Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-16: Combat Roles; Teras Kasi Artist
nerfs that should take effect.
-lower ranged defence. ALOT.
-take away dizzy ability. (it hard enough not being able to hit them, and now i cant get up.)
-if its gonna be the strongest fighting class in the game make it harder to get.(i can master it in 3 days) not to mention you still have 158 skill points left when its all said and done.
-does any one here know how far 20 meters is??? if you dont, go get a ruler, measure the distance and try to punch some one from that far away.
the fact of the matter is every one is a tkm now, and pvp with one is really no fun.
its THE strongest fighting class in the game should be the bounty hunters....LOOK MOM, NO SKILL POINTS LEFT!!!!
i had to duel class to hang with a tkm. (pistoleer/bountyhunter i.e. jango fett style)
i think the devs need to wake up and smell the maple nut crunch and get to work on revamping this most revolting combat class ever and the rest of this abomination that is called starwars galaxies.
I think that mostly TKs are fine the way they are. Just a few points.
Getting owned by a TK? Ever hear of kiting? If you kite a TK.. he has ZERO chance to hit you. None... nada... That needs fixed. If anyone is getting owned by a TK then they either don't read the forums... or... well.. deserve what they get. Kit the TK, you will win. Or... better yet, kite and do mind shots. (another thing that should go).
TKs should have a chance... bad chance, good chance... I don't care... just a chance to hit while movie. Any chance.
Jedi killers? I hope that isn't true. Doesn't sound like the character I want to play... doesn't make them seem Alliance friendly....
---- I WISH SOMEONE WOULD POST A BIG NOTICE THAT TK CANT HIT FROM 20 #@$#@$ METERS! ----
I kind of like Fireborne's ideas somewhat.. As well as the idea of stances.. Offensive stance lets you dish out more damge, but you take more damage.. the opposite fora defensive.
One dodge and block.. Dodge should really be the TK still.. We're not blocking that sword.. We're dodging it.
Defense accuity still needs to be fixed (COB). As well as our combos that do 1 pt of damage.
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In keeping with the RP of the character I have to admit I agree that TK should be the ones that are ICLY helping to keep a check on the Jedi, that was thier original reason for existing, after the Jedi effectively destroyed thier home world. BH should be getting bounty on rebel criminals in some manner.. But thier should be away for the TK to participate on this level. And allow BH to have bounties other then Just Jedi. (They did hunt queens too 
).
Overall I think the TK is pretty well balanced save for the above. But thier really isn't anything out there to really involve them in a story line at this point. I would enjoy a stealth move... hehe.. or better AP on kinetic armor
But were basicaly ok. Just not much left to do for us I guess.
Thunderheart wrote:
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theTeras Kasi Artistrole in combat?
The TKA's role in combat is one of harmony and flowing with the chaos of battle. They need to be able to apply maximum force with minimum effort, dropping enemies like raindrops.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Meditation, Great Balance, Perfect Accuracy
What offensive abilities?
Knockdown/Dizzy... what the heck . TKA are perfect as they are. The only class thats where it should be..
What defensive abilities?^
see above
What unique abilities?^
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?^
How could/should they interact with other professions?^
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?^
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?^
(copied from CestusVirium) http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=jedi&message.id=278413
I’m not really sure WHY I started writing this. I think it was a combination of annoyance over the constant whining of people about the power of a TKA, and the number of TKA whining about the lack of TKA power. To those of you who chuckle when I say that, you know I’m not referring to you.
I will warn you, this is a semi-long treatise, but I hope that doesn’t discourage any of you. I also hope that it this post doesn’t simply get buried, and while I know a lot of people won’t agree with me, but I hope people at least see what’s written.
And, of course, this all purely opinion based.
What a Teras Kasi artist IS: Well…this is one of the more debatable questions concerning our class. The Extended Universe states that it is, paraphrased of course, born from a group of survivors who sought to police the Jedi after their civilization was nearly wiped out in a battle between the Light and Dark sides. Now, ‘to police’ (or regulate, if you prefer) can be, depending on where you look, be replaced with ‘seek vengeance upon’.
They trained their bodies, spirits, and minds to near perfection even as they learned the interconnection between the three. The TKA pulled upon the inner power of one’s self, rather than the outer power of the Force. They developed ways to resist some of the influences of the Force, they developed ways to combat Force wilders (be it Jedi or other Force based ‘religions’).
What a Teras Kasi ISN’T: A god. Plain and simple, no matter what is written on them, they have the inherent weaknesses and drawbacks of any other species of their race. Just as members of the Jedi order are usually thought to be the the physical and spiritual perfection of their respective races, having long ago learned the links between a sound body and a sound mind, so are the TKA.
The Jedi were wiped out nearly to the man. By one of their own. By the Dark Side, and yes, according to the Extended Universe, even by Bounty Hunters and common people who believed the Emperors propaganda. A TKA, for all their vaunted skills and abilities, are no better off. They’re not immortal, and despite near physical perfection, they can die.
Now…to those of you who play TKA, you already know what a TKA means to you. I’m not going to try and dissuade you from your beliefs, I know what a TKA is to me.
