Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-16: Combat Roles; Teras Kasi Artist
In a galaxy far, far away, it is a time of civil war. The Empire has taken control over the galaxy and attempted to build the ultimate battle station to enforce the will of the Emperor. The rebellion destroyed the fearsome Death Star and this galactic conflict is at its peak.
In Massively Multiplayer combat, each profession should have a distinct role. Each role should help define the profession and have a relationship with its abilities in combat. In popular fantasy games, wizards cast ranged spells, warriors are “tanks”, and clerics “heal”. Each archetype has a specific role in combat and they all depend on each other for success. Additionally, each role gives any particular player group a unique feel depending on how many of each type is involved in a group and the role they play when combat gets tough.
In a science-fiction oriented game, those traditional roles aren’t so clear cut. Most skills and abilities are redundant because of balance issues, which take away from the unique feel of the profession. Many players have stated that they would like to see SWG professions have a more unique feel to them and we would like to know what your thoughts are.
Some basic balance considerations are:
* Ranged and Melee Professions
In SWG, a key thing to consider about each profession and its role in combat is that there are many ranged combat classes and many melee combat classes. Each ranged combat profession should have a unique aspect to their “ranged” abilities that helps distinguish them from other ranged combat professions, and likewise, each melee combat profession should have a unique aspect to their “tanking” or melee abilities that helps distinguish them from other melee professions.
* Redundant vs. Unique Abilities
There are two basic set of combat skills any profession should have. The first are Redundant Abilities. These are abilities that either most or all combat professions posses, in other words, “everyman combat skills”. The second set of combat skills a profession should posses are Unique Abilities. Unique abilities are the abilities that give a profession its unique feel in combat. In other words, it defines the profession and its role in combat.
* Game Space
Another basic concept to keep in mind when thinking about combat professions and their role in combat is Game Space. The next big consideration for assessing combat abilities is where the combat takes place. There are indoor spaces and outdoors spaces. Indoor spaces would be dungeons, bases and the like and outdoor spaces would be wilderness and/or city spaces.
* PvP and PvE
In SWG, players can choose between PvE and PvP playstyles and even shift back and forth to play in elements of both. PvE is “Player versus Environment” and basically deals with fighting computer controlled enemies in combat. PvP is “Player versus Player” and is real players fighting real players and tends to be very tricky because anytime something in game is at stake (like faction equipment, etc), it is important to keep things fair and balanced, but also fun.
* Profession Lifespan
What is the profession’s role in its novice state and how should the skill progress over the course of a player’s time investment in the profession? At all times any given profession should have a distinct role and value in combat. As a player progresses from Novice to Master, the profession should reflect something special about the profession and also be fun to play.
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theTeras Kasi Artistrole in combat?
What basic combat elements should they possess?
What offensive abilities?
What defensive abilities?
What unique abilities?
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
How could/should they interact with other professions?
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Request For Comments:
The community is invited to make commentsthrough April. At that time, the thread will be closed to further comments. Feel free to comment on any or all of the above items. Please stay on topic.
heh no feedback on the best profession in the game.
- a teras kasi is a virtual tank. being the best at melee...period. they take the hits and they dish them out. they are the fastest brawlers in the game.
-as for combat elements...most is implemented . they swing fast but don't hit as hard. but there lack of weapons makes it diffulcut to do much damage since everybody has 80% kinetic on now.
-there offensive should be much stronger as they can make you have massive wounds to any part of your body. and certain attacks should me merged. as the nexu grin head strike should be merged with blind attack. and most people never use the combo attacks cuz they deal to little damage over all. spin attacks are only useful on mobs.
-defensive....well there acuity is nice but it modifies how much they dodge, block , counterstrike. but since they have none of those mods...how do you modify 0? unless i have read it wrong it does modify those. i also thinkmeditation should help with battle fatigue. teras kasi sit he closest profession to jedi. and jedi can meditate to heal all aspect of there body. i thikn battle faitgue should be able to be slowly healed maybe 1-5 points per.
-tk has been balanced pretty far. but is still lacking a little more defense but they do posses other tank qualities....
-well if the kd ablity actually made somebody defense and mods reduce or disapear completely i could see a tkm walking up to somebody dizzy knockdown then a rifleman at long distance letting loose...and not watching the target which is laying on the floor dodge all the riflemans shots with there mods.
