Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one? (II)
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BenkeiHami
Mon Jul 21, 2003 7:12 pm
#1
the path to becoming FS should be mysterious, advancing as a jedi should not.
Ryten
Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:01 pm
#2
To anyone that says it should be unknown:
You have got to be kidding. Everyone knows who plays this game that leaving something untested for the sake of keeping some big secret is a huge mistake. For one, it kept us from finding out how shallow the original unlocking system was until it was too late. For another, it meant that Jedi would be forced to play a broken profession for far too long because it was untested. Give the players, ALL PLAYERS, the chance to test Jedi. Don't beat around the bush, don't try and make them rare on the TC, just let everyone test them! The worst thing to do is pander to a few when the masses get no say. All keeping secretswill getus is broken quests and dissatisfaction.
To the devs:
No matter how hard you make it, there will be many Jedi. So, lets cut the fat and get to the meat! All one does by making something hard to get is create a system of haves and have-nots and a growing sense of emnity bewteen the two. This is not an online community if this happens, it is a caste system, a pecking order, a forced idealism. Short of just giving it away for free, sure, make it something to earn, but make it so anyone can earn it with some effort. Everyone deserves to play on equal footing. Note that grinding anything is NOT an equitable system in the slightest. All that does is reward people with more free time and promote unhealthy playstyles. Finally Iwarn youthat a quest can be a grind too if you screw this up!
WookieBounty
Thu Oct 02, 2003 2:52 pm
#3
Suba wrote:
As I stated on the other Thread. As The Movies and everything indicates. All Living beings are force sensitive from Conception. This Could be done by Allowing in the New System all players to Start with 1 FS Skill Point thus getting a Novice FS skill right off the bat. This would represent the All Living beings are sensitive to the force its an energy that binds etc.
From the Point where everyone has thier 1 FS Skill they must then proceed on a path of enlightenment to learn about the force and what it is. This would be done by Missions or quests that the player Takes. a Good System may be to have It so like the Jedi Trainers the player has to go to a certain Trainer who is a "Mentor" who will teach them about the force and give them the missions to attain the skills to become fully force sensitive thus unlocking to become a jedi. The Mentor would allow thier to be no camping of a spawn site to get thier advancement. They would visit thier specific mentor and do as he says.
What i think is important though is that we make sure that The Non Combatants of SWG do not get left out. There does need to be 2 Series of Quests. One for those Who are combatants and one for those who entertain or just craft.
I like where this is going...
- Give everyone a FS skill that relates to their current field..(so its their choice)
- Once they have this skill they can then use it and grow their sensitivity from there...like discovering your powers and focusing on what it can and can't do..
- This progression will lead to more Force sensitivity then leading you from there to being ready to be a jedi
Ideas for skills
- Ideas will come later but make the skills based upon your Novice Proffessions... i.e. Smugglers would have the option to choose from FS skills that are Marksman based or Brawler based
- Bh'ers would have Marksman based and Scout based FS skills to choose from
- Once they choose whichever skill they want they can then explore that skill and develop it more.
I will have more on this later once I have some more ideas..
rallymonkey
Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:12 pm
#4
I believe it should be known. Randomness is not something we need.
JustG
Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:54 am
#5
(Now with 75% more info!)
There are many stages in the path to becoming a Jedi...
The first among them is becoming Force Sensitive. Once you become Force Sensitive you can choose to continue on the path to becoming a Jedi or not. The path to becoming a Jedi will be a long and dangerous one.
Publish 10 is focussing largely on the path FROM Force Sensitive TO becoming a Jedi... this is going to be very quest and story-driven, and will take some effort and time on the part of the players. This path will be directed, and you will know how to get through, but it will also contain an element of mystery.
My question has to do with the step before all of this... with how you actually become Force Sensitive.
The question to continue discussing is this:
Should the method of becoming Force Sensitive (not the path from Force Sensitivity to Jedi) be a mysterious, unknown mechanic orone that is visible and known to everyone?
Thanks for the continued feedback!!
TheNarcis
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:00 am
#6
It shouldnt be a mystery like the old way. That just frustrates too many people.
But have it so it tells you something new to do each quest after you complete the previous one. And have it all random order for different people so the "walkthrough" isnt on the web.
Also dont make it uber harder now, because it wouldnt be fair for people that have been playing since beta and have not unlocked. It should be no harder than it has always been.
joshjay
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:01 am
#7
I dont think it should be totally random or totally unknown. I do think it should vary from person to person in some way. Maybe like 5 or so different paths to follow that allow for different play styles to give crafters just as much as a chance as a combat class. It should be unknown but have guidelines given by an npc to follow to figure it out. So then its not just handed over to you, you actually have to use your head a little bit. Mass killing of creatures to get items or whatever rarity would suck.
....
sorry for posting about the last thread on this thread
....
sorry for posting about the last thread on this thread
Message Edited by joshjay on 07-10-2004 11:11 AM
MaxSteele
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:02 am
#8
JustG wrote:
(Now with 75% more info!)