For those of you who might be new to the profession, or even dreaming of being a TKA, you might wander what this means for you? Well…in purely game-play terms, it means you get to play a brawler-based class; a martial artist, to be exact, and one capable of dealing out large amounts of damage rather quickly.
Are they over powered? Are the end-all, be-all of Star Wars classes? I do not think so, and I did not have said opinion even before I was a TKA. I think, from the game play aspect, they have their flaws, things that need to be changed and corrected, but I think overall, TKA is one of the most well balanced classes in the game.
Here, for those of you unfamiliar with TKA, are the pros and cons, in general of our class.
PRO -
· TKA is one of the fastest hitters in the game, rivaled only by Pistoleers and Fencers. This means that, per second, you’ll hit more frequently than a Heavy Swordsman of Rifleman.
· TKA deals a fairly good amount of damage per hit. Now, despite what other classes may say, with regards to melee (and TKA specifically), we still don’t quite rate up with Swordsman or Pikeman, while slightly outdistancing the Fencers. There’s a reason for this, which you’ll see under ‘CON’. Same can be said with ranged. We outdamage the Pistoleers, while not quite meeting the damage per shot of the Carbineer or Rifleman.
· TKA possesses a nice amount of defenses. We’re not really stretching far beyond other melee classes, if at all at the master level (been awhile, honestly, since I sat down and did the numbers crunch), but brawlers, in general, have good defenses. We need to when we’re right up against our foe pointing away.
· TKA, and this is purely a ‘financial’ boon, have to worry about weapons less and less as they get higher. Our damage goes up as we level up in the Power line. Most master TKA will tell you to not even bother with VKs (Vibro Knucklers) unless you’re fighting something with an armor rating. Good advice, in general. Armor at that point is also less important than it is to some of the other classes as well. Essentially, the less you use your VKs, the less wear and tear they suffer, and thus, the less frequently they have to be replaced.
CON –
· Despite the TKA’s speed, and despite our power, most people forget we are essentially a random HAM class. We have three, count them three HAM specific attacks that do about as much damage by master as Unarmed Hit 1. These are great finishing attacks when you’ve got your opponent down to almost nothing in one bar, and don’t want to suffer the randomness of Unarmed Hit 1, 2, or 3.
· TKA never get higher than Light AP. This is a drawback of other speed-based classes as well. While I haven’t looked at the Fencer weapons in awhile, I know from experience the ones I used never beat AP 1. I also know from my time as a master Pistoleer that the Pistoleer doesn’t get a higher AP. Both classes have other drawbacks and complaints, but I won’t go into them here. All other combat classes have weapons available to them of at least AP 2.
· TKA only do one type of damage: Kinetic. This is what separates us from the other speed-based classes. Both Pistoleer and Fencer are able to do at least one other type of damage. So, despite only having an AP of 1, they can change up their tactics. We hit harder than they do, but they have a larger range than we do.
· TKA are limited by range. Just like the other three (four if you include brawler) melee classes. Our maximum range is in the neighborhood of ten meters, give or take a bit due to lag (which is why we have a range that high anyway). The Unarmed Lunges (1 and 2) extend this just a bit, but is not a high damage dealing attacks.
Now, we do have the dreaded ‘Knockdown/Dizzy’ combination that causes others to see us as evil. However, a Master Brawler has the same capabilities with only a slightly less chance of success if they use One Hand Dizzy and Unarmed Lung 2. Most people don’t realize that this is so. In my personal experiences, I get that combo (or unarmed dizzy 1, since it’s the same attack, with different weapons) to work as often as using the TKA KD. Others may argue that point. I can’t, and won’t, speak on their experiences.
Some of you might be asking what all this means. Well, allow me sum up a bit.
Essentially, if you compare our base strengths and weaknesses (and I’ve no where near discussed them all), we’re pretty well balanced. We deal out good damage, with limitations to what we can hit and how we hit it. Let me go one step further and say this:
As much as I love TKA, I also love Pistoleer. In fact, that was the first elite class I ever mastered. Now, my pistol, no matter what it was, really, shot as fast as a master Pistoleer as my roommate is with punching as a master TKA. He deals out a bit more damage than me, but in general, we can kill things with the same speed. Why? Because while he’s dealing out higher damage, I’m doing less, but specifically to health. So while it takes me a shot and a half/two shots to make his damage in one, he’s thrown a shot to Health and a shot to Action. Both of mine are to Health.
Let’s take this one step further. A Heavy Swordsman, using Two-Hand Head Hit 3 swings at a mob twice. In the time it takes him to hit twice, a master TKA hit four or five times (depending). The TKA will most likely out damage the Heavy Swordsman in overall damage, but it’s spread out among the three pools that make the HAM. The Heavy Swordsman is dealing it to strictly mind.
Another way to look at that same example is this: The Heavy Swordsman can deal enough damage to kill a creature in one hit more often than the TKA. Meaning the TKA has to spend more HAM, though it’s likely the creature will die just as fast either way.
Is this fair? Most certainly. We’re not the hardest hitting class, but we’re fast. We don’t hit a specific HAM, but we hit harder than other speed classes. We come close to hitting as hard as a Swordsman or Pikeman, but we don’t have their AP. We don’t have the diversity of damage types of any class.
