Development Cycle Archive

What defines the Pikeman role in combat?

The pikeMan stands his ground so strong it would require a deathblow to move him from his position. Grouped, the pikeMen are even stronger with the abilty to control their area within their range. Jousting while riding a swoop bike defines one of the most powerful attacks a pikeMan can do. Impaling targets and pinning enemies down into the ground would be other typical definitions of how powerful a pikeMan can be in combat.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

Alone the pikeMan stands his ground, either on his own two feet or sitting on a swoop bike. Grouped with other pikeMen the pikeMan group experiences an increase in their combat abilities as they become more potent for each added pike weapon.

What offensive abilities?

Standing alone wielding his weapon, the pikeMan is the master of crowd control. Areableeds combined with knockdowns or posture changes is common because of the pikes massive damage, often capable of choppping of an enemys foot and do sever wounds in the process. If faced with one enemy the pikeMan has the ability to pin his target down into the ground, holding it there by the tip of his pike. Jousting on a swoopbike doing one of the most damaging attacks in the game is another offensive ability not to be forgotten. Alone, a pikeMan is slow but strong.

Grouped with his fellow pikeMen, the pikeMan receives special bonuses to only his unique skills: area attacks. The bonus is determined by the amounts of pikes beeing held in the group. Bonues type: damage, wounds, speed, accuracy, etc... Grouped, a pikeMan is slow, but stronger than ever.

What defensive abilities?

There is no way of making a pikeMan who stands his ground,fall on his back! He is the master of the area and has so high defensive skills, it would require a deathblow to make him fall to the ground. Standing his ground, he uses skills like block, his mind(CoB) and high defenses against mod attacks to fend off incoming attacks. Alone, the pikeMan is a hard target to knock over.

When grouped with other pikeMen, the pikeMen receives a defensive bonus to their unique skill: block. Trying to move a pikeMan group, is close to impossible.

What unique abilities?

Jousting Combat - the ability to joust when using a vehicle or mount.

Improved Areattack: Areableeds, wounds and KD/posture change in one move(no, don't need dizzie...) - master of crowd control

the Pin move - the ability to pin down and hold a single target by the tip of the pike for a given amount of time which increases as the pikeMan gains his experience...

Impale - the ability to impale a singel target, lifting it up from the ground. This attack should add Stun, Bleeds and wounds to the normal damage. Also, this ability must include a new animation, actually showing the target being lifted up from the ground(only humanoids though)

pikeMan-special-bonus-when-grouped-skill - when grouped with other pikeMen, the group receives a special bonus to offensive and defensive unique profession skills.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

The pikeMan should be a welcomed sight in combat. With the ability to "tank", and even tank better when grouped with more pikeMen(pikeMan special bonus), the pikeMan would bring new aspects to group combat.

How could/should they interact with other professions?

The pikeMen are melee, and should intereact with other professions in a way that makes them stand out for what they truly are; masters of crowd control in melee combat. Interaction should be with a profession that supports crowd control, and squad leader, combat medic and/or carbiners(here we also got action damage set...) would be good alternatives.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

when grouped with other pikeMen, there should be a special unique pikeMen bonus. Grouped, pikeMen should be like a living fortress of fear... impossible to move, and hard to take down.

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

The pikeMen are mercenaries, only taking pride in their own achievements and honoring the hunt. They are often hired in to play vital parts of larger battles where massive melee damage is required. During the clone wars, they were feared for their abilty to joust on a swoopbike, devestating their surroundings. If anyone needs confirmation on this, just ask Durge...

In a galaxy far, far away, it is a time of civil war. The Empire has taken control over the galaxy and attempted to build the ultimate battle station to enforce the will of the Emperor. The rebellion destroyed the fearsome Death Star and this galactic conflict is at its peak.

In Massively Multiplayer combat, each profession should have a distinct role. Each role should help define the profession and have a relationship with its abilities in combat. In popular fantasy games, wizards cast ranged spells, warriors are “tanks”, and clerics “heal”. Each archetype has a specific role in combat and they all depend on each other for success. Additionally, each role gives any particular player group a unique feel depending on how many of each type is involved in a group and the role they play when combat gets tough.