There are many stages in the path to becoming a Jedi...
The first among them is becoming Force Sensitive. Once you become Force Sensitive you can choose to continue on the path to becoming a Jedi or not. The path to becoming a Jedi will be a long and dangerous one.
Publish 10 is focussing largely on the path FROM Force Sensitive TO becoming a Jedi... this is going to be very quest and story-driven, and will take some effort and time on the part of the players. This path will be directed, and you will know how to get through, but it will also contain an element of mystery.
My question has to do with the step before all of this... with how you actually become Force Sensitive.
The question to continue discussing is this:
Should the method of becoming Force Sensitive (not the path from Force Sensitivity to Jedi) be a mysterious, unknown mechanic orone that is visible and known to everyone?
Thanks for the continued feedback!!
In any MMORPG, if you make something "hard to figure out" or "unknown", as soon as someone figures it out, EVERYONE knows about it. Walkthroughs, etc... get posted on forums and personal web sites.
If you spend a large amount of effort trying to make the Force Sensitive method a mystery, it will be in vain once one person figures it out.
Asheron's Call had a way of dealing with spells where with the more powerful spells, there was a random element to it for each person. But even then, someone figured out the 'pattern', and it was easy to find out what your 'random' element was.
If there were some way you could make the experience unique for each person, then the walkthroughs wouldn't have all of the information.
But I think making it "mysterious" and "unknown" will be wasted effort.
Tiaga
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:02 am
#9
I think much of peoples answer to the other thread were about becoming force sensitive. The player perception is there are 2 phases.. Before you're force sensitive, and after you're force sensitive. At some point you can start advancing in force sensitivity. It is getting to that point that most people seemed to be talking about.
Suba
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:03 am
#10
As I stated on the other Thread. As The Movies and everything indicates. All Living beings are force sensitive from Conception. This Could be done by Allowing in the New System all players to Start with 1 FS Skill Point thus getting a Novice FS skill right off the bat. This would represent the All Living beings are sensitive to the force its an energy that binds etc.
From the Point where everyone has thier 1 FS Skill they must then proceed on a path of enlightenment to learn about the force and what it is. This would be done by Missions or quests that the player Takes. a Good System may be to have It so like the Jedi Trainers the player has to go to a certain Trainer who is a "Mentor" who will teach them about the force and give them the missions to attain the skills to become fully force sensitive thus unlocking to become a jedi. The Mentor would allow thier to be no camping of a spawn site to get thier advancement. They would visit thier specific mentor and do as he says.
What i think is important though is that we make sure that The Non Combatants of SWG do not get left out. There does need to be 2 Series of Quests. One for those Who are combatants and one for those who entertain or just craft.
From the Point where everyone has thier 1 FS Skill they must then proceed on a path of enlightenment to learn about the force and what it is. This would be done by Missions or quests that the player Takes. a Good System may be to have It so like the Jedi Trainers the player has to go to a certain Trainer who is a "Mentor" who will teach them about the force and give them the missions to attain the skills to become fully force sensitive thus unlocking to become a jedi. The Mentor would allow thier to be no camping of a spawn site to get thier advancement. They would visit thier specific mentor and do as he says.
What i think is important though is that we make sure that The Non Combatants of SWG do not get left out. There does need to be 2 Series of Quests. One for those Who are combatants and one for those who entertain or just craft.
Shiznat9000
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:04 am
#11
Hmm I think most people assumed that all characters would be sort of force sensitive enabled after pub 10 but not have any real powers yet, and then they would begin the quests to become jedi and that's where the time sink would be. This new path to become FS confuses me, which path are you planing on giving people credit for that have mastered many professions but haven't got jedi yet? Becoming FS or FS to Jedi?
Also which path are you planning on requiring more time to complete? I'm asking these things because it will make a big difference in my answer to your question.
playoff
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:04 am
#12
i think it should be known on how to become force sensitive....but it should not be easy.
i like the idea from FS to Jedi being quest drivin....thats how it should be IMHO. but to all the people who still dont have a jedi toon and want to have one( me for example ) it should be known how to become FS, but again should not be easy. maybe something along the lines of it being quest drivin and a combination of how the jedi trials to knighthood are currently, by killing some random spawn creatures.
something like that would be cool. but dont make it mysterious
Fire-spray
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:06 am
#13
This is a repeat of what i said before, but it was more of a way to become FS rather then an actual answer to your question of Known versus unknown.
Here is a way that will keep Jedi down to dedicated players for at least a while. Eventually it will be trivialized and people will run through it faster as the means become known, but here goes...
-----Make the quest to become a Jedi like the Everquest Epic Quests (without the Idiocy)------
----Each starting class has a different quest. Aka. Entertainers will have a different quest than Marksman who will have it different from scouts etc etc.
