfold:
1) There is a BUSINESS line in artisan, what is the point of that line if not the selling of your wares.
Eola wrote:
DND_Cas wrote:
Firstly Chill a bit - essentially we are agreeing on the issues here and actually the fix for them. I think this thread has more of an impact on those who are not master merchants like yourself. Btw I'm also totally with you on the vendors/dropped skillsthing that needs to be fixed.
Let me ask you a question tho. Why should crafters sell thier own wares? Why can't they sell them to merchants who then sell them to customers?
I'm actually quite Frosty.
The reason crafters should be able to sell their wares is manyfold:
1) There is a BUSINESS line in artisan, what is the point of that line if not the selling of your wares.
Lol - henceforth I shall call you mr frosty 
Imo its mean't for small time goods selling notretail shop selling otherwise there would be no point in having multiple vendors in the merchant line. Think ofthe bussiness line in Artisanas a greengrocers as oppossed to the management line in Merchant which is more like a supermarket(Mall).
Cowpewter wrote:
The bazaar cap: I can see arguements both for and against this one. As others have stated, I think it would work much better if the higher prices were accessible by Merchant skill level.
That makes SENSE. Make being a merchant MEAN something to those that choose to take that tree. I'd have no problem with that idea. Combine this one with the one below and people may actually see a point to taking up merchant?
Cowpewter wrote:
I also agree that much of the problem here would be solved if dropping your Merchant skills deleted any vendors you were no longer qualified to own. If I am a rifleman, and acquire a T21, then sell back all my rifle skills to Novice Marksman, I cannot use that rifle.
Again, that makes SENSE. This problem could be solved by simply getting rid of the ability to keep a vendor after dropping thecorressponding (sp?)skill level. No other skill tree allows you to learn the skills then drop the level and keep them, why the heck has this been allowed??
Cowpewter wrote:
And speaking as both a merchant and a customer, having empty vendors disappear off the world map would be wonderful. Nothing is more frustrating than a 10 speeder ride (or god forbid, on foot) halfway across the planet, just to find an empty vendor.
Again...SENSE. Why not add something to vendors that would cause them to disappear should their inventory fall to zero? Not like they can't be replaced if it was a matter of someone being away and unable to stock or something. It also would reduce the number of vendors listed on the world map that are not even active, and enable customers to more effectively find STOCKED vendors in the category they are looking for.
I really hope the devs are actually reading all this and this isn't just a token thread to pat us on the heads and make us think we had a say in something. There's some really good ideas here that could be a much fairer solution. I may have quoted one person, but many have presented the same ideas over and over again. There are other solutions to this problem such at the three above, fixing the trees in the bazaar/vendors to make them make SENSE, etc.
Btw, dunno if this was bought up yet by anyone else, but one of the "reasons" for the caps on vendors was that "most players don't "drill down" through all of the vendor pages to find items". Uhhhmmm.....players don't have to "drill down" through all the categories/pages on the bazaar to find items??
Again, with all due respect that reason is a crock of you-know-what. Matter of fact it's almost insulting that Sony seems to think most players are too stupid to figure out how to use the filters.
*IF* you believe that Crafter != Retailer that's fine... But right now there is no good way for dedicated retailers and dedicated crafters to work together in an acceptable fashion.
*If* they increased the number of vendors a Retailer could place and allowed the Retailer to add "admins" to the vendor so other people could place items for sale on them that idea might be tolerable. That would encourge more "Malls" with a Retailer or two running the vendors (and maybe Retailers could charge a "tax" on the sale of items?).
A 150 item limit on vendors is just insane though. Even if it goes up with Merchant skill. At a minimum it should be at least 250 or 500 items.
I would beFOR increasing the sale price on bazaar items to 10k IF they fix the interface to that thing, it's so horribly clumsy trying to deal with anything where more than a few 100 items are for sale.
Eola wrote:
I'm actually quite Frosty.
3) Merchants should have many strengths, (more vendors, cheaper maint, advertising, etc) they shouldn't be the only gate to commerce.
(sorry for mangled postings, vegged at the keyboard)
Think there's some misunderstanding going on here.
I never said they artisans should not be abletosell thier own goods. But I don't think a 150 (or whatever) item limit on smalltime vendors (i.e. non merchants) is a bad thing.
DND_Cas wrote:
Eola wrote:
DND_Cas wrote:
Let me ask you a question tho. Why should crafters sell thier own wares? Why can't they sell them to merchants who then sell them to customers?
Show me any merchant who wants to, and/or has the ability and knowledge of tailored clothing, to be a "tailor's merchant."
The design of the tailoring profession makes it exceedingly difficult, if not impossible, to do this.
Database :
When we make a factory run of 1000 items it would be good to have only one crate at the end of the process.
Let us place this whole crate with a price per item in a vendor. A customer choose the amout and retreive a new small crate of the desired amout, and not spare items.
The same would be interesting for resources too.
Let us stockpile resources. Set a price per unit and a customer could buy any amount he needs.