To me, that’s all a fair trade off. We can’t take out everything in the game ourselves. That’s how it’s supposed to be. We should need to depend on other classes to a degree, depend on other players. We can take other skills to enhance our own inherent weaknesses, as can any other class.
Are we overpowered? No.
Are we underpowered? No.
We are balanced. Well balanced, for the most part.
Are there still things that need to be reworked within out class? Of course, and I’m sure we’ll find some changes coming to us as they work to balance the classes and make each one as functional as they possibly can.
· TKA deals a fairly good amount of damage per hit. Now, despite what other classes may say, with regards to melee (and TKA specifically), we still don’t quite rate up with Swordsman or Pikeman, while slightly outdistancing the Fencers.
- 3469, 2775, 1387, 694 (2009, 1004, 502, 251 without vibro knuckler)
Swordsman,speed sliced hammer (138-470 @ 3.5). DPS against AR0, AR1, AR2, AR3:
- 1614, 1291, 1033, 516
Just offhandI'd say Swordsman isdoing only about half the damage it should.The devs apparently agree;here's what a damage sliced scytheblade iscapable of in the hands of amaster Swordsman + Brawler:
- 3295, 2636, 2109, 1054
I expectsimilar improvements for Pikeman andFencer. So, do we have balance? Not yet -but that's changing.
Okay, i've been TKM for about 3 weeks now so i feel like i have enough know how to post a repsectable response. First and formost, I played an EQ monk for 5 years, and when i first started playing SWG i avoided TKA like the plague, why on earth would i want to play more or less the same thing in a different game. In some ways i was right in others wrong. At times i find TKM rather boring. PVE is the same stuff.. KD/Dizzy. warcry1, unarmed 2,unarmed 3, unarmed 2, unarmed 3. dead. Not alot of thought going into it. In EQ my role was rather different. i was master of pulling. i brought things to the group and we all beat the snot out of it. With myself doing the most damage over time.. and once i got the weaponry. pulling off hits that made the group go (HOLY ****) that was a source of pride, and i get a feel that being TKM is supposed to give that same sort of pride. All in all, i think the every profession just needs more ingame content. and TKM is no exception
What defines theTeras Kasi Artistrole in combat?
We are Unarmed DMG kings. Anything that gets in range is turned to a bloody pulp. (more or less we already do that, but each melee profession should have a #1 thing that makes them the best. ours should be DOT (no not bleeds.. but DPS, we should have ultra emphasis on attacking 5 times before most attack once)
What basic combat elements should they possess?
tons of specials. that is my biggest grip. we should have combo's galore.. not just for hitting every element of ham, but tons of moves.. punches, kicks, the whole shabang. Bruce Lee, Jet Li, The matrix. what ever you picture, we are purely physical fighters.. our bodies are our weapons... we need those kind of specials
What offensive abilities?
speed, speed, and more speed. DPS is our speciality.
What defensive abilities?
Only while unarmed and un armored. we should have some sort of bonus while in that state. and penalties need to be their when we start putting armor on. We should not be seen in composite.... ever......
What unique abilities?
Specials! i want to have tons of choices in combat.. not just spamming KD2 and unarmed 3, counter attacks should do dmg.. it's a Riposete for crying out loud. I block your attack then break your nose.. Dmg mitigation should be an increase in blocks and dodges and such (yes i know i'm going EQ monkey here.. but it was a sound concept there, so why not here?) Oh, and i think Stun should also be a special attack (not a status effect but dmg type... i mean you get in a ring with any unarmed fighter and get smacked around thats gotta count as stun dmg some how... maybe a special at mastery that does stun based dmg. VK dependancy needs to be removed..... this is just MO though, i picture TKM as UNARMED fighters......so why the heck do we use VK's? AP1 for PVP. give use more attacks that remove that dependancy)
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
While we should be able to stand toe to toe with the biggest nasty in the galaxy, our abilites should not offset everyone else. In groups i decimate 4 or 5 enemies before my mates have taken down 1. usually i hear "NERF!" cried shortly afterwards. Speed should be the TKM's speciallity. and that should be seen in group work.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Respected. not hated. Melee should respect us. ranged should fear us up close. ( I really wish people would get it in their heads that standing 5m away from me with their Blasters is not going to win them a fight..... then they cry NERF!. dumb. you get that close you SHOULD die.)
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Well, kinda like EQ, While i believe that PVE content should be available for the soloist (like my self) certain battles should need group interaction. since i really don't group much. (and if i do. i'm in my Master doctor role)
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Well i'm a Colonel of the Empire. I've completed the Emperor's Retreat and he named me a "Hand" i RP that to death. i often picture myself as one of his Agents trained in the Deadly art of Teras Kasi, sent in to assassinate the opposition. The way i understood the Lore that exists on TK, the order was kinda secretive. the GCW kinda has people dabling for Template stacking. so i really don't have an answer to this.. maybe just give tons of bonuses (not just to TK but to every elite profession) that can only be given at Mastery. Like that's where alot of the Melee/ranged defense kicks in.
