Dancer Archive

Thread: The New Cantina: Performance Tact for the New System.

PoetDancer
Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:52 pm
#1




Something occurred to me when responding to the last post. I think it may be the reason many of us--both patrons and performers--are unable to adjust to the new system.


When I was healing Battle Fatigue, I could be as melodramatic, comic, in-character, naiive, silly, and vibrant as I wanted to be. In one respect, that is why I enjoyed the "fall" animations as much as I did. Because the more interesting, silly, and melodramatic I was, the more interesting I was to look at. I was not evaluated on the basis of my ability to be serious. In fact, I was evaluated on my ability to be lighthearted.


Why was a naiive, melodramatic, fool like me, rewarded so well in the old game? Its because, and I know this sounds strange, but Battle Fatigue was so foolproof, that not even a fool like the one I played could mess it up. I could be whatever suited me, and heal it. And not only that, but being more foolish, more melodramatic, and more silly than the next entertainer was actually preferred by our audience. It provided them with an interesting spectacle, while they waited.


But targeted enhancements operate by a much different set of assumptions than Battle Fatigue. When we look at the way they work, they are not "foolproof." They require some coordination, and some concern to issue well. Maybe not much, but enough to make them require some volition on our parts to issue them. Its rather like a server, at a restaurant. We ask that she does her job with a certain decorum of seriousness, because we don't want to end up with a Reuben Sandwich an hour after our lunchbreak, when we ordered the Club Sandwich, and wanted it ten minutes after we ordered it.


Which brings up an interesting dilemma. If our buffs are not "foolproof," then will our audience still tolerate it when we act like the fools, drama queens, and improvisational players we did before? Seeing as this is a social profession, will we not have to also change our "social strategy," to cope with the change?


I have been in a time of profound reflection. I am trying to understand exactly why this profession doesn't feel right, from my vantage point. And I think it has a lot to do with the fact that the game has changed, and it will require a new sort of performance to do it, and have it work.


There was a time when "acting the fool" was a virtue in the cantina. And some of us--myself included--reveled in it! I could be a "drama queen" in the cantina, because the cantina in the original game actually promoted drama queen behaviour. The more wild, funny, self-deprecating, and melodramatic we were, the more we satisfied the basic tenant of cantina law: to make ten minutes feel like ten seconds. Wasting time is what we did best. And we prided ourselves on "laying waste to the BF metre," before patrons even had the inclination to check on it.


But if you were a patron, would you actually trust a melodramatic fool to get through a procedure that requires precision, and coordination? Or would you go to the one who wouldn't waste your time? That is the dilemma for we as performers today. We are still under the impression that cantina work is a matter of frivolity. But those days are over now, and patrons want to be entertained in a serious manner, if only to reassure them that they are not dealing with a fool, in a system that is not foolproof.


The entertainer of the future will not go to the cantina to "let her hair (or lekku, or frills) down." Instead, cantina work will be serious work. Performances will be restrained, and designed to reassure patrons that they are serious players, not fun ones. There is still room for entertainment, but we will be entertaining in the sense of a formal dinner party, not a comedy improv.


Patrons have been sounding on the boards, and in the game, for entertainers to take these new found responsibilities seriously. In fact, many of us want our fellow entertainers to take the responsibilities more seriously. That is because this profession is now a, "serious profession." All well and good if you want to be taken seriously as an entertainer. But problematic if you perform specifically because it rewards "acting the fool."


Perhaps this is why I do not look at these changes as anything to celebrate. Because I do not want to be a "polite dinner hostess," for the benefit of the patrons. I want an excuse to be a "melodramatic, silly fool,"and benefit them in spite of my facade.Unfortunately, that sort of entertainer, while great in the old system, is "too foolish for his or her own good," in the new system. Nobody who is looking for a buff feels comfortable seeing an amusing spectacle. They want reassurance from someone who takes the matters as seriously as they do.


