Dancer Archive
Thread: Levelers' Guide to Dance
Levelers' Guide to Dance:
Master Dancers, Grouping, Bandflourishes, and Musicians
There are great Dancers that have shaped what this Profession means and how we should conduct ourselves. While I do not count myself as one of these great Masters, I was lucky enough to learn at many of their feet. It makes me a little sad that so many of you have gotten to the level of Novice Dancer with out learning these common rules and courtesies, it was training with these Great Masters that made me sure I wanted to join their ranks. The Dancers that taught me made me love this class and through that, the game. I still do not consider myself to be of the caliber of those that trained me, but I do hope I can pass along some of their wisdom.
Now, those of you that know me know I am extremely kind to AFKers, Hologrinders, and Buff-only Dancers. I am much more lenient than many of you feel we should be. Well, for the first time ever I have to admit I was as shocked and appalled as the prissiest of our kind when a couple of these “new style” Dancers decided to let me have it. I was truly baffled and tried to explain how things worked and what my motivations were, but they would have none of it. It took me going over pages and pages of chat logs to understand where they were coming from afterwards… and sadly it was all a large misunderstanding that could have been avoided if they had known these simple things:
People watch Master Dancers over levelers. It is a fact. A Master can heal faster, buff better, and often provide better company than a leveler due to practice. If a Master Dancer should walk into your cantina and offer to group with you, bow down. You are lucky to have come across someone kind enough to allow you a little XP. A Master Dancer does not owe you the xp, but if the Master will not group with you, you will not gain any XP from the people who come in to be healed.
A Master Dancer cares nothing for XP, they are doing you a favor by grouping with you, not the other way around. Try to remember this. Sometimes a Master Dancer will be willing to group with you, but will need to continue to perform buffs. They can perform their buffs just as well not being grouped with you, but they are being nice. Say thank you and let them do their buffing in peace. If you need training while the Master is buffing, do not get huffy if they ask you to wait. You cannot teach while dancing and this is not a good reason to interrupt a buff.
Sometimes a Master Dancer will come in with a hunting group or guild. If they leave their party to come join your group briefly, say thank you. They are being kind enough to give you some XP from their friends. Do not give the Master Dancer a hard time about breezing through. Do not ever send back a tell saying “I’m sorry, we’re full.” Try to remember, this Dancer is doing you a favor. If you should choose not to open a spot to accept this Dancer’s generosity, say instead “Thank you very much for the offer, unfortunately I can’t open a spot to accept this favor. I apologize for our rudeness and hope I will be able to dance with you sometime in the near future.”
If a Master Dancer says they will accept bandflourishes, they are being nice. It is a privilege that would normally go to the highest ranking Dancer. The person performing the bandflourishes controls the performance. This would normally be done by the person with the most experience and eye for choreography. If the Master Dancer has agreed to let you command the performance, this is a great honor. Not only will you be the person controlling the show, you will also receive an XP bonus.
It is not polite to bandflourish while leveling unless you are invited to do so. Unlike a Master Dancer, a leveler does gain something from bandflourishing (XP), so it is considered rude. The only person that receives experience for a bandflourish is the Dancer performing the flourish. All other dancers accepting bandflourishes will still perform the flourish and spend action, yet they will receive no XP. Again, the same rules do not apply for Master Dancers as they no longer need XP.
If you join a group that is bandflourishing, do not complain about it. Ask if you may stand to the side and turn them off. If they say yes, say thank you and quietly move out of their way. You will still share all Entertainment Healing XP and a Dance XP bonus even if you are in a side room and no one is directly watching you.
If it seems appropriate, you might ask if you could be allowed to perform the bandflourishes for the group. If the higher dancers agree to it, say thank you and ask for any tips or advice they might have for you to improve your performance. Many high level dancers enjoy passing on their techniques and there is always something new you might learn. If you have prior knowledge of anything they decide to share with you, say thank you and keep it to yourself unless asked. It will be much more useful to you later on to learn all that you can rather than prove how much you know now. Try saying “oh really?”, “how interesting!”, or even a “like so?” if you feel like you can properly display the technique. It does not matter so much if this is something you already knew, there is always room for improvement and you might miss that opportunity should you be too eager to prove yourself. Beyond that, it’s just bad form.
