Dancer Archive

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Xyrdre wrote:

But to do that, we need to discover what it is that makes us tick in the entertainer professions. Or rather, be able to explain to someone else (the devs) just what it is that really is the hook for us, so that they can approach a revamp armed with the knowledge of what will indeed make us happy, and provide that rich, rewarding and engaging gameplay that we all crave. That's the elusive answer that I'm searching for... the underlying psychological motivation that looks to be appeased when we play characters who aren't shooting or crafting, and what kind of setting would appeal to those goals.

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For me it's fairly straight forward. When I decided to start playing SWG it was with the intention of being a part of the Rebel Alliance. But I wasn't that interested in being just a soldier with a blaster. Sure it's fun and exciting to blast things but it can also get tiring. But as an entertainer I had the opportunity to make an even bigger contribution. Not only could I heal the weary minds of my fellow soldiers but I could listen in on conversations and report on Imperial activities. If we were targeting someone specific, I could keep a watchful eye on the door. Unfortunately that's difficult and often impossibleto do in today's climate. In order for that to really work then there has to be someone I can send the spy information to. There has to be someone who passes messages to me telling me what I am looking for andI have to periodically actually find out the required information. I didn't choose this game just because it offered an exciting new possibility for the social player. I chose it because it's Star Wars. I want to feel like I'm part of the GCW not just someeye candy in the cantina. Obviously this isn't going to appeal to everyone.. heck it might not even appeal to the majority but it's what I wanted.

Ikewe, Master RIfles Shadowfire (*hesitant Master Dancer)

Real simple! Stop the Spam and AFK in the Cantina.

Get rid of Speech from Macros and make dancing/music Stop if someone goes AFK.

THAT would solve a majority of our problems right there, That simple change.

The Theed cantina on Eclipse gets so bad sometimes that customers walking in have to spend 5 mins adding names to their ignore lists before a spatial conversation is even a remote possibility.

When we talk to them about it their response is invariably Well just put me on ignore. That misses the point that its not US who suffer the most from the spam. Its the customers who come in and get hit with a tsunami of spam so huge and rapid that a lot of them despair and dont even Try to weed out the names for their ignore list. We end up forced to try and communicate with single individuals in Tells if we want to converse at all. The fact that the spammers force us into Tell conversation doesnt seem to qualify as harassment or any other undesirable conduct to the CSRs.

Dancers coming in and looking for a group often encounter a full group of dancers AFK, Including the leader who Macro invites by targeting a Chair.

We've had a problem the last few days with a fellow spewing huge,long Spams for his Vendor every 5 seconds.

The Really depressing thing is that we have Dancers dancing in small groups of 2-3 because HE'S taking up a spot in the 'Entertainer' group. Some of us will refuse to be a member of a group containing Spammers.

STOP the SPAM and STOP the AFKS

To a large extent as long as Those continue to exist, the other things we'd like to have become moot issues.

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Ikewe wrote:

For me it's fairly straight forward. When I decided to start playing SWG it was with the intention of being a part of the Rebel Alliance. But I wasn't that interested in being just a soldier with a blaster. Sure it's fun and exciting to blast things but it can also get tiring. But as an entertainer I had the opportunity to make an even bigger contribution. Not only could I heal the weary minds of my fellow soldiers but I could listen in on conversations and report on Imperial activities. If we were targeting someone specific, I could keep a watchful eye on the door. Unfortunately that's difficult and often impossibleto do in today's climate. In order for that to really work then there has to be someone I can send the spy information to. There has to be someone who passes messages to me telling me what I am looking for andI have to periodically actually find out the required information. I didn't choose this game just because it offered an exciting new possibility for the social player. I chose it because it's Star Wars. I want to feel like I'm part of the GCW not just someeye candy in the cantina. Obviously this isn't going to appeal to everyone.. heck it might not even appeal to the majority but it's what I wanted.

Ikewe, Master RIfles Shadowfire (*hesitant Master Dancer)

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This is exactly why I asked the question How do you dance? Before we can honestly get a good idea of what dancers want in our revamp you first have to get an idea of what it is we do WHILE we are dancing.

If I was writing up goals for the revamp they would look like this;

1) Enhance the chat experience for us. (Clear up recursive spam by removing the ability for an AFK character to speak at all. Allow CSRs to remove spammers.)

2) Give us new dancer specific emotes.

3) Make a visable difference between male and female dance styles.

4) Give us a way to earn dancer specific loot by performance alone.

5) Make our skill 100% passive in nature including buffing so combat players are not forced to group with us or ask permission for us to enhance them. This breaks a lot of the imersion of being a dancer. However! There needs to be a way for combat players to pay to see us prior to the starting of any healing or buffing. Entertainers should get a gig at a cantina, hotel or theater first (maybe a ballot box type thing they check into.) Audience members should pay the cantina, theater or hotel an enterance fee/cover charge. Then you can tie our earnings as an entertainer into things like credits per point of EH earned, number of audience members watching us and length of time people stay in the cantina to watch us perform. A system like this will reward the better entertainers.