In a science-fiction oriented game, those traditional roles aren’t so clear cut. Most skills and abilities are redundant because of balance issues, which take away from the unique feel of the profession. Many players have stated that they would like to see SWG professions have a more unique feel to them and we would like to know what your thoughts are.

Some basic balance considerations are:

* Ranged and Melee Professions

In SWG, a key thing to consider about each profession and its role in combat is that there are many ranged combat classes and many melee combat classes. Each ranged combat profession should have a unique aspect to their “ranged” abilities that helps distinguish them from other ranged combat professions, and likewise, each melee combat profession should have a unique aspect to their “tanking” or melee abilities that helps distinguish them from other melee professions.

* Redundant vs. Unique Abilities

There are two basic set of combat skills any profession should have. The first are Redundant Abilities. These are abilities that either most or all combat professions posses, in other words, “everyman combat skills”. The second set of combat skills a profession should posses are Unique Abilities. Unique abilities are the abilities that give a profession its unique feel in combat. In other words, it defines the profession and its role in combat.

* Game Space

Another basic concept to keep in mind when thinking about combat professions and their role in combat is Game Space. The next big consideration for assessing combat abilities is where the combat takes place. There are indoor spaces and outdoors spaces. Indoor spaces would be dungeons, bases and the like and outdoor spaces would be wilderness and/or city spaces.

* PvP and PvE

In SWG, players can choose between PvE and PvP playstyles and even shift back and forth to play in elements of both. PvE is “Player versus Environment” and basically deals with fighting computer controlled enemies in combat. PvP is “Player versus Player” and is real players fighting real players and tends to be very tricky because anytime something in game is at stake (like faction equipment, etc), it is important to keep things fair and balanced, but also fun.

* Profession Lifespan

What is the profession’s role in its novice state and how should the skill progress over the course of a player’s time investment in the profession? At all times any given profession should have a distinct role and value in combat. As a player progresses from Novice to Master, the profession should reflect something special about the profession and also be fun to play.

Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:

What defines thePikeman role in combat?

What basic combat elements should they possess?

What offensive abilities?

What defensive abilities?

What unique abilities?

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

How could/should they interact with other professions?

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

Request For Comments:

The community is invited to make commentsthrough April. At that time, the thread will be closed to further comments. Feel free to comment on any or all of the above items. Please stay on topic.

Holding back for ranged allies? No thanks...

First off... We're supposed to be the damage dealers, according the you devs... So why dont you make us just that... Keep our weapons speeds the same, but up our damage, and crying out loud, fix the -54 and higher accuracy mods, and the HAM costs, and the to-hit midifiers on our weapons... give us more weapons, more of a variety of damage types, also we need more polearm toughness modifiers, we have the least of any... Block lets in 50 percent of the damage, while fencer dodge evades ALL damage, and they do it more than we do...

We should have awsome defense, great damage, and mediocre speed... polearms are very damaging weapons and we should specialize in area attacks... things like area sweeps, area hits, and Id suggest an area bleed and an area attack that does damage to the action pool... On that note, our polearmhit1,2, and 3 need to become Action pool hits... how can we have action bleeds, but polearmhit3 hits health more than anything... also, out polearm hit 3 has a 3x modifier on it, when the other hit 3's have 4x.. fix that...

We should be area attacking good defense, awesome offense, with mediocre speed... make us useful...

We should also be good friends with carbineers, who also need attention, for the yhelp us out with their action specific hits...

In the GCW, we should be feared, because will can come in with our weapons quipped and ram the crap out of an enemy.. while moving on a vehicle, we should be impossible to targer outsevles, but players can damage the mount and blow it up, causes us to fall off, when we would then become attackable... the bike should be one that has higher ham than normal, so it cant be one shotted, and it should be a faction perk...

Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:

What defines thePikeman role in combat?

