Dancer Archive
Thread: Issues facing the hybrid dancer
1) Viability - The main issue with being Mdancer and another Elite combat profession is being able to contribute within your group. Pre CU this was achievable as everyone was on the same basic level with points able to be placed into your stats as you saw fit and standard buffs to increase ham. Since the CU however the introduction of combat levels has dumbed down this class of player into being a rearguard or support profession only, the reasons being that the lack of health at hybrid level (usually around 54) is lacking 1 thousand Health compared to a CL 80 toon. Its also true that high level PVE mobs will take less damage and do more to you if you are well below their rated cl aswell as low cl players being agro magnets due to most mobs normally ignoring CL80 players will be in CL range to agro on the low level group member making them a liability to the group.
Summary
- Lack of 1000 health points
- Doing less damage/recieving more damage
- Agro magnet due to low CL
2) Self buffs - One of the main benefits to having an entertainer tag along with a hunting group pre CU was to heal bf and mind wounds on the fly, it was common at one stage to see camps being placed and everyone gathering to watch. Later still they became able to give mind buffs. Pre pub 23 dancers were able to have some function in combat groups giving and themselves receiving the standard inspiration buff in camps while out grinding or hunting, now since pub 23 we can buff our group but wont benefit from the extra bonus the buff brings meaning we need to go to town and often use the services of AFK entertainers who are the main providers of the standard inspiration buff in grinding locations. Groups will not often wait for the dancer to do this so they lose out on grind time, XP and cash making it usually more efficient to not buff the group in the wilds and go back to town at the same time as everyone else so they dont lose out.
Summary
- Lack of self buffs means dancer must seek inpiration buff for their own grinding elsewhere
- Encouraging the use of AFK bots by dancers themselves!
- Not viable to buff group in wilds, ends up dancer losing out
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Sugggestions
These suggestions are aimed at Master level dancers and provide ways for combat ents to find a role.
1) In the MASTER box ONLY give Dancers combat levels equivalent to a master elite combat profession. This wont allow dabblers to gain combat levels and rewards those ents who get and keep the master box.
2) In the MASTER box ONLY give a self inspire command. This will allow masters to benefit themselves from their maximum level buffs.
3) Make the standard inspiration buff a deliberate event. At present with anyone able to watch it can be AFKed and is often the main reason for bot's congregating at grinding locations make it another selection from the menu and it would stop the bots.
Please add more issues and suggestions relating to hybrids below as i may not have covered everything. This is not for radical additions to the dancer profession just fixes to issues facing the hybrids or battle bards of the galaxies.
Message Edited by Oblox on 09-06-2005 04:01 PM
Okay, great start.
My take:
1. I think all entertainers should be able to self-buff, but if the skill must be relocated to a higher box, make it an elite novice skill
I have a pure "Grand Master" entertainer on one server and an MID/TKA/Dancer hybrid on another. I have way more points in entertainer classes than I ever will in combat. As such I will always have lower health, lower combat levels, and will be more of an agrro magnet to my party.
Sousually I am also the only entertainer in my party. Before, I was able to buff my party members and myself, even if we were out in the middle of nowhere. Now, while I can still buff my party members, I must go elsewhere for a buff. Sometimes this even means travelling off planet. Either I can go alone, take my whole group with me, or forego my buff. None of these options are much fun at all. We could also fill another group slot with a combat-deficient character like myself--ie another entertainer just there to make sure I can get my buff.
The loss of self buffing also keeps many of us out of our own player city cantinas. We live near Bestine, so often instead of using our own cantina we go to Bestine since I can get a buff there.
I also have to do a lot of extra traveling because I refuse to reward AFK behavior.
I will not go to an AFK entertainer. I will not go to a spamming entertainer. I will not go to an entertainer with a top-tipper list.
Anyway, while I don't mind going to these great lengths to help ATK entertainers like myself, it's a real damper on my gameplay.
More and more, I feel as if they want us to choose to either be a combat character, a social character, a crafting character, etc. The beauty of this game was that you could spend your points however you want. I will never have a pure combat character. I love Image Designing and Dancing too much. So why should I be punished for my playstyle?
I don't think combat levels should ever be granted for master entertainer skills. I'm proud that my CL reflects they way I've spent my skills. Ka'va roleplays heavily. She divides her time between slowly learning to defend herself and her artistic pursuits--MID and part of Dancer.
I consider myself a hybrid, not a dabbler even though I only have part of the the dancer skill set now.
