Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-11: Combat Roles; Ranger
hmmm, maybe some of those different arrows could be designed to kill in one hit or kill quickly, but have a long reload time. Sneaking up on base and shooting a poison arrow into the commander anyone?
Quanzik wrote:
i always felt rangers should have a hunting rifle or somehting made for them. currently my Hunt Master master ranger is only certified for using cdef weapons. some have suggested a hunting bow which would be nice cuz could allow for different damage types thru arrow heads varrying.
it doesnt have to be soemthing to over power em in pvp situations in which case but be able to help the resource gatherer and pve. and maybe have an increased creature to hit bonus and damage bonus when using the weapon to further enhance it not being overpwoering in the pvp situation however helpful in pve groups.
i like having my skills the way they are and dont see why i should need to have to skill up in a profession that isnt a preq to use one of my main and most valuable lines that identifies the class -Hunting-
Vakeso
Master Ranger
There has been discussion and debate for months about ranger specific weapons and attacks. Here are some potential implementations, and the pros and cons to each.
Ranger-only weapon: This would be a weapon with a cert granted somewhere in the ranger profession, depending on its strength. It would have large bonuses against creatures, and rangers would get various bonuses for its use a la other weapon classes. It would either be usable only against creatures, or would suffer severe penalties when used against NPCs or player characters.
- Pros: Not dependant on any other weapon class. A ranger wouldn't need siklls from another profession.
- Cons: This would be harder to implement. New art would be required, and many balancing issues would come into play. A new exp type might need to be added, along with new mods and special attacks.
Ranger special attacks: These would be attacks designed for use against creatures. Like the weapon, they would have no use or limited use against players and NPCs. They would provide bonuses based on the stats of the weapon the ranger is using, and would be a bonus in PvE creature combat.
- Pros: Easier to implement. This would be a much simpler system, and would probably be easier to balance as well.
- Cons: This would require that the ranger take up a second combat profession. While currently a ranger does need an elite combat profession to supplement ranger skills,this shouldn't be so. A ranger should be able to hold his or her own without needing to also be an elite marksman or brawler profession.
Tonteth wrote:
What should the SWG ranger be? The EQ shaman, the debuffer.
Like most posts, this may go unanswered/unheard by the devs. But, I think the main thing that the ranger profession lacks is an ability that puts them above the rest of the professions in the wilderness. The camps as good as they are are mediocre. I can use the basic camp kit for the same use that the field base provides. I think these are some things that would be useful.
Camps:
Give the high level camps the ability to repel creatures. Give the camps "stun turrets" that actually shoot aggressives though not hurting but making them scamper away. Seeing that the field base is a "field base" why would this be out of the ranger area? leave the tarp, tent and concrete pillar idea behind and give us something more worthwile than good looks and a minor heal bonus.
Abilities:
I think rangers need special attacks that augment their weapon skills. Rangers need to learn maybe "Rifle:Weak spot" , this skill, learned at master ranger would provide the ranger with theweak spot rifle skill.Weak spot would blend the ranger's creature knowledge of weak spots and the player's rifle skill to output this new shot that might do outstanding damage depending on the rifle trees and rifle skill. These skills could be such as:
Pistol: weak spot
Rifle: weak spot
Carbine: weak spot
Melee : Pressure points.
I think this complimenting skill idea would be excellent. Give the ranger a special creature only KD too.
Traps: We need worthwile traps.
Wayfaring: The master ranger should have the ability to have a vanishing tirkc to escape from a mob of humanoids.
If the master ranger is stuck in a tight spot and lots of thugs shooting at him, or tuskens or being mobbed by animals. He should have an ability to quickly vanish and get out. The trick would totally zap his mind and action bars but he would be garunteed a "peace" and a conceal from all creatures and humanoid npcs attacking him and those within 100m.
I dont see why this shouldn't work in PvP too.
if we have tracking : players and people why shouldnt we be able to mask from them?
In both situations the Vanishing trick would phisically change his appearance(into full on camo)to match the flora and environment of the current planet.
Rifle: Weak spot
Rangers need more harvesting bonuses at least 300% more
Rangers need to get more bonuses to damage creatures and pets at least 200% more than what we currently have.
Rangers should recieve more defenses from creatures and pets attacks
Rangers should be able to become invisable to other players radar with a mask scent type of skill
Rangers should recieve aim bonuses
Rangers traps should work against players and npc's
Nerj wrote:
What defines theRanger role in combat?
Current: Nothing - traps that don't work, camps that tie us down and disband in combat. Terrain and crawl speeds that are worthless since vehicles.
Proposed: Kill animals faster, Camps that repel.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Current: Whatever weapon skills we have outside of Ranger
Proposed: Traps and stealth
What offensive abilities?