-- The pikeman's role in combat is multi-functional given the array of weapons that are currently provided. For the record, none of the polearms are (arguably), in fact, pikes. With true pikes, the role would be one of line defense, and anti-cavalry (mounted unit). In the current context we are given the following: Lance - piercing offensive weapon best used while mounted - typically used against a single opponent, PoleAx (closest to a true pike) - heavy slashing weapon used to cut down both infantry and mounted enemies - typically used against multiple opponents, and Staff - primarily INDIVIDUAL defensive weapon with concussive damage deliverable against multiple opponents. The various damage types are not the most horrible thing to deal with, but the weapon uses all belie the pikeman's historical role. Many would claim that we should be the defenders, but with the staff as our sole defensive tool, we are defending only ourselves. Looking at the poleax and staff, you could draw the conclusion that our role was to serve as crowd control in that we work best in facing multiple opponents at a time, though that would preclude the lance (and vibro lance).

What basic combat elements should they possess?

-- The basic elements of the pike are those of infantrymen. Armor being necessary is not out of line for the profession, as such any balance for weaponry should be made with the assumption that any penalties for armor (such as decreased secondaries) will be in effect at ALL times. It should also be done under the assumption that any benefits for armor will be in effect. That said, an inherent "personal" toughness is not as important as the weapon/class specific defenses listed below. (we aren't hardened as much as others as we rely upon our tools). Offensively, however, the weaponry needs changing all around. As mentioned, Lance is an individually attacking piercing weapon, Axe is an area slashing weapon, and staff is a FAST (it is currently one of the slowest) defensive and concussive weapon.

What offensive abilities?

-- Unlike other combat classes, a pikeman is truly defined by the weapon he is wielding. If wielding a lance, he is keeping you at bay, and trying to deliver piercing damage (low damage, high bleed, no posture change/stun/dizzy). In addition the lance, even in the Canon and EU, is a weapon intended to be used while mounted (see below). With the axe he is slashing at multiple enemies at once (Area attack, heavy damage, high bleed,little posture change, no stun/dizzy). With the staff, he is primarily blocking anddelivering concussive damage at multiple enemies (Area attack, medium damage, no bleed, high posture change, high stun, high dizzy).

What defensive abilities?

-- The defensive abilities of the pikeman are defined almost entirely by his armor and his weapon. The pike is designed to keep your enemies at a distance where they cannot damage you. The sole exception to this rule (arguably) is the staff, where it's defense is gained in the form of blocking. Pikeman are the heavy infantry and cavalry. As stated earlier, our personal level of toughness( to use current terms - dodge and melee defense ) are not as applicable to the profession as our equipment. If I am keeping you at a distance of my lance, you are NOT in range to hit me with anything shorter than it. (<--that's a period... and unlike the current situation where range unarmed is actually GREATER than range with a 2m lance). The defense gotten by this can be carried over in the form of the current melee defense (provided we have the weapon equipped). Our primary defensive method (not mounted) after the range should be the block. NOTE: this block is performed with our equipped weapon, NOT with our bodies (as is currently implemented - blocks allow half damage to come to us).

What unique abilities?

-- The unique abilities of the profession are the versatility (in that we truly are defined by the weapon we use) and the ability to effectively use, and defend against, mounted combat. Although we should be most versed in crowd control through area attacks, the heavy sword should have some ability in this regard. Another unique Skill which should be considered is the ability to pin an opponent (suggested by a fellow pikeman - see boards for details). This, again, stresses our role in defense and crowd control.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

-- A two fold question. As a pikeman in a group, I should be able to serve as defender (aka tank) drawing the attention of the enemy, yet keeping them at arm's (or more accurately, weapon's) length. I should also be able to incapacitate (pin) opponents for my groupmates to dispatch more readily. (If I'm standing over you with a 2m axe on your chest, you're not getting up that easily). As a group of pikemen, however, there is a different advantage. Pikemen form lines (it's what they do). If the line is standing, you are not going past it without considerable effort, and/or damage. If the line is mounted... well, time for a new pair of shorts :-)

How could/should they interact with other professions?

-- this question and the next seem a bit interchangeable, and much has already been covered. We require armor, we require a variety of weapons to accurately serve our role. As the front line, it's necessary for us to rely upon all the support services (combat and non-combat) available. Our function, in return, is to insure that the line is not breached.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

-- see above two sections

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

-- another dual answer... We are the elite guard, putting ourselves in harm's way to protect our charges. We are also the mounted troops that WILL run you down, and skewer you on a stick.

Sorry for being a bit long....