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Else-Whira wrote:


4) Give us a way to earn dancer specific loot by performance alone.

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Here's an idea I'd like to see. Remember how we said we'd like to be able to do something with our excess Dance, Music, or Ent Healing xp? Well they gave us the dance and song that we have to "buy" after the Theater Manager quest, but that wasn't quite what we envisioned. For one thing, the cost was way too high for a single dance or song. And of course there's always Village xp that you can convert your entertainer type xp into.

What I'd really like to see is a sort of prestige system that's almost like the faction perks that Rebels and Imperials can purchase. We've talked about getting a "fame rating" or similar mechanic into the game, but what if they did it simply with experience?

Come up with a series of rewards that can be purchased with dance, music, or ent healing xp. These don't have to be coding-intensive rewards like songs and dances (though that would be nice). They could be things like special items of clothing, skill-enhancing attachments, limited-use self-buffing items, decorative things for our houses, or the long-desired props for us to perform with.

Further, limit the rewards based on the level of the profession. For example, there could be a tier of rewards that can be purchased for x amount of xp, by novice musicians and dancers. There could be another tier that cost x amount of xp but can only be purchased by those who have at least one "title" in dance or music (i.e., at least four boxes in one of the trees). Then another tier of rewards available to people with two trees, three trees, and finally master. The same could apply to entertainer.

This allows special bonuses for those who have devoted more skill points to the profession, without making the cost in xp excessive (I believe this is perhaps why they made the quest song and dance cost so much xp - so that novice musicians and dancers couldn't obtain it, since you had to have at least four boxes in one tree in order to stockpile the 400k xp required). But you still allow the casual entertainer, or the beginning/novice entertainer, to achieve some rewards if they wish to purchase them.

The benefits of doing something like this include:

- Reward dancers and musicians for doing what they do - performing
- Encourage seasoned performers to keep performing for the public, in order to acquire xp (especially if healing xp is used)
- Give those who have no interest in the Force Sensitive trees (which don't offer much to entertainers anyway) an option more suited to their playstyles
- Provide entertainers access to some of the things they currently can't afford in most server economies, like skill attachments and cool house decorations

Just an idea, and yes it's totally built on some of the proposals that the creative geniuses in our forum have long supported - the fame system, dance props, etc.

Message Edited by Ka_ren on 02-08-2005 11:42 AM

Message Edited by PoetDancer on 02-08-2005 12:01 PM

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Xyrdre wrote:

.......

But to do that, we need to discover what it is that makes us tick in the entertainer professions. Or rather, be able to explain to someone else (the devs) just what it is that really is the hook for us, so that they can approach a revamp armed with the knowledge of what will indeed make us happy, and provide that rich, rewarding and engaging gameplay that we all crave. That's the elusive answer that I'm searching for... the underlying psychological motivation that looks to be appeased when we play characters who aren't shooting or crafting, and what kind of setting would appeal to those goals.

I now turn the floor over to the Dancer community, for comment and discussion, as desired.

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Let's see if I can try to explain this.

Psychological view:

I, became a dancer because of the social aspect of the profession. I was tired of the grinding, camping, race to have the best loot in the game. All MMO's up until SWG was about levels and acquiring the best equipment or spells. It required long hours of camping. That left very little time for a social aspect in the game (except while you camped you talked but didn't allow much of a roleplay). The entertainer profession allowed those individuals seeking a more fulfilling social aspect and roleplaying in a game while at the same still have some of the old aspects in MMO's still available (after all, we are creatures of habit).

Most entertainers are very content with using the game as a social avenue to relax and enjoy the game. Entertainers are the ones that you see in a significant number at player events and are the ones that are requested the most, which indicates the importance that the community sees for entertainers. Entertainers are content with being social butterflies but also having a role in the game. Without a role, we lose a purpose and the game will become nothing more but an expensive chatroom with eyecandy.

Basically, entertainers want to have fun, relax, and enjoy the social aspect of the game. They also want a purpose in the game at the same time. If the either one is taken away, you will bascially lose these entertainers from the game.

Sociological view:

The ability to heal BF and mind wounds gave entertainers an importance in the game. Players had to rely on entertainers for support just as they relied on medics for healing and crafters for equpment. When thegame was in its infancy, people took time to relax and enjoy the game, including chatting in a social atmosphere of the cantina.

But as like all other MMO's, the race for the best equipment and reach the 'end game' would take place. That 'end game' would be the jedi profession and then came forth the 'Holo-grind wars'. The social atmosphere that entertainers so heavily relied on in providing their source of entertainment and fun was quelch by afk dancers screaming endless dribble of 'Watch me. I need healing experience.'