-----Involve multiple people, but do not make it so that a person has to have a group of 20 to do it. For example, part of the Marksman's quest may require them taking down a particularly difficult mob for a piece of an ancient Lightsaber... He cannot do this solo, but do not make it the frickin Deathwatch bunker. A group of 6-10 who are well prepared can get in and get out if they are smart.
----- Make it take some time, but do not make it so that it involves "camping". You can put some grind into it without making it a grief to your players. For example, an Artisan may have to find some very rare resources to combine, and then must go through a series of quests to gain a schematic...once they get the schematic and use the resources they create a modern day "holocron" of sorts that gives them the location of their next clue.
-----Make travel a necessity, make players travel all over the galaxy, a minimum of one stop per planet at the VERY least. Get folks out there to see this beautiful world you guys have created. Make some use out of Talus and Rori lol.
-----Make badges and POI'S worth something. Say, for example, the person that the Pc's need to talk to to begin their quest will not talk to them until they are master in at least one novice profession and have aquired XX number of badges from themparks and exploration.
----- Let me repeat DO NOT MAKE these quests/this journey so that only uber PA's are able to accomplish it, or that they require hours of camping stupid things, or items that only drop once every other blue moon......just thought that beared repeating (that was the downfall of the EQ Epic quests.) Keep these long and difficult, by sheer magnitude and a touch of randomness....not through monotony. 
-----Make it take time, but do not make it a money sink. Some of run missions to get by, and some run them into the ground to be rich, Some craft for cash and some craft for xp/fun. Don't make it break your bank.
Example of a quest:
I have never played an entertainer, but this is just an idea of how to go about it.
After hitting master entertainer, and aquiring enough badges, the entertainer goes and talks to the quest starter.
1. First the quest starter sends them on errands to pull together the best outfit for the "show to end all shows"
2. The player then begins to track down this outfit that can consist of 5-9 pieces. It can be dropped loot, or tailoring schematics earned from quests that they in turn use another player to create thereby involving other profs.
3. After completing the outfit portion, the quest starter may require the PC to prove themselves as an entertainer and require them to earn badges of entertaining from major NPC's. For example, the player must earn the Badge of Jabba's approval. Which also means they would have to earn the Jabba's badge of trust. If they have already done that, they go straight in and he may send them on a few quests to "take care of some issues that will free up some of his time". Thus these quests done, Jabba will consent to watch/listen to the PC. Allow the PC to then "perform" for Jabba for X amount of time resulting in the Badge of Jabba's approval.
4. Repeat step 3 for the other themeparks (excepting where overt Rebels/Imps trying to perform for the opposite faction).
5. Next have the Entertainer perform for a HOSTILE NPC. at the bottom of a dungeon. Of course this would have to be an instanced NPC. For example, the player would activate the starter npc for this after aquiring the other badges and an Instanced version would then spawn that was not targetable. The entertainer would have to find a way to the bottom of the dungeon and converse with the NPC then perform for them. AKA. The entertainer brings some friends to help him get to the bottom of the Fort Tusken, they fight their way in, get to the bottom and talk to the Tusken King. He watches the PC dance, nods approvingly, viola badge !!! Then tells the group that they had better leave and gives them either a secret exit out, or flags them as non hostile in some way to prevent having to fight all the way back out, or...screw em...make em fight it back out lol.
6. After the player has aquired the badges of approval from the NPC's , the quest starter tells the pc that he must now find the back up band to start the show. He will give clues that lead to people who have info as to where this band member may be found. The trick here, is to make sure that the bandmember does not always pop up in the same place...then it becomes cookie cutter and folks will run through it too fast. Make them pop up randomly like BH targets after the player has spoken to enough "contacts". Also do not make it so that the contact just says "oh yeah i saw him talking to soandso on this planet". Make them do a destroy or delivery mission to get the information...aka time sink.
After the player does this for a 4-5 piece band and gets them through yet other quests to agree to perform,the player can talk to the quest starter to arrange for the time and place of the show.
7. The Show. After arranging the particulars, the player makes their way to the event......which can utilize some of the precreated theaters. amphitheaters. cantina's, town squares etc etc. When the PC gets there, the band is set up and ready to go, when the player takes the stage, a system message like a shout, or even a planetary message goes around that a terrific show is about to start. Finally, the player must perform for x amount of time....with this caveat......the more people watching, the shorter the time it take to complete the show. This would encourage people to talk their friends and PA's and perfect stranger to come out and see the culmination of their massive undertaking. After so long, the player is told they feel a tingle and a surge of energy unlike anything they have experienced before. All of their trials and tribulations have expanded the scope of their thinking and reasoning.....they have become sensitive to the greater worlds around them.....and to the force. At the end of the quest, the player has opened their Force Sensitivity.
Again, this is a very very rough first draft pounded out very quickly while i am at work. But personally i think this could be refined and expanded upon in so many ways, to make it not only fun, but different for every player. Additionally, let people know up front that it requires ALOT of time, energy, work and patience.......as it should to become a Jedi.
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