I don't think any combat wombat type character will commit two trees of entertainer plus an elite novice skill just to buff himself, and if then not for very long.
Obviously I don't want it to see it go to a master-only skill since I'm not able to master Dancer as well as ID and TKA.
As far as the new buffs, I like the fact that they put more focus on ATK actions. However, I think that if they really wanted to cut down on the usefullness of buffbots they would have made all the buffs active. I don't think they want to deal with complaints from all the combat people that they aren't able to find someone to buff them--though they are perfectly content to hear those same complaints from the crafters.
So, basically, I want self buffing for everyone or to see it as an elite novice skill.
Message Edited by Metricula on 09-06-2005 08:19 AM
The main thing i see as the problem is the PreCU possibilty of the hybrid dancer is totally and utterly gone, unless you balance out the CL's you will never get that back, i also RP but my character is more a combat type as well as dancing so would benefit greatly from having the full CL.
Why should it be gone? I don't ming sacrificing combat levels to hang onto as much dancer as possible. I will always roleplay my character as she is now, whether I benefit from it or not. However, I certainly wouldn't mind having that perk back.
We should be able to spend our points however we like. So if you split your time between dancer and something else, you shouldn't be as strong as your all-combat counterpart. I'm okay with that. But Panthu was right--it's not as fun to have skills you can't use for yourself.
They originally werent going to add cl to ranger with the CU but did due to feedback i see no reason why this couldnt be applied elsewhere.
I'm definitely against the furtherreduction of skill point costs for entertainer classes. But I've said enough about how I feel about that on other threads
I also hate that it's almost like we're being forced to conform and then are being punished if we don't. I bought this game to be an entertainer, and I will remain so. I just don't understand why they want to make everything so combat-centric. I know there are tons of combat people, but we're paying for this game too. It's like saying that there's real content in the the Mustafar expansion for low CL characters--ie entertainers and crafters. Is there? It's a run-down lava planet that's going to be filled with Jedi and combat monkeys. You know what? Jedi don't usually tip me for ID sessions. Will I go there to seek clients? Probably not 
Message Edited by Metricula on 09-06-2005 08:54 AM
Ikewe wrote:
But your summary of the problems for hybrids is right on the money. With my rifle I can occassionally outdamage the CL 80's in my group. It makes their jobs that much harder and since they have removed the "peace" option it's harder for me to disengage as well.
Just a little tip..What you can do is set F1 to target yourself (if F1 is not already set to target self). Then when your in combat and need to stop hitting your target, hit F1 then Esc a few times.
On your next auto attack you will attempt to hit your target (youeself), the game wont let you, and stop fireing (however you dont exit combat) That should help a bit.
--Qilue-UCW-- wrote:
Ikewe wrote:
But your summary of the problems for hybrids is right on the money. With my rifle I can occassionally outdamage the CL 80's in my group. It makes their jobs that much harder and since they have removed the "peace" option it's harder for me to disengage as well.
Just a little tip..What you can do is set F1 to target yourself (if F1 is not already set to target self). Then when your in combat and need to stop hitting your target, hit F1 then Esc a few times.
On your next auto attack you will attempt to hit your target (youeself), the game wont let you, and stop fireing (however you dont exit combat) That should help a bit.
That only works if you have selected an auto attack, I don't. If I were to stop and try fight a higher level mob I would be dead before I could set auto attack. Removing the /peace command was daft, in RL we can choose whether to stay and fight or escape. If this is meant to be based on RL rolls, then we should still have the option to select peace and escape. Also if you out damage everyone else, you attract all the agro and again, will be dead before being able to self target, thanks to having a lower HAM.
I've always been a hybrid. It doesn't make me any less dancer, or any less fencer. Its just that I have the capacity to do both.
The last time I attempted "The Double," I left my server, and quit. It may have been different if there was more to cantina professions than just...the cantina. But since nobody is going to take the responsibilityfor giving me things to do when the cantina is empty, it means I have to take the responsibility myself, and find it in other things.
Not firing at the target isn't the problem. It's getting hit by the target before the group can pull it off. I had to give up all my scout skills so I'm not as fast on terrain as I was pre-cu. And some targets are "spliterz" in that they can shoot you through walls orat great distance.
--Qilue-UCW-- wrote:
Just a little tip..What you can do is set F1 to target yourself (if F1 is not already set to target self). Then when your in combat and need to stop hitting your target, hit F1 then Esc a few times.
On your next auto attack you will attempt to hit your target (youeself), the game wont let you, and stop fireing (however you dont exit combat) That should help a bit.