Misterie Baton-Noire

---

Thunderheart wrote:

Pikeman are the 'tanks' of the melee profession. They should have slow, but very damaging attacks. Possibly a slightly greater range to hit to reflect the nature of their polearm weapons. (7m instead of 5m). Defence wise they have little dodge or melee defence, but have a very high toughness and strong ability to stand on their feet (dizzy and knockdown resistances) at higher levels.

* Redundant vs. Unique Abilities

A 'charge' ability that closes the gap between a ranged and a melee class. Running around in circles is no fun, especially with lag. This would only last about 10 seconds or so.

The area attacks are very nice abilities, the damage output seems high.

New weapons with less damage, but higher accuracy might be more welcome to the pikeman class. The Vibro lance has less AP AND Damage then the Long Vibro Axe, so no one ever uses it unless the enemy is vulnerable to electricity.

* Game Space

Excellent in closed spaces against a mass of players, due to area attacks. Slow and not as accurate as other professions, but a solid hit should be devastating.

Issue: Current weapon toughness is far below a TKA, which seems odd.

* PvP and PvE

This is a mainly PvE class, with certain front line charge abilities in PvP. Good against rifleman and commandos who may need to stop to get their shots off. Not good against BH or Pistoleers who can dance around them.

* Profession Lifespan

Current progression is not bad, except the weapons statistics seem far out whack as far as accuracy and damage. The long Vibro axe appears bugged with -50 or worse to hit. There really should be an actual 'Pike' weapon or two for the pikeman though

Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:

What defines thePikeman role in combat?

Tank, good bleeder, good vs PvE, difficult to knock down in PvP. Block skill can block many melee attacks, but susceptible to ranged.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

Slow but heavy damage. Not as accurate as other classes, but not so bad they miss every hit, and the missed attacks nearly kill as pikeman (as they do now)

What offensive abilities?

Area knockdown and dizzy abilities (they have them) and high DPS.

What defensive abilities?

Good melee, resistances to dizzy/knockdown, vulnerable to blind, so so ranged defences. Good toughness though.

What unique abilities?

Charge ability, 10 secs of burst run, at a cost to mind.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

Advantage in group combat by being the first 'distraction' for an enemy. Can tank a PvE critter to let the others in the group do what they need to.

How could/should they interact with other professions?

They can do very well in PvE, but work best in a group against the tougher high level mobs. They do this right now as long as they are buffed, have armor, food and drugs.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

Buffs should help, but not 100% necessary as they are now. Pikeman will get wounded a lot in mind and body as a result of their tanking, so will interact well with many other professions to get healed, and buy new gear.

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

Possibly good for killing turrets and runningthrough minefields

PIkeman can benefit with just a few little tweaks- a few more weapons that havea decent AP, high but not insanely high HAM costs, and low but not extremely low accuracy. A real 'pike' weapon. A new weapon cert for the Master Pikeman would reward anyone getting that far- a weapon which might even have heavy AP, but be very inaccurate, high HAM costs and slow speed. More toughness would be welcome, as a comparison between Master TKA or Fencer vs Master PIkeman makes the Pikeman look like a crippled cousin. (Oh- please fix Block...)

Ren

First of all let me say thank you for posting this TH.

Now for my opinions ( minus the profanity of course )

Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:

What defines thePikeman role in combat?

What basic combat elements should they possess?

What offensive abilities?

What defensive abilities?

What unique abilities?

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

How could/should they interact with other professions?

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

What defines thePikeman role in combat?

I think Pikeman should be the guys that can handle 5 guys surrounding them, we have a huge stick, and should be able to keep multiple mobs at bay with ease.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

As a Profession that can take on multiple targets, we should have area attacks, heavy damage, slow speed, high defense.

What offensive abilities?

Some we have some we don't...here we go...Area Bleeds, Area State Effects, Area Knock Downs.

Speaking of Knockdown moves, please fix the problem where if you hit a mob with a knockdown or posture change move when they are already down, they stand up. This hurts us big time, our "best" move PolearmHit3 has posture change. And speaking of that, PolearmHit3 from what we understand, does not have the same modifyer as others x4 I think?

Our weapons had been borked since day one, and nothing has been done to fix them. Devs have stated it was a problem in the building of our weapons (The Weaponsmiths) our range mods are -40's to -60's on Long Vibro Axe, and -20's to -40's on Vibro Lance.