Current: NONE
Proposed: Kill animals faster, Camps that repel, and they abillty to see concealed players
What defensive abilities?
Current: NONE - Camps are suppose to repel MOBS. However, these don't work. Conceal is worthless, and with proposed changes to NOT work against NPC and players, even more so.
Proposed: Conceal against players and NPC
What unique abilities?
Current: Harvesting - No advantage to MASTER scout (1 or 2 unit diff - makes no diff)
Proposed: Things which won't be implememted, conceal against NPCs and players
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Current: Nothing (60% reduction in harvest no matter what)
Proposed: Increase the harvest for Ranger lead squads.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Current: WE sell them stuff
Proposed: WE sell them stuff.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Current: NONE - throwing SCOUT level traps (which work at same level as scout)
Proposed: Better traps, AOE traps that work
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Current: NONE - no skills to work against creatures, players, and NPS
Proposed: We are animal killers, what skills could we posiblly have against players ands NPCs? Camo?
RESULT: Since, the major thrust of of questions is to beef up the GCW (aka: NPC and player interaction) we have no skills nor will we acquire skills to this end because of greifing.
Purposal: Removal of RANGER profession. Put beter traps at SCOUT level. Make SQUAD LEADER based off of Master Scout. Move tracking to Bounty Hunter. Give camps and rescue feature to Squad Leader. Increase harvesting levels when grouped with Squad Leader. Rename MASTERSCOUT to RANGER.
In addition, removal of Ranger profession will open room for Droid Handler Prof.
Sorry, but I still have not seen any other proposal that REALLY defines a RANGER as other that a glorified scout. Without the abillity to use the enviroment to our advantage(invisible to the naked eye) or to see the HIDDEN enemy, we are useless. Running and Crawling around in the wilderness has been made obsolete.
Without a usefull, MAJOR revamp (talk to GREEN MARINE for good ideas) the profession is weak and useless.
P.S. : from Ranger forum Ranger correspondent feedback ( http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=ranger&message.id=5725)
1. We aren't unique.
"Rangers have very little that differentiates them from scouts. Once Master Scout is reached, Ranger is essentially more of the exact same thing."
One of the things that has caused me a great deal of frustration as a Master Scout/Ranger is the lack of differentiation in the wilderness. All other character classes seem to function just fine in the wild with no support system. In reality, plop a Master Chef in the wild with no Scout/Ranger skills he will die within a couple of days.
Yes, you can talk about combat differentiation all you want, but our function as rangers is or should be wilderness focused. If all the other characters in the game can function as well as we can in the wild, then Ranger/Scout is a completely useless skill tree.
I like a lot of the suggestions in Nrass' write up on the Outdoorsman, especially the things that relate to gathering organic resources, tracking, and hiding. If you want a good model to look at, look at the "mountain man" of the North American west. Totally self sufficient in the wild. Able to find his way anywhere. Able to trap and track anything in his environment. Able to take advantage of creatures natural tendencies to herd them and harvest from them the things that are best about the creature.
One of my big complaints about Scouts/Rangers is that we have to /examine and pick a resource to harvest just like everyone else. Rangers should have the ability to /harvestbest as well as the normal options. The harvesting numbers should be far higher and rangers should be able to harvest 2 or 3 resources at once. Rangers should also have the ability to /harvestspecial. Special harvest would be items (drops if you will) that are peculiar to a creature that give other professions that use organics (Chefs, BEs, Tailors, etc.) special adds to their products.
Combat is great and Scouts/Rangers can take part, but the combat skills are taken care of in Marksman, Brawler and Rangers can take those skills to enhance their capabilities in combat, but what about enhancing other professions? Ranger/Chef? Ranger/BE? Ranger/Tailor?
Tracking is another sore point. I should be able to Track just like I Survey. I should be able to pick an animal out of a list or from the main tracking results window and track (/trackfollow) that animal. Tracking at this point is no more than reading signs. It needs to involve, in the game mechanic, a way to actually track a type of animal. We should be organic resource gatherers. If we can't find specific animals to harvest from, what use is tracking? Mission terminals kill the Ranger's ability to bring a different and important role to the game. How about a Ranger terminal? I know, ridiculous. Just track things right? Well, you know, with mission terminals, traps that don't get any better, camps that don't work, and poor differentiation from other professions, the Ranger is a quick deletion from the skill point pool.
i aggre with the idea trap other players, but you must be Master Ranger to get this Ability (like Tracking, first Animals,Then NPCs, then Players)
Concealment vs Players should be possible (sure only as Master) we get then the Tactical-Camo-Kits they needs more Ressources you are Stealth up to 64m if you run and 32m to a player if you Walk and you leave stealth-mode if you attack. You can't change weapon they is colerd now too, and Heavy Weapons are usless for Concealment.