Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Schematics limited to 100
I don't mind runs of 100 for final products so much, but as has been stated many many times here, we need more than 100 identical subcomponents available to us because of the call for multiple identical ones in some of our schematics. Limiting these to runs of 100 won't solve any DB issues, it just means we crafters will have to own more factories and make multiple runs to come up with what we need. We're not making MORE than what we need currently - every crafter I know is hurting for storage space, so there's no point in making things that are just going to sit around. We are actually using this kind of volume. I don't always produce the full 1000 items I make my schematics for, but I sure do need more than 100.
I've got a great solution for you that will relieve your database issues and make crafters happier all in one fell swoop. Limit final products to runs of 100 if you must, but identify products used as subcomponents in other recipes. Then make the limit on these 1000 units per schematic, ANDmake them all fit into acrate of 1000 items. These aren't usable anywhere but in other recipes, so it's not like someone will gain an unfair advantage carrying a thousand of them into battle. All it would do is reduce the amount of crap artisans send into the world, which is a good thing. 
"Database Issues"... what exactly does this mean? Please, explain this to us.. those 2 little words dont do much..
I also join the argument to leave the cap at 1000, or even increase it.
If I have 6000 dant berries, and 6000 talus water vapor... I will, at some point, have 1000 Adv Liquid Suspensions. So, you just want to make it more tedious for me to do so? Why? For the database? You will STILL have 1000 liquid suspensions on your database! I just gotta make 10 schematics to do it... Dont those 10 schematics take up space on your database?
The above reasons are all valid, so they do not have to be restated--that we docs could not make a crate of 50 of Stim E's, Enhance Packs, and revive packs... that is absurd...
There are other things to "fix." This isnt broken!
Forgive me for my ignorance but I don't see why it's a big deal if they limit it to 100. The only time I even use 1000 is if I want to get rid of extra resources. Other than that, it's not that hard to make a schematic and pop it in the factory real fast. But perhaps crates are more in demand for crafters other than tailors.
This works for people who stay near their factory *and* are on a lot. For people who log in 2 hours a day, or for people who start a factory run, then run off to Yavin 4 for a little killing fun, the change effectively means that you can only keep your factory operating 4 hours a day.
limiting schematics to 100 is a bad idea. the number one reason is that it's impossible to make complete crates of various items. i'm specifically thinking of stim e's, which require 3 biological effects controllers(BEC). so after making the schematic that at best only leaves 97 BECs, limiting the effective max crate size to 32, when in fact the crate can hold 50.
that is the example i'm most familiar with but i'm sure there are others, a few of the enhance packs (D level) also require 3 BECs and i think some of the high level CM meds require 3 identical subcomponents.
it just doesn't make any sense to have a crate that can hold fifty in principle only hold 32 in reality. either the schematic size must be larger than 100 or the crate size must be smaller.
and in response to your point about DB size, how would it help the DB if i ran 10 schematics of 100 units versus 1 schematic of 1000? either way there are still 1000 unique items in the database.
maybe for whatever reason 1000 is too high but please increase the maxnumber to500 at least.
thanks,
sw
100 is too low.
Obviously if it has taken so long to get around to fixing the 'feature' of making a schematic of 1000 items.. it cant be that big of a deal.
Heck i bet most people dont even make 1000 items, they put in enough for 400 or so and just let it run..
dont chain us to the factories, that = no fun
I am at work and havent had much chance to read all of this but from what I've seen I agree this sucks.
At the very least if we are limited to 100 will the speed of factories increase? The reason I ask is if someone wants to place a order over 4 crates of Synth or RFP I don't think I should have to postpone what ever i had planned for the evening just to sit by and keep putting in a new schematic every time it runs out.
Right now according to having about 7 crates in six hourscompleted last nightthats almost 3 hours for 1 run. And its still going until about 6-7 tonight at that rate. But if the schematic was limited to 100. I would only have 8 crates out of 20 when i get home tonight and even then still couldnt have the order donebefore bedtimeif I started up again the second I got home. Slowing down the customer and tying up my factory when I need it most.
I Feel that the limit should be around 1000 also. I would like to see one thing change about factories though. It would be nice if the factory would automatically take the items it needs from crates IE: for a fwg5 it takes PH, Proj Barrel, and Feed Mech. I would love to be able to just drop in a crate of each and put in my metal and run them, instead of having to dump 75 individual items into the ingrediant hopper.
Just my .02.