-one problem iwth tk is that people run and they depend on getting close or the buddy next to him knocking down the target to get close to deal dmg.
-as for a unique roll a tk should be able to appear out of nowhere and just trample at a close range. and either take the hits or retreat back to the back lines to heal..maybe even an assasin role..since they are more sneaky with no weapons.
just some small things as being a tkm for a little while now
The Teras Kasi order was founded to keep the Jedi in check. This means the Teras Kasi should be capable of evading or absorbing the close range damage dealt by a Jedi, with a strong mind to counter Force suggestions and Force powers. This could be represented by being one of the hardest melee professions to damage, while not necessarily being the most damaging themselves.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
The Teras Kasi artist should be an adept at counter attacks, blocks, and evasion. In an order founded on controlling a group who tends to swing deadly bars of energy at you, it is wise to learn how to get out of the way, and fast.
What offensive abilities?
The Teras Kasi artist should use the lack of weapon to their advantage. Fast attacks, pinpointed to have devastating effects, suggests they should have a high speed with a middle range damage, but a wide range of state effects. Excepting the currently very high damage, this is well reflected already.
What defensive abilities?
The Teras Kasi Artist should have the highest defensive capability of the melee professions. Counterattacks that actually counterattack, evasion and blocking, along with the ability to deflect attacks to reduce the damage they inflict. This does not necessarily apply to ranged attacks, however; a Teras Kasi Artist should know that wide spaces are not the best place to be an unarmed combatant in a fight.
What unique abilities?
Not having a weapon in combat can be a significant advantage. Freed from the need to keep your weapon from damaging yourself, the Teras Kasi Artist can move faster and with more precision than other melee professions. This should be reflected in specials that target specific pools without a significant loss of damage, and exact strikes to cause state effects. Further, the meditation and force of will skills provide a good representation of the Teras Kasi Artist's fine control over their body. A TKA should have good resistance to Force attacks.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
A TKA should provide a good front line combatant, surviving where other combatants might not, and able to use their precision to apply states to further boost the group's effectiveness.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
The obvious interaction from the continuity is for the TK to keep the Jedi in line. This is a tricky one to handle, I leave it to you.
The TKA should not have a strong dependency on armor, nor on weapons, leaving a dependency on the medical and entertainment professions, tailors and architects, and other combatants for large combat.What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
The Teras Kasi Artist should not necessarily be a stand alone powerhouse. With a reduction in their damage output, a dependency on the high damage, weak defense combat professions would be introduced. This might not be a popular change.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
The TKA offer little directly to the GCW. As combatants, they can add their strength to either side; if the Jedi ever had reason to join the GCW, the Teras Kasi should be ideal to counter them.
What defines theTeras Kasi Artistrole in combat?
Hand to Hand dominance..... no other profession should be able to go one on one with TKM and expect to survive, however if a ranged player attacks at range then the TKM shold lose. This is what should happen, def not what happens currently.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
we should be able to take anything and kick it teeth to the back of its throat, I also feel a better stat attack would be good. Body hit sucks right now. TKM should be faster than any other melee prof as well. We are the first line, the "Tanks" as it were. Mediation is very cool theway it is. I know alot of people are crying NERFTKM right now but once the balancing issues that are already set to be changed are done there will be no need of a nerf.
What offensive abilities?
KD/Dizzy
What defensive abilities?
What about a blocking modifier for any melee that attacks inside their optimal range, and a penalty for the TK if they attack outside the proper range as well.
What unique abilities?
Meditate and self heal
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Faster attack speed bonus, and additional protection from all kinetic dmg to the group if the TK is GL
How could/should they interact with other professions?
should be able to group with many of the ranged professins well, maybe some problems with other melee though since a swordsman would get in a TK's way there should almost be a penalty for grouping them together, such as a negative to hit modifier
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
They should not be dependant on any other class. however they should have to interact with weaponsmiths for improved VK's
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
They should be the buffable Tanks, that everyone was using their pets for a few months ago.
What defines theTeras Kasi Artistrole in combat?