The buffs were a temporary salvation but brought the beginning of the end for quite a few entertainers. The high end game took over. No longer was there a slow down in the a game but a rush to do this or get that. Buffs enabled that. A rush to the village. A rush to get the new loot and auction it off massive amounts of credits. Wait time for shuttles and transports pushed down. Wait time for healing or speeding up of healing is follow the 'rush' of do things in the game.

Proposals:

Entertainers need to feel that they have a purpose again. AFK/buffbots takes away the purpose of the ATK entertainer. The removal of macroing a profession has to be removed from the game.

Entertainer content: Combat profession have all the content they need. Entertainersneed content. They need a way to make an income. Many entertainers are content on not being rich in credits but rich in atmomsphere but things in the game do cost credits - clothing, maintenance, art and furniture for one's home or cantina and those CA's. Some of these don't come cheap at all on the galaxy trade forums. Basically combining quests with rewards is the easy way to solve this.

The dancer/musician quest for a new dances/songs was a good start but needs to be expanded upon. I would eliminate the high cost of experience to purchase said stuff (it encourages afking to achieve that experience). Instead, offer a quest system that takes a bit of time to complete and the experience generated over that time will be enough to cover any cost.

Quests idea:

• Troupe - NPC wants to know if a player is a good troupe leader. Player must complete a series of events (gated of course) with a certain number of like entertainers with the use of bandflos.


• Renown - Entertainer must talk with a npc and then perform at said location. After completion of said performance, entertainer recieves and email the next day or two of where there next performance is to be at.


• Helping hand - (factional) Entertainer is given a mission by their faction recruiter to head to a base and heal the mind of wounded soldiers. (can be repeated for faction points)


• Listening - During a performance a patron begins to converse with the entertainer. The entertainer listens sympathically and at the end of the conversation, provides sound advice. If the advice is correct, reward is given


• Undercover agent - (factional) Same as the Listening quest but the entertainer gathers information and then reports to the nearest recruiter.

Rewards:

• Unique clothing that have skill bonuses


• New songs, instruments, effects, props and dances.


• Faction points (missions that are factional for those entertainers that are factional).


• Art/decoration for the home or cantina. (i.e., a holo-jukebox)


• Jewelry with skill bonuses.


• Unique items - a stamina buff crystal (like the health and mind from the village), a limited use cantina camp (to heal bf and apply buffs in the field), treatment cloth that has skill bonuses that can be used to make one article of clothing


• New jewelry - earrings, ankle braclets


• Credits (given in the intermediate missions of the quest, i.e., "You have earned 4000 credits at tips from an appreciative audience.")

Changes for the profession:

• Ability to heal bf in camps. Rates would be extremely reduce and should never equal the bf healing able to be done in cantina. Type of camp, dancer skills and dance would effect the rate but the rate should never be above 75% of capability of what can be achieved in the cantina.


• Ability to buff in camps. As like the above proposal.


• State bonus buffing in lieu of mind buffing. +25 def vs intimidate from a musician or +25 def vs dizzy from a dancer


• Player cantina - owners can purchase a paint scheme to decorate aspects of their cantina (i.e.,wood finish for the bar)


• Combat bonuses in the profession (not all entertainers are strictly entertainers). No major bonuses but something to state not all entertainers are non-combat. +5 def vs dizzy at a master box or maybe a +1 def vs dizzy at each dance technique box and another +2 or 3 at the master box.


• Macroing has to be removed or modified in such a way that it becomes impossible to buff while afk 24/7.


• Bulletins in npc or pc cities. Entertainers can list the time and date of performances in that establishment. Entertainers are limited to having only one active bulletin post. Posts are purged every few days.

That is it for me. Sorry if it is a bit long.

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Hvzeda wrote:
Changes for the profession:

• Ability to heal bf in camps. Rates would be extremely reduce and should never equal the bf healing able to be done in cantina. Type of camp, dancer skills and dance would effect the rate but the rate should never be above 75% of capability of what can be achieved in the cantina.
• Ability to buff in camps. As like the above proposal.
• State bonus buffing in lieu of mind buffing. +25 def vs intimidate from a musician or +25 def vs dizzy from a dancer
• Player cantina - owners can purchase a paint scheme to decorate aspects of their cantina (i.e.,wood finish for the bar)
• Combat bonuses in the profession (not all entertainers are strictly entertainers). No major bonuses but something to state not all entertainers are non-combat. +5 def vs dizzy at a master box or maybe a +1 def vs dizzy at each dance technique box and another +2 or 3 at the master box.
• Macroing has to be removed or modified in such a way that it becomes impossible to buff while afk 24/7.
• Bulletins in npc or pc cities. Entertainers can list the time and date of performances in that establishment. Entertainers are limited to having only one active bulletin post. Posts are purged every few days.

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You can buff in camps... You just can't heal BF there.

There are AFK doc bots on almost every server. They stick them in houses/buildings with an enterance fee.