Create a new warehouse structure where we can combine crates with uncaped amout. (Yes I hear you my fellow architects, you will love this one
)Armorsmith issue:
Let the players buy a "blank" armor and have the choice to colorize it once for all. (We all love the temporary feature of coloring our armor)
Merchant :
Let bazaar item and price cap raise with merchant skills.
Let remove the auction cap form mechants, or level it with merchant skills.(Actually auction system is worthless)
Or maybe move premium sale system to uncapped auction
Let merchant be able to transfer merchants to others players but maintenance fees should be twice.
If you don't like this idea at least make an automated transfer system for creds and sales email. So merchants can still rent their merchant and make them really usefull for the right user.
Baazar :
Filter and research option would be wonderfull to have.
Bazaar Cap - Raise it slightly:
It doesn't bother me in the slightest if you raise it to 6k or 10k, as I'll quite happily get rid of my single vendor and free up the business skill points.
However, if you want crafters to use the vendors they have invested points in, I'd suggest a slight raise, perhaps to 4k which would enable people to raise piles of 1000 resources to 4cpu.
Vendor item limit:
Either make master merchants 'immune' to this, or scrap the idea. I know at least one master merchant who will be dropping master like a hot potato if this is implemented. As it is, juggling goods between multiple vendors is a nightmare, this would simply exacerbate the problem. Give master merchants the tools to do their job and make them more useful, whilst limiting merchant dabblers (like myself).
Quote:
An item limit is going to be placed on vendors and that limit is intended to be placed on 150.
Nice. Will our comments actually mean anything anyway?
-Jherad
tsuya wrote:
Just to add a quick P.S. to my post. I'm an ex-everquest player, and what the bazaar did to the EQ economy is a perfect example of why it should not be done in this game. It totally ruined the economy and drove prices ridiculously low, causing tradeskillers to no longer even be able to make a profit on their crafted items. Price wars will be the inevitable result of these sort of changes, and with no way to control them they will ruin the game for tradeskillers.
Ok lets go through the professions
Chef - Highly doubtful as who wants to just buy singles? Crates of BoH or Fishak will never go to 6k.
DE - Not exactly sure here, but you would be talking about a 70-80% drop in most prices. Most people that are still in DE are there because they like the profession and not to make a buck.
Weaponsmith - Maybe here, but this is completely up to the player. Someone can only list 25 items on the bazaar. Most weaponsmiths stock 200+ items on a vendor. Maybe people still buy 2-4 weapons at a time because of slicing.
Armorsmith - No way. Composite costs more than that to just buy the wooly hides for it. Adv ubese maybe, but most armorsmiths sell out fast enough that the 25 item cap would be a complete annoyance.
Doctor - doubtful as everyone prefers crates of their products
BE - Same thing as doc.
Tailor - Again maybe here as well, but which tailor shop do you know of that only sells 25 items.
Archs - I won't go here, as anything they make is as low as even any hologrinder will sell for.
The fact that 6k doesn't really buy much except for maybe a weapon or some cloths makes the bazaar unfeasable for all items. Price wars might happen, but they can happen right now. You are inferring that 75%+ drops in price will occur on some things. People could do that right now and advertise on the forums. If it is of decent quality they would be sold out very quickly even if it was a 10 minute walk to the shop.
The 25 item limit makes any merchant that sells those low items either restock the bazaar all the time or not really use it.
SueDenim wrote:
Show me any merchant who wants to, and/or has the ability and knowledge of tailored clothing, to be a "tailor's merchant."
The design of the tailoring profession makes it exceedingly difficult, if not impossible, to do this.
Show me how a non-human vendor is any better than a person with no tailoring knowledge. Do you stand by your vendor every moment of everyday helping your customers pick the correct clothing for them?
Your clothes still bear your makers mark so they know you made them and they can still mail you for customisationsand, of course,you can also keep a more select stock on your personal vendor (albiet now with a limit).
Perhaps I'm just not getting why it is different for tailors.....I know you get more customisation requests than any other proffesion but I'm just not sure why this is going to destroy the profession.
Raising the cap on the bazaar. good idea
Limiting how much one can hold on their vendor. BAD BAD idea.
I am a droid engineer. And from the sounds of it I sometimes think I'm one of the few sucessful ones. I do not sell any droids in crates other than probe droids and seekers. And implimenting this change will kill my business. On my vendors on Gorath I typically stock about 100 probots, 100 advanced probots with varying mods added, 200 of both seekers and probes, and 50 of various mods of repair, surgical, and astromech droids and I CANT KEEP UP! PERIOD. I am a master merchant and I used my multiple merchants to diversify and spread my business to other planets at other merchants locations. If a change like this occurs my business is ruined. I will be having to restock something on my vendor so often I might as well ditch it and start holo grinding. Some of us really USE the merchant skill, and a change like this is completely unfair to us. It's already bad enough now that we've lost the ability to hexacode out wares and is now a million times harder to sort and order all this. And I can definately say this too. PEOPLE DO CLICK NEXT PAGE! If they didn't I'd never sell an R2 unit.