Brownring Russler
Master Weaponsmith, Bloodfin.
By the way,
We hear a ton of emphasis on the database. Nearly everything considering everything thinks about the impact of the storage on the database.
Can I ask why this is?
Compare it to say, EQ.... EQ each character can have like what, 250 items on themselves and in the bank per character? Plus many people have "Mule" characters. And there are like 8 characters per server, which means up to like 2,000 items per character per server.
I do realize this is not EQ, but naturally they also use a database to store all these items. How do they do it?
Or does it come down to the problem really being items within houses have the potential to be loaded and accessed by many people walking within that house? If that is the root of the problem, can't you create an item (like a bank) that archetects or DEs can make that would store items and would not load them until an administrator of that item accessed it?
Or is the problem with the nature of the item itself that requires more DB storage per item since items (Like in EQ) are not identical? For example, if you had 20 accounts in EQ with max storage that would be 200,000 items. However, many of those items would be the same thing.
Maybe it comes down to being more efficient with DB storage with different serial numbered items of the same type?
Many, Many, Many people would find the game a lot more fun without this perpetual (And VERY low) "Item Limit" screaming over their heads like:
- 7 Day Vendor Auctions
- Items deleted**** from vendor after 72 hours in the STOCK room. (Heck, It's called a STOCK room, As in, a ROOM where you put STOCK)
- House Limits
- Bank Limits
Holocron wrote:
This is an upcoming change on TC. The change was made because this is what schematics were always supposed to be limited to--there is a bug that lets you put in a value larger than 100 right now.
I see some negative reaction to this change. How impactful is it? What is a reasonable limit in your mind?
I'll state up front that there may be DB reasons why we don't want a huge number here, so I will have to check on whether changing it is feasible at all.
Think of it this way, if MERCHANT/CRAFTERS are to survive we have to be able to make things in bulk.
People love to buy crates of stim packs as a simple example.
BUT if you limit to 100 the schematics that means the largest crate of Stim Pack E's I can make will be about 30 items (requires 3 IDENTICAL FACTORY ITEMS WITH SAME SERIAL NUMBER). The crate mind you costs only ONE SLOT in the database.
Meanwhile to keep up with demand I will now be required to login EVERY 1.5 HOURS AROUND THE CLOCK and create new schematics every time and Reload shuffle crates to factories etc.
Basically I will quit and I'm a major supplier of meds on Flurry. I cannot have this game take more of my time than my work currently does. This would become more than just a full time job.
It's sadly obvious that nobody in the dev group plays this game. I do not like PvP or PvE or GCW, but I love to make stim packs for the weary combat classes. And they really like having them in crates so they can just pull a few out as they need them. This would destroy a whole sub-culture of people who play this game to craft and enjoy the results of making people happy with our products. Why have a factory if the max you can make is 100 items at a time (two crates!)
1,000 seems resonable it's only 20 CRATES and therefore only 20 items in the database.
Holocron wrote:
I'll state up front that there may be DB reasons why we don't want a huge number here, so I will have to check on whether changing it is feasible at all
What I don't get is, if this 'bug' would really cause that DB issues, why didn't u see that in the last 3 months since release? Well, you saw the melons short after release and I guess you made many more of those DB checks. So if you didn't see it meanwhile, it can't be that big of a DB issue, right?
I'm not a crafter anymore, but I'd prefer seeing them able to make a run of 1000 items than anything lower.
factory crates should be splitable, and I should have factory crates that hold 1-1000 items.
if only for storage reasons alone, a single 1000 stacked item has to be less DB space the 10 100item versions of it. and not to mention the simplicity of making batch runs, and not having loose items all over the place. I have at least 5 crates of 1 generators i cant use because they arent identicle.
Ok, please please keep in mind:
Doctors and Bio-Engineers (when factories will work for them) manufacture crates of 50 stims, if you place the limit at 100, we can effectively only make one crate at a time since some of the components need to be used in the experimentation of the schematic.
Thus, please make the limit something like 505-1005, 10-20 crates in one run is not a lot and we would not like the fact that we have to start creating numerous schematics of 55 for the making of crates, this would essentially remove all the benefits with manufacturing (you can do runs on offpeak times while you're not playing) except that the produce is in a crate.. which per se is not enough of a benefit in my opinion.
Please keep in mind the need for experimentation, or allow identical designs (identical stats) to be used in the manufacturing of an item, instead of requiring matching serials.
Thanks for your ear.