Our HAM cost have been and still are our worst enemy, with or without specials...

What defensive abilities?

As much as I like our Range defense, I have no idea why we have it. Besides having people Kite us, but see below to put a stop to it.

So as of now Pikeman have some of the worst defensive mods in all the combat classes, I think Riflemen have more melee defense than us!?!....We need to be tough to handle multiple mobs beating on us, while we beat on them. So adjust our defensive stats to more of a defense power house on the melee side.

Damage Midiigation has hurt us very much our weapons have some of the biggest ranges in the min-max damage, most professions it only takes a small % of there damage away where ours in the 30% range. this couple with our very poor accuracy, and bad bad range mods on our weapons was kinda a nerf to us.

CoB, good in concept, but you gave +block+ to a Profession who is already in the "gimp" department with defense. Block still lets damage get to us, and we arn't sure how it interacts with armor. The other melee's with better defense have have a better CoB than we do does not compute

What unique abilities?

Being Melee only it is quite easy to beat usby just running away from us. I would like a War Cry type ability that enables us to pin down a mobas to keep them "stuck" where they are for an alloted time. They can still attack when pinned just not move...also maybe this move could push ourmob in to are best range to hit them in, or adifferent move that can do that.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

Well if the above and below templateis followed I'd say the rest of your group gets the bonus of you being able to handle 4-5 mobs at one time while they concentrate on the stronger, or strongest mob in the area.

How could/should they interact with other professions?

Im not a fan of having to interactmy self, as you will see below I see Pikeman as a rouge agent out on his own.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

In fights with more than a few ranged enemys we would need ranged professions help. Vise versa, ranged people would need our help when dealing with in your face combatants.

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

I know this game promotes grouping, but, I see Pikeman being able to go out on there own, and take down the opisition in little groups. Kinda a rouge agent out on his own thing.

When in a big battle, we would be one of the first lines of defense, and the first wave of offense. We would charge the battle line, and take down as many of the the enemy that have a far reach of range, Riflemen...

Well I guess thats allI can say for now...us Pikeman love our Pikeman, but have been pushed aside since day one, we are not leaving youcan't get rid of us...oh one last thing..please, please refer to us as Pikeman in the patch notes, and not "polearm"...kthxbye

What defines thePikeman role in combat?

The Pikeman is the guy who stops kiting Pistoleers. His job is to knock down opponents and prevent them from running.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

Decent melee combat and the ability to affect enemy postures and catch kiters.

What offensive abilities?

Their basic attacks should be pretty mediocre across the board -- more powerful than TKA, faster than Swordsman. Bu they should be able to affect enemy postures.

What defensive abilities?

Decent melee defense, almost as good as a TKA. They should be particularly good at defending against melee fighters, though not as good as a TKA against ranged attacks.

What unique abilities?

Knockdowns, sweeps, area attacks, and the ability to reach people at greater range than other melee classes.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

Pikemen should be able to occupy multiple opponents at once as a tank, or chase down running shooters and knock them to the ground, leaving them vulnerable to finishing strikes.

How could/should they interact with other professions?

Pikemen should be fairly good at preventing others from fighting. In melee, the Pikeman's knockdown ability should totally dominate all but the TKA. Against a ranged opponent, the Pikeman has the best chance of stopping their mobility.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

Though Pikemen knock people down, their damage is not great. They would do well to have a Rifleman or Swordsman handy to finish enemies off.

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

Anti-kiting tacticsand area melee attacks give them two useful roles.

Added Question: What is their weakness or shortcoming in combat?

They are quite vulnerable to ranged attacks and probably can't do much to a TKA.

Looking at the weapon, it can be seen that the weapon itself is flexible at blocking attacks, but attacking with it leaves the user vulnerable. Also, it is somewhat cumbersome to yield, thus slowing the attacker.

So:

Long-ranged melee.

Good block and counterattack modifiers.

Lowish speed.

High attack, but special moves temporarily reduce your blocking and countering abilities.

Basically, the pikeman should be most effective in a group, where he can defend himself when being attacked and cause serious damage when the foe is not paying attention to him. As a solo combatant, the weaknesses should overcome the strengths.