Teras Kasi Artists should be the "untouchable tanks". They should be all about defense, able to stand toe-to-toe with almost any foe for a long period of time.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Minimal melee offense, but very strong defense - melee and ranged defense. They should have a good range ofspecial abilities to make up for a poor damage output. (Note: I realize that this is not how TKAs are now, but this is how I think they should be...)
What offensive abilities?
Unarmed (or VK) melee attacks that are fast but weak. Their offense should rely mainly on special attacks, not direct damage.
What defensive abilities?
Very powerful defense. Against a melee combatant, they should be almost untouchable. They should have enough ranged defense and speed to get close to a gun-toting opponent. A few mobile defenses like Pistoleers have might serve well.
What unique abilities?
A wide variety of specials as they have now -- knockdowns, stuns, bleeds, anti-knockdowns, etc. The ability to recuperate quickly before the next fight (though there should be some limits to what they can heal). A few defensive specials would be useful as well, like a Blaster Dodge special that makes it easier for them to move in on a shooter. Also they should have the ability to draw the attackto themselves -- intercepting an attacker with their own defensive abilities and forcing that person to face them.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Tanking the scariest stuff. While they might not be able to kill much (in this design model), they should be able to last a long time against powerful opponents. A group sends their TKA against the single most powerful opponent.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
A TKA should be very hard to defeat, and they should have a hard time defeating others. They should be the "stalemate" class.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
A TKA should rely on others to do the killing. Their job should be to occupy the most dangerous foe so that their friends can either kill it before it does much damage or finish off its allies while the TKA keeps it busy.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
TKAs should be the best choice to occupy an enemy Jedi or Bounty Hunter. With strong defenses and mobility, they might be able to close the gap against these dangerous foes while others group up to harm them.
Added Question: What is their weakness or shortcoming in combat?
TKAs deal small damage, and their defenses work best against a single melee opponent. A TKA engaged with a Rancorshould be quite vulnerable to a pistol shot in the back.
What defensive abilities?
I would like to see better ranged defence, lets see back flips and other cool animations for dodging blaster fire! Although maybe excessive, I would like to see a 30% chance of dodging shots at Master status, with increased chances coming while enemies have (-) to hit.
What defines theTeras Kasi Artistrole in combat?
I think it should be our tanking abilities and our state change abilities. We should be able to last almost forever against any opponet and we should be able to dizzy, KD, blind, intimidate, stun, etc.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Very high deffense with little offensive output
What offensive abilities?
We should be at the bottom rung in terms of melee damage
What defensive abilities?
This is where the TK should shine. Since we can not dish out alot of damage, we should be able to tank almost forever. In a solo one on one battle it should take a while for a tk to bring down an opponet but we should be able to last long enough to do it.
What unique abilities?
The meditate, powerboost, and force of willare fine just like they are.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Being able to soak up the damage and apply state changes as the rest of the group pounds away on the target.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
I would like to see some meditation parapheniala. IE artisans could make incense or candles that we could use while meditating. Using these items would make our powerboost better or heal quicker or maybe even get rid of battle fatigue.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
We would need ranged characters to use their ranged knockdowns so that we could catch a "kiter" and we would need their damage as we do not do alot of damage.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
We should be very quick and sneaky, being able to infiltrate perimeter defenses. Like having a chance of being able to get past a block turrent or travesing a minefield.
A few parting shots.
Since xp is generally based on the amount of damage a character does our xp requirments would have to be adjusted downward. Not being able to deal out alot of damage would make the current system of advacement way to slow.
Since we would have low damage output we should get a few more types of damage. Maybe some stun gloves or something like that.
Ok seeing as my original post disappeared when the forums went down for maintenance, this is justthe gist of what I said:
Basically TKA isTHE martial art in SW and as such should reflect the best/fun/interesting partsof what we know of our own martial arts. At novice TKA you would have abilities/skills above the average fist fighter and at master level a TKA would have almost superhuman/mystic, or far more relative almost Jedi like abilities. I think this was the original idea behind TKA (I still have the original TKA PS fighting game at home, I'm sure it said something along the lines of the above about it). Anyway, I can really recommend a dev getting hold of a copy of Palladium Books, Ninjas & Superspies (http://store.palladiumbooks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=525&Category_Code=N525) as it has excllent information about 41 known matial arts, and its from a gaming perspective (N&S is a paper RPG system I played yonks ago). I'm wanting a winja just something more fitting along the original idea of TK. I'm posting from work atm but I'll find my copy of N&S and post some good examples of what might be great to go into TKA...
