Dancer Archive
Thread: How Can We Keep Transparency, and Give Us a Game We Feel Comfortable Playing?
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PoetDancer
Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:19 pm
#1
Many here do not enjoy the notion of transparently given mechanics. I have broken the arguments againsttransparency into these basic themes:
1) I can only feel like I do something important in this game if I am responsible for "giving" something to someone.
2) I don't see why anybody will want to tip me if I cannot control who /watches me.
3) I can only be treated with the respect of other professions if I can "do something" valuable.
4) I made a committment in the form of my template that precludes me from doing other things as effectively, and I need a way I can profit from my skills.
5) Nothing I will be able to do will be any different than an unattended character.
6) I am not (female, Twi'lekk, well endowed on the torso slider, a provocative dresser, etc.), and I am at an unfair disadvantage when tips are based on subjective criteria.
7) I paid so much for my skilltapes and clothes to not have some say in who receives the benefits.
8) I am a Master Dancer, and it seems natural I should be paid more to dance than a novice.
I can argue all of these points on the basis of these particular interests do not trump the need to create a simple, intuitive, and common sense distribution of the mechanics, or that there are plenty of other professions that can guarantee the sort of playstyle that this profession has difficulty in replicating.
But this thread isn't about that.
This thread is so we can look at our options at what we can suggest to the developers to keep this intuitive, stress free, and passive way of connecting the show with the mechanics; while at the same time alleiviating our concerns as individual players.
Here are some options:
1) Terminals-- Tweak the mission payouts, scale them to abilities, scale them to what a similar profession with similar skill points would require. Perhaps tweak the requirements regarding how one completes them. Make payment something that is only supplimented by player tips, but is not dependent on them.
Advantages:
a) It has the capacity to pay according to skill level.
b) It does not matter what avatar attributes one possesses.
c) It may even be able to distribute entertainers across the venues and worlds.
d) Long term unattendees won't be able to do them as quickly as us.
e) It gives a direct method for an entertainer to "profit from their skills."
Disadvantages:
a) Nobody actually "gives anything" to anyone.
b)It gives no control over distribution.
c) We can get paid for dancing for nobody.
d)Short term unattendees will still be able to do it.
2) A Non-Performance Mechanic-- Have us do something like IDs that doesn't require starting a dance to give out. Maybe autographs, a bard function, or hosting a game from a "game station."
Advantages:
a) It has the capacity to offer greater bonuses according to skill level.
b) It does not matter what avatar attributes one possesses.
c) It can be tied to skilltapes.
d) It doesn't turn performance into an attempt to sell buffing cycles.
e) Its quick, and everyone gets what they want with speed.
f)It makes us feel like we "give" something to someone.
g) It gives us control of who gets the goodie.
h) Unattendees can't do it.
Disadvantages:
a) It has nothing to do with dance.
b)It may not have much to do with the venues.
c) It requires no actual "entertainment skill" to do.
d) It may create a situation where the economic viability rests in the master's tag and the loot, and makes every lower dancer worthless.
3) Crafting-- Have us make trinkets, sell holovids we record, and produce other things that may or may not offer mechanical benefits to the purchasers in order to create an economic presence on the Bazaars and on vendors.
Advantages:
a) It has the capacity to be a more valuable according to the skill level of the producer.
b) It may also offer a means for novices to participate in the creation.
c) It mimics the things real performers do (studio time, recording sessions, etc.)
d) It makes us feel like we "give" something to someone.
e) It gives us some control over who gets the "goodie."
f) It allows us to maintain an economic presence long after we are done playing, without going unattended.
g) It may even be tied in with skilltapes and such.
Disadvantages:
a) It has nothing to do with performing in a venue for players.
b) It has the capacity tobenefit those who have theloot and the master's tag over any other consideration.
c) It has nothing much to do with "entertainment skill."
d) It may be a cash cow for multi account power players.
e) It has nothing to do with the venues.
f) Artisans craft, and this overlaps with their profession's special appeal.
4) A Transparent Cover Charge-- Basically place an entry fee in cantinas that are staffed, and split the fees amongst the performers.
Advantages:
a) It is tied to performance.
b) It is tied to the audience.
c) It gives equity to all performers, regardless of avatar attributes or skill levels.
Disadvantages:
a) We don't actually "give" something to individual patrons.
b) It may encourage venue camping.
c) If not implemented well, unattendees may get paid for doing nothing.
e) Potential for headaches (patron walks in just as the entertainer is leaving, etc.)
f) It is not tied to levels or skilltapes.
5) A /Watch Monitor-- Basically just another informational tool to allow us to know who is /watching us in particular.
Advantages:
a) It is tied to performance.
b) It is tied to the audience.
c) It gives us information to better understand the dynamics of who is /watching whom.
d) It does not overly compromise transparency.
Disadvantages:
a) Unattendees may not care.
b) We don't actually "give" something, but rather see who exactly is "taking" from us in particular.
c) Doesn't solve the problems of avatar choice on pay equity.
d) Places patrons in the habit of tipping the ones they /watch, rather than tipping the ones that amuse them.
e) It is no guarantee of payment.
f) Places the dancer in a situation where they must /deny to have some control.
g) It may place us in a situation similar to now, where one of our duties will be to manage a patron's time for them.
Look at these for starters. There may be more we can consider.
Else-Whira
Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:14 pm
#2
SW:G is an RPG. The RPG model is that you play a character that progresses. Your character's abilities determine how well it is supposed to do in the game world.
So in my mind the ONLY way to go in an RPG like this is to make a system where character skill gets the player's character it's rewards. HOWEVER... Because of the nature of the MM (massively multiplayer) in MMORPG we also need to consider the difference between equally skilled characters (really in exactly the same manner as with PvP). High end skill enhancements, knowledge of the abilities of the profession and social graces.
So what I would push for is a system where the game rewards entertainers based upon thier skill level. Either through the idea of a cantina manager system, mission terminal system or some other kind of credit from the game system. I think the other aspect, the system for dealing with the MM.. The difference between one master and the next is already in place. The entertainers that are in demand to participate in player created events, asked to come and perform strictly as game mechanic dispensors for combat minded players without fluff are already doing what they do best.
So in my mind the ONLY way to go in an RPG like this is to make a system where character skill gets the player's character it's rewards. HOWEVER... Because of the nature of the MM (massively multiplayer) in MMORPG we also need to consider the difference between equally skilled characters (really in exactly the same manner as with PvP). High end skill enhancements, knowledge of the abilities of the profession and social graces.
So what I would push for is a system where the game rewards entertainers based upon thier skill level. Either through the idea of a cantina manager system, mission terminal system or some other kind of credit from the game system. I think the other aspect, the system for dealing with the MM.. The difference between one master and the next is already in place. The entertainers that are in demand to participate in player created events, asked to come and perform strictly as game mechanic dispensors for combat minded players without fluff are already doing what they do best.
LyteFoot
Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:33 pm
#3
I don't want it passive Sirii and neither do a lot of others. What the heck fun is it being passive, in not being involved in the actions and consequences of your character. We had a good system, not perfect, but good. Now we won't have squat and I'm personally not in this for mini-games, I'm in it for the MMO aspect. If its fine with the rest of the profession to hide in cantinas playing mini-games and registering with stage managers then I'll just hush and move on but thats not an MMO. Thats a single player game played