Many here believe that there is still room for frivolity in the cantina. I do hope you are right, but somehow I'm not so sure. It seems to me that the more frivolous we are in this new system, the more we give off the impression that we don't care about our work. It used to be if a patron came into the cantina, I could keep him busy by telling him a story, or singing a song. Or saying, "Hello dear! My my, blue looks great on you. Where did you get it?," when the only thing he really needs to talk about is, "can u give me the chef buff?" In the old game, silence was a vice. In this new system, "talking too much," and the patron not having a word in edgewise can be seen as a crime.


We cannot play this new game like the old one. The very nature of what we do has changed, and with it, will require a new sort of performance. The cantina is no longer the place to be melodramatic, silly, foolish, or immersive. It is a place of restraint, distributing draws, etiquette, and normalcy. It is a "serious profession" now. And as such, requires a certain modicum of gravitas.


The good thing--and bad thing--about the "new cantina" is that it is now a "serious space." What is good about it is that it will reward "professionalism," and, "restraint." But what is bad about it is that what goes on there now is too serious a matter to take lightly, and as a result, having fun has to take a backseat to "serious service."

Message Edited by PoetDancer on 09-03-2005 06:16 PM



Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."
Metricula
Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:18 pm
#2


I definitely agree with the idea that a lot of people don't want entertainers who will "waste their time" by actually being entertaining.


I was in a cantina today with basically other entertainers and felt good. We were cracking jokes, using silly emotes, singing songs, and generally having fun. I don't want to see that go away. That's a vital part of what makes our professions one of the most fun, unique classes in the game--in my opinion, anyway. I only have one account and I choose to play an entertainer.


You're right in that things are changing and I don't necessarily think it's for the better. It caters to combat-oriented people, not to us. We never wanted all this gravity.





Ka'va Lyn of Bria, Career Master Image Designer,
Elder Grand Master Entertainer
~and~
Av'elei Qwil of Corbantis, Elder Grand Master Entertainer
"I'm sorry, I can only give you a tattoo if you are a Zabrak..."
I am a real girl
The Daedalus Project on the psychology of MMORPGs
Raph Koster, will you marry me?
ChefVomit
Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:29 pm
#3

From a pre-CU combat perspective, I agree. I really used to enjoy finding fun and interesting ATK players to rid me of my BF. I think I paid a lot more attention to entertainers back then as well. As a combat profession in the days of BF, you were a captive audience, and you learned to live with it and enjoy it. I found that I would seek out ATK-RPers and enjoy the 5 minutes or so that it would take to rid me of my BF and mind ailments.

The astounding thing is, QUITE often I found myself staying long after the healing had been finished. I really enjoyed my cantina time. I felt like I was going in to sit down and relax and heal up. It felt a lot like the days at the beginning of the game, when you would go to an NPC city hospital and have to sit down for several minutes as all the Novice medics hit you with wound pack A's. I kind of liked that. Now health and action wounds came with such regularity that I am glad eventually the number of doctors increased so that it didnt become tedious, but BF was something that accrued relatively slowly unless you had a really bad afternoon. I came to look forward to my trips to the cantinas.

Now there is a different feel to it all. Instead of being able to perform, and allowing the dancer to concentrate on their performance and their fun, they much interact with each patron directly. Sad part is, there seem to be a LOT more patrons than there are buffing entertainers. While forced interaction might look good on paper for entertainers, I really think it is having the opposite effect. The buffing Entertainers now are simply brokers of a commodity, and a necessary one at that. With BF, you could go back into a fight with 500 BF and simply live with the handicaps. But with these new buffs, especially the crafter buffs, the crafters are now forced to seek out an ATK buffing entertainer just because they know every other crafter is going to. That adds one more step to their day, and elite crafters already put a good deal of time and effort into their businesses. Now they are forced to add another step in order to remain competitive in many cases. They dont want a show. They want to get their buff and move on, just like with Docs in the pre-CU days. In fact EXACTLY like Docs in pre-CU.