If you should decide to join a performance with out requesting an XP opportunity, ask where you should stand and which base dance to perform. Make sure you have /bandflourish on and enjoy the experience. Pay attention to the techniques, they may ask you to take a turn. Watch your group chat carefully, they may give you instructions to /changedance or perform a particle effect from the techniques line.
The group xp bonus only comes from others dancing. Grouping anyone that is not actively dancing will give you zero XP bonus. It is polite to invite a healer into your group so that they can see all groupmates’ action level easily. If another Dancer should come along and the group is full, it is normal for the healer to drop out. Most healers will offer to do so on their own, but make sure this is understood when the group invitation is sent. It is also common courtesy to “kick” any AFK or LD dancers to open a spot for a live Dancer, even if they are animating.
If you are grouped with a Master who is buffing, please ask them before inviting anyone to receive a grouped passive buff. Most Master Dancers have some kind of particular way they like to incite a tip and this process is negated if you just invite any old Joe that should come along. Likewise, should a grouped Master Dancer ask to have their patrons invited to the group for a passive buff, do it with a quickness. Remember, you are lucky that a Master Dancer has been kind enough to help you with your XP.
Once you no longer need Dancing XP, you no longer need to flourish. After you have trained both the Techniques and Knowledge lines (4-0-4-0), your only XP driven motivation for grouping will be Entertainment Healing Experience. If you are primarily a Cantina or Events Dancer (most of you will be), you will max out on dance xp long before EH. Once you do max out or reach your requirement, it is polite to turn /bandflo on. We do this so that Masters who have been kind enough to group with you can drop down to a lower dance and command the performance. Or, you may offer to drop down to a lower dance and let lower level dancers who still need Dancing XP /bandflourish you. This is normal. This is nice. This keeps us pretty.
The show must go on. At all times, be aware of any attempt to put on a real performance. If a few Dancers come into your group and try to put on a Synchronized performance, move out of the way. It doesn’t matter if you were there first. If you are having the Solo experience of dancing with /bandflo off, move to the side so that grouped performers might still be allowed their Social experience as the Devs intended. Do not allow yourself to drift into their area, but stay off to the side where you will still continue to receive XP at the same rate.
If you should wander into a Cantina where a performance is going on, move to the side and stay out of their way. If the performing Dancers are kind enough to invite you into their group, join and ask if there are any instructions. If you have come in with a Hunting Group, drop out of the team so that you will be able to accept an invitation. You may let the performers know that you have left your hunting group so that you may still heal but are willing to join their performance and share your XP.
Musicians are to be respected, much of the above holds true for interacting with Musicians as well. If a Great Bandleader has allowed you an opportunity to group and share Entertainment Healing XP, again, bow down. You are in the presence of a great artist. Musicians spend a lot of time perfecting their performances. Many of them have elaborate pieces and take great care to perfect their timing. If you have been allowed to join their group, be polite. It is normal for Dancers to stand in front of Musicians, but make sure you do not block them from view. While Musician is primarily a Sound Based profession, they share many of our Visual aspects. Most Musicians prefer to be seen.
Common setups are: Band setup near the Bar area with Dancers in the front a bit off to the side, Band on Stage with Dancers on the floor, or Dancers on the Stage with Musicians on the floor. Be cognizant of which type of venue you are in and what looks appropriate. If you are unsure, ask. Always listen to the band and make sure your dance is appropriate for the song being played. If the band stops, stop dancing.
You do not have to follow these common rules and courtesies, there is no one that will enforce them and I am aware that many players choose to be very selfish and rude no matter what class they play. I do humbly ask that as a Dancer, you will at least learn these things and understand that many of us think they should be and stay the norm. In the end, you are free to Dance however you see fit, but please keep these guidelines in mind when you go out as a Dancer. Even if you don’t want to play nice this way, please try to be understanding of those of us who do.
This is great. 5 stars. It almost sounds a little pompous, with all the honoring and stuff, though. LOL. Otherwise, however, what you say is absolutely true, especially the parts about the entertainment healing experience.