First.. a bit about me. I am a Teras Kasi Master / Master Doctor on Wanderhome. My experience in SWG is almost exclusively with the PvE aspects of combat. I have to say, it's been a lot of fun, and I personally think of my template as the best possible template one can have. I would like to thank you Thunderheart, for opening a question like this. This is an enjoyable game, for all it's flaws, and I think it's important people understand that.
What defines theTeras Kasi Artistrole in combat?
Teras Kasi Artists are spiritual warriors, not body builders.
We focus ourselves and attain the ability to be fight with great skill, but not strength. Our strength is borne from turning the undisciplined muscles of our opponents against them. Our speed is our greatest asset, allowing us to see the attacks of our foes before they even begin to move, allowing us not only to negate their attacks, but to make them work for us.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Teras Kasi need no weapons, a powerful advantage.We train ourselves to become weapons.I see us as being agile, not tough, relying on evasion and targetting weaknesses to defeat opponents.
What offensive abilities?
We need the ability to view and open weaknesses in foes.
The current condition attack system works well, but I would like to see higher end, less resistible Blind, Stuns, Dizzys, and Intimidates. I would also like to see a system for observing how resistant a creature or person is against thesecertain attacks.
I would also like to see a large decrease in overall DPS. We should not be outputting the damage we currently do, especially with a VibroKnuckler.
What defensive abilities?
We need the ability to evade damage and counter the force of the blows we do take. Our defenses should be at their peak against human sized foes.
Ideally, I think that TKA defenses are fine at the moment.. against Kinetic type damage. I don't think it's intended that we soakall other damage (Acid, Electricity, etc.) just as well.
I think a Teras Kasi should rarely be hit, but when they are, they should feel it.
What unique abilities?
We should have the ability to draw further into ourselves, for healing, calming, and temporary offensive capability.
Meditation is absolutely the best skill in the game. I think it should have a greater combat utility, however. Possibly something like Berserk and State of Being.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
The role of all Brawlers is to pin down an opponent, to protect others from it's teeth and claws, and melee attacks, while they perform their combat functions.
A Teras Kasi specifically, should be exceptional with human size foes, and do quite well in combat with other Brawlers, but poorly with Marksmen.
We should also have the additional benefit of being self sufficient in terms of having our own healing capacity, freeing up the medic from the chore of tending our wounds.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Teras Kasi are extremely self sufficient. Needing no weapon, and no armor for their role(really! I fight most of the time with just clothes!), and having their own healing built in makes them solitary at times.
Their primarysocietaldrawshould be clothing, food, and entertainment.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Teras Kasi need to rely more on other Brawlers to take out specific, common types of foes. Things like fambaa, rancors, and kimogila should be difficult for a TKA to hold down, as they are too large for them to easily damage, or redirect.
Teras Kasi should have an absolute need for Marksmen, to do damage quickly, before their foe gets in an attack.
My recommendation is to make abeing underfire by a skilled marksmen AND being melee'ed by a TKA, lower it's defenses against condition attacks. It makes sense.. you are more apt to being dizzied if you are trying to dodge blaster fire, and keep the martial artist from kicking you in the jaw.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
What defines theTeras Kasi Artistrole in combat?
Picture Bruce Lee in "Enter the Dragon"
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Fast damage, effective blocking, attacks keyed to an opponent's weak point.
What offensive abilities?
Powerful hits (that do not require vibroknuckles) to any part of the body. The ability to knock an enemy to the ground.
What defensive abilities?
A TKA should have significant ability to block an attack (in the style of the martial arts).
What unique abilities?
Meditate should confer self heal and power boost.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
A TKA should be an effective "tank", capable of holding aggro.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
TKAs should be your first line of attack in the traditional role of a tank.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
A TKA should be limited in the kind of damage they inflict (kinetic only), be vulnerable to ranged damage, and be next to useless against AT-STs and other machines.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
TKAs should have a special blocking mod against a lightsabre. They were, in the EU, supposed to be a threat to Jedi.