Sure, there are exceptions to this. I still enjoy talking to entertainers. I always try to engage them if they seem willing, and tip them well any chance I get. But the sad thing is that combat characters with finished templates really dont NEED to go hang out in cantinas anymore. If they are FS grinding, XP comes so fast these days that the General Inspiration buff is not really needed. So basically, this last patch brought you a whole clientele that really didnt want to be there in the first place, but now HAS to be there, while still not providing interest for the majority of the players who happen to be combat professions.

I am a Combat player. I also have crafting and dancer players that I truly enjoy playing. While I am glad to see us getting attention, I cant say that I really like the way things are. Maybe it is a start in the right direction....I dont know. I am just sharing my feelings.

Sorry for the long post.



Zemzam Zeman
__________________________________________________________________________
The crafter formerly known as Chef Vomit
New Profession: PURPLE PEOPLE EATER!
PLEASE DROP OFF ALL WINNINGS AT 3079,3154 Revenance, Lok

Doriana
Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:43 pm
#4

The old mind buffing system was infinitely more complicated than the current system -- and I still found plenty of ways to entertain people, and so did nearly all of us.

So why is this sytem different? I don't see why you are saying you can no longer perform. I perform just fine. I've interacted with more people of varied professions in the past few days than I have in the entire time since the CU and they've all been pretty much happy to see me.

So removing BF healing wasn't ideal. So what? It was a course started well before any of us realized it was happening, and by the time we all caught on it was too late. Complaining isn't going to bring it back.

We found ways to entertain while giving out mind buffs, we can find ways to deal with typing /inspire every 20 minutes while entertaining. Is it really THAT hard?




Doriana | Anabelle

Elder MasterDancer | (sensor hibernating)

-I support ATK people and playstyles.



PoetDancer
Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:49 pm
#5


Cantinas are boring. That is the one thing I discovered in my time on Bria this afternoon.


And I don't blame them for being boring. "Boring" works.


"Boring" tells everyone there thatone isfocused on important things, like making sure they get an efficient interdependent function in a timely manner.


But melodramatic? Foolish? Talking about one's harrowing escape from the clutches of Jabba the Hutt? That just shows one that we are insane, and not focused on the "important things."


And if what one wants is the correct "goodie" we give, why would anyone think a fool, a drama queen, or a comedian is capable of the task?


Message Edited by PoetDancer on 09-03-2005 06:56 PM



Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."
Metricula
Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:51 pm
#6


I miss self-buffing. I'm okay with the other things but think all buffs should go active to finally rid us of AFK bots who just give out the passive general buff the combat people want. I don't mind having to use a /inspire function to give buffs. Mind buffing wasn't so bad, you're right o say this is simpler.


Message Edited by Metricula on 09-03-2005 04:53 PM





Ka'va Lyn of Bria, Career Master Image Designer,
Elder Grand Master Entertainer
~and~
Av'elei Qwil of Corbantis, Elder Grand Master Entertainer
"I'm sorry, I can only give you a tattoo if you are a Zabrak..."
I am a real girl
The Daedalus Project on the psychology of MMORPGs
Raph Koster, will you marry me?
Chessack
Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:06 pm
#7

My experience could not be more different from yours, PoetD.

I have not found players to want serious-minded performers before, or since, the latest publish. And it is certainly not necessary -- nor will I engage in this activity -- to roleplay a serious characater at all. Dejah is a bit flighty, though she takes her dancing and singing and music seriously, and she is prone to acting a bit funny on the dance floor. I do not intend to change this, nor do I expect it to affect my 'cleintele' in the least.

Remember what I said on the other thread: Dejah Thoris is not a buffer. Dejah is like a headliner... the "Celine Dion" of her world(s). If someone wants a buff as she is performing, I will click and give it (and happy to do it, as a player), but Dejah Thoris is not a "buffer" per se. Never has been, and never will be.

I do not focus much on the game mechanics when I play (I talk about them a lot here, but I ignore them in game as much as possible). I focus on spatial and group chat (and guild spam) and on playing my character. The mechanic of click-buff is a game engine thingy... it means nothing to my character. She is inspiring people with her performance, not my clicking ability. That is just one way to express the inspiration in game terms.