I think it was about a month ago, I was trying to perform in the Theed Cantina. As everyone well knows by now, I like to listen to the ingame music while I dance. I was part of a group, helping them out with dancing/musician/healing experience. And, it got to the point where the band was playing 3 different songs (that's been my holy crusade for a month now). So, I started asking if they could kindly get back to just one song. My request eventually escalated into an argument because I was obviously making an unreasonable request. *rolls eyes* At one point, one of the members of the group told me that it didn't matter, that I should just shut my music off and it's better for experience this way.(untrue, of course) At which point, being exasperated, I simply told them that I no longer needed experience and that I was doing them a favor. I promptly disbanded from the group and kept on dancing. A few moments later people started complaining, "where did all the healing experience go?" that they so desperately needed. I did my duty and sent /tells to the inquiring minds, and told them that the patrons were watching ME, because I was the Master there and I healed better. Of course, some asked me to rejoin the group. I said, sure...start playing ONE song and I will. So, they did, and I rejoined. LOL.
Ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
Drygo wrote:
It almost sounds a little pompous, with all the honoring and stuff, though. LOL.
Gawd I know! I felt like a huge prissbutt writing it too *blush*, but I really feel like it needs to be said and this is the way I was taught. 
I'm normaly more of your traveling laid back Dancer, but I've always maintained a lot of respect for those of us that are able to play this role to the hilt. This holds true for PvP Master Dancers, Hunt Master Dancers, and Guild only Master Dancers as well I believe.
We all like to be treated with respect and allowed to have our fun. 
Allow me to add in my 2 cred:
People watch Master Dancers over levelers. A complete and utter lie. Patrons watch the dancer that is attentive to them. You work hard, you greet at the door, you sustain the converstaion, and you'll get watched and outbank a master who doesn't EVERY TIME. Maybe not with everyone, but chances are if a patron is looking at a boorish master over you, then he or she neither respects you, nor the master, and will probibly not tip either. You want to bandflourish now and then? Go ahead. She shouldn't be in exotic all the time anyway. If the master doesn't like it, she can break away from you. As Panthu points out, she doesn't need to be there. You do have to be there, and if the Madame is not carrying on like the monarch butterfly she is, she deserves to get her wings clipped. If she can't work the room as good as you can, then its time for her to learn what she should have when levelling. You don't have to be nasty about it to a master, but don't let group politics interfere with giving the patrons attentive service.
It is not polite to bandflourish while leveling Just depends on the context. At a player event? The emphasis is on the showmanship. Usually there will be some kind of arrangement as to the choreography. If you bring your troupe out and you let strangers inside, then its your own fault if they screw it up. At the cantina levelling up? That's a different story. Be in charge of your own performance, and let the others be in charge of theirs. /bandflo if you want, but go to the jar too often and you'll get shut out.
If you join a group that is bandflourishing Then its probibly not a very serious group. Just play it by ear and ask. If you don't like the answer, then do your own thing, but you'll get kicked if you interfere with the troupe's performance.
The group xp bonus Now if you are at a player event, then you are not there to gain XP. If you do, great, but you are there to give a good performance. Clients can pay good money for a tight act, but not if you are going to be disruptive...because if you are, then you probibly won't be invited back to a player event.
Once you no longer need Dancing XP Then go where you are needed. You don't especially need huge groups at this point, but you do need to be where the demand may be. This is your "Journeyman" stage in labour terms.
The show must go on. And how! Just make sure you are performing for the right people. If the group cares more about talking in groupchat than with the patrons, they are more of a burden than an assett. Let them be boring at center stage, and take a side table, greeting every patron with your best skills. Will it tick off the main group? Probibly. But then again, they weren't doing their job, now were they? Because you have to understand that its the patrons that must, MUST come first.
Musicians are to be respected, Try and do a dance to their song...aka no poplock to Ballad. Also, try and get them to play songs that go with your dancing. Tip them if you have to. Nothing irons out differences of opinion like sharing the wealth...but I warn you. Never, never NEVERcompare tips with your coworkers. Nothing good can come of it.
Remember girls (and guys too), it is YOU who has the responsibility for your own career. Don't do anything without asking your group, but don't feel like you have to accept their answer if you feel it will hinder your mission, and that mission is to give EVERY patron, be it the 50cred novice, to the 50k weaponsmith mogul the same attentive service as the Emperor himself. Groupchat can be a bad habit to get into. Save it ONLY for technical matters (/changedance, /changesong, can you train me?, can I take over /bandflo, etc.). Its just as much your group as it is theirs, but do know that carbosyrup does more than sarlacc bile in the business we are in. Remember, we are in the hospitality business, and it pays to be hospitable.