It is easy to become so fixated on the mechanics of a game that one forgets to play it. After people are used to the mechanics it will be old hat, and I, for one, am already not really noticing them.

C



=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Dejah Thoris
Dancer, Musician, Image Designer
Kor Spera, Corellia, Naritus
Metricula
Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:49 pm
#8

I'm not noticing it as much with my Grand Master Entertainer. It's my hybrid that's hurting under the new rules.


But the Bria Bestine cantina is hopping right now with lots of live entertainers







Ka'va Lyn of Bria, Career Master Image Designer,
Elder Grand Master Entertainer
~and~
Av'elei Qwil of Corbantis, Elder Grand Master Entertainer
"I'm sorry, I can only give you a tattoo if you are a Zabrak..."
I am a real girl
The Daedalus Project on the psychology of MMORPGs
Raph Koster, will you marry me?
Vronna
Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:35 am
#9

Hmmm... lots of deep thinking going on here......................................


Life is too short to be too serious, especially in the SWG world. I agree that lots of things have been changed and not really for the better. BUT, when I play my master dancer I have fun, I talk with the folks that watch me, do silly emotes, what ever makes it fun for me.


That's right, "MAKES IT FUN FOR ME", if it doesn't? I don't do it. So, just have fun with the profession, with your group/guild, with your customers. I prefer the ATK folks, they are much more fun than afk-ers, and after all, isn't that what this game/world is all about??????





Ane Fadim


Past: Master Pistols, Master Creature Handler, Master Doctor, Master Medic, Master Combat Medic, (CU Master Comando)
Alt: Midaf'ena--The EVIL Twin
Master Tailor, Master BioEnginer. Past: Master Dancer, Master Musician, Master Image Designer, Master Entertainer


Cindal
Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:43 pm
#10

I would be in serious trouble ifI wasexpected me to be serious when performing and/or buffing. Never was, never will be.


If we can't have fun then what is the point of playing? Granted we all grumble at one time or another (especially me), some of us even have to put up with Celine Dion type divas ( ) but if wemust be serious and stop having fun just becausewe are buffing then it's time to take our $15 and invest it in another game.





Cin or do you say Sin
~ Master Dancer/Master Bio-Engineer ~
~ Let la lune de miel begin ~
"You know you're loved if you've been *pillow*'ed."

--Qilue-UCW--
Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:15 pm
#11

I really do not see any reason to be "Serous" anyhow.. The buffs are almost 95% Foolproof. The only thing I could see going wrong is a Performer picking the wrong buff. And even that is easly and quickly fixed.


Edit: aww poop.. this was my 1000th post and I blew it *cries*

Message Edited by --Qilue-UCW-- on 09-04-2005 08:22 PM



Signed, Kyo'nne Ilhar'dro
K
airn Medical Regiment, Chief Medic
T
aeor Quartermaster

"I want to find something I've wanted all along... Somewhere I belong"

~ J'inx
[Bria] ~ Kaji'ra [Starsider] ~ Qilue [Corbantis] ~ Bell'an [Valcyn] ~

Jagii
Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:37 am
#12

Sure, it's all about what makes it fun for you. But for some of us, these newbuffs don't facilitate our fun as well as battle fatigue did, and that's where the problem lies.


= Andrew

Chilastra.Palacek



"There's nothing to talk about, Becky. I'm ugly, boys don't like me, and that's it!!"
Chessack
Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:53 am
#13

Oh I agree.

I would much prefer BF mattered rather than were removed, and that Dejah were a healer. I argued, along with PoetD and many others, to keep BF in the game and make it mean something. Most of the entertainers wanted to be healers.

The devs did not listen. So here we are.

My goal at this point is to try to make the system that *is* in the game as workable as possible.

C



=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Dejah Thoris
Dancer, Musician, Image Designer
Kor Spera, Corellia, Naritus
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