I'm just gonna reply to this one as it really got me. This isNOT a lie. There is a small percentage of combat classes that will come into the cantina to chat while they heal and maybe they will watch the most attentive dancer, but 9 times out of 10 when I am looking for BF/mind wound healing I go for the Master or whoever has the highest tag on if a Master isn't available. This is what almost all combat players do whether PVE or PVP. The objective is to get in and get healed quick and get back on the field, not to chat it up while healing for 35 minutes. The times that I like an "attentive" dancer over an AFK master is whenI amhanging out in a cantina. This is NOT when I have mind wounds/BF. I also have a Master Musician so I know very well from the praise tells I get that people are excited when a master is there to heal them. Ever try getting rid of 657 BF from a novice entertainer? You could paint your livingroom before it finished
PoetDancer wrote:
Allow me to add in my 2 cred:
People watch Master Dancers over levelers. A complete and utter lie. Patrons watch the dancer that is attentive to them. You work hard, you greet at the door, you sustain the converstaion, and you'll get watched and outbank a master who doesn't EVERY TIME. Maybe not with everyone, but chances are if a patron is looking at a boorish master over you, then he or she neither respects you, nor the master, and will probibly not tip either. You want to bandflourish now and then? Go ahead. She shouldn't be in exotic all the time anyway. If the master doesn't like it, she can break away from you. As Panthu points out, she doesn't need to be there. You do have to be there, and if the Madame is not carrying on like the monarch butterfly she is, she deserves to get her wings clipped. If she can't work the room as good as you can, then its time for her to learn what she should have when levelling. You don't have to be nasty about it to a master, but don't let group politics interfere with giving the patrons attentive service.
Why yes dear, they'll watch the master....but they'll tip the attentive one. As far as masters are concerned? I can count on two hands the master dancers I respect out of the hundreds I have encountered on two servers. Its too easy to get the title. Its too rare to see the title justified. Now player events are another thing entirely, and there is where one may need to be discreet. But in the NPC Cantinas? Its fair game. As a result, I'm not going to alter my performance simply because a master tells me. If they kick me? I'll simply go solo.
But anyway, I just have to say that my spin is but one opinion on the subject of group dynamics, and Panthu's is another. But let me tell you, Panthu, some groups can be too demanding. For example, I got in trouble with two master dancers because I was "falling too much," and they told me I should either hold a weapon, or they'd kick me. Needless to say I took the liberty of leaving the group myself. Because I'll still get XP whether I'm with the group or not, and its not imperative that I master right away. For others, it may be different.
It all goes to whether or not you'd rather cater to your group's needs, or your patron's needs. Sometimes you can cater to both, but in many instances, one has to make a choice. Because I'll tell you, I got the daggers plenty of times from group members who thought I was out of line for doing tableside service while they were in a line, or chatting with the customers at the expense of chatting about whatever in /groupchat. Its one of the reasons I left my old server. When faced with a choice like that, I'll choose the patrons each time and EVERY TIME. Because we are also competitors in a sense too.
Because from the moment I enter the cantina to the moment I leave, I'm thinking about ways to amuse the patrons, because they are the ones that pay the maitenance pool. Group members, while they are great to be with, have their own interests at heart. So all I'm saying is be shrewd, and show deference when deference is prudent. However, also know that a dancer is in charge of his or her own career.
Well, I agree that we all have to make choices and we have to play the way we want to play. I think if faced with the situation Poet was regarding the falling, I'd get annoyed too, and probably leave. I personally think it's great that she cares so much about the patrons. I really think we'd all be a bit better off if our playstyles were more in tuned with actually entertaining. But, I also think that entertainingisn't always about chatting the customers up. Sure, I like to do that. But, for me, entertaining is much much more about being aesthetically pleasing. And, I entertain, through dance, more by dancing appropriately to the music, making my flourishes look good, and using a lot of techniques. That's because it's fun for me and I want to actually BE entertaining. And, I've gotten several compliments before about it. Just the other day somebody /tell'ed me to ask, "Why do you look so much better than all the other dancers out there?" In not so many words, I basically explained that I don't go afk and I WANT to look good. So, I do. And, yes, I'll have conversations with people and enjoy doing so. But, for me, entertaining is about looking good. And, that's where I think I get most of my random /tips from. And, that's why I enjoy doing /bandflo's so much when I get the chance. I generally will not /bandflo in most of the popular Cantinas because I know most people are just there to level. But, I have to admit, whenever I get the chance, and people are agreeable,I do it. Because, even if I look good, that doesn't even compare to the entire troupe looking (and sounding) good! And, I think this is also why I get SO bent out of shape when musicians are playing more than one song. I just canNOT stand it! lol And, yes, as a Master Dancer, I will use whatever small bits of power I have to get them to play one frickin song!!! (As told from my example above). If I have to flaunt being the one that provides the entertainment healing experience I will. I like to think that I'm making the Cantina environment more pleasant by doing so, and I don't really think that I'm asking too much!
Which brings to the point of disagreeing with PoetDancer about one thing here--I do really think the vast majority of people who come into the Cantinas for mind and battle fatigue healing will seek out the highest level of dancer/musician they can find. After all, the levelling obsession is not unique to the entertainers. The faster a hunt group comes in and gets their wounds healed, the faster they can go right back out and gain experience or money from lair missions. There will be a select few who will watch the lower level dancers, either out of kindness, or because they are doing a good performance. I like to think that happened to me a few times before I reached master because I perform well. But, most people are just out to get the best bang for their buck, and they'll seek out that master for the healing, thereby making the big group miss out if the Master is not in with them. I think it's good that PoetDancer knows how to truly entertain her customers. And, she will get the healing xp and the tips. But, let's face it, the vast majority of people levelling may not quite have as much of a knack for it. And, they need that healing xp. And, if they're not willing to be respectful of the Dancers who have been doing it for a long time and want to make the Cantina a pleasant place to visit (by only playing one song and not spamming, to name but two examples), then they need to get with the program! Because, like I said, if I'm in there working or just dancing, and the group acts like a collective bunch of freakin' idiots, I won't stay in the group, and they won't get that experience. Nor do I think they deserve it.
edit: got the screenies from Ahsidh, you know you can just type /b 1 instead of /bandflo 1
Message Edited by Pappi on 04-25-2004 11:39 PM
kirah_ashlin wrote:
Panthu, I appreciate the time and effort you took to create this, but I must say that it makes me feel like some social elitist as a master dancer.
Wow, you think so? This is how I treated masters as a leveler... and I think it's just kind of fun. I'm not snobby at all, but I do like to pay respect to Masters... I just think it's nice. When I started, there was still a lot more of this kind of advise floating around. So it was easy to pick it up.
I don't think a Master should tell a non-Master to equip a weapon or get kicked, but I also don't like non-Masters being rude and bossy to Masters. It really does just seem like a shame to me that we are so lacking "Role Models" now that everyone is hiding out in the PC Cantinas.
NPC Cantinas used to be a ton of fun, I think that's still possible... but non-leveling dancers need to come back and levelers need to know how to treat them so they won't go hiding again.
But...
The more important thing was just supposed to be how and why the XP situation works. The particular situation Pappi ratted me out on was that I said I would accept bandflos and told a new Dancer how to do them. After that, I didn't really have much to do with it. It was just a fun chatty group half full of AFKers and stragglers. Until the whole thing went nasty and I was accused of "stealing" XP and being "selfish"... it wasn't true of course, I was just being my plan old ditzy self, but when I tried to explain why I liked to let lower level Dancers bandflourish me and how it was a normal and intended part of the game, I was accused of having some kind of weird XP stealing motivation.
Which is of course, impossible. I also got yelled at for not training a leveler fast enough and was the only Master in the group when they were inviting everyone that came in and saying that it helped the XP and told non-ents to "just watch the Master for a buff"... if it had really offended me, I would have left. It just didn't occur to me till afterwards that they didn't know I was helping their XP. When the confused dancer kicked me out of her group, I was still gaining EH at the same rate (not maxed on TC yet) so I really was helping them while grouped.
I trained for free, let them get EH from people watching me, and didn't even complain when they gave away my buffs. I didn't even really understand how little they knew until after the leader freaked out on me so badly. There were other grouped people explaining bandflos and enjoying them... there were also leveling medics grouped ... so I just really didn't think much of it.
It's not stickied yet, if you would like to write a less snobby guide I can put that up instead... I don't really like it when people think we are snobs. 
I just wanted to help explain things to avoid anyone else having to go through this, Masters and levers alike.
Edit: The complaint was mostly that I was encouraging bandflourishes while people were AFK... at least that was some of it, really everything I said just made her mad, lol, it was like we were speaking two different languages... and this was after being grouped for three hours. o.0
Message Edited by Panthu on 04-26-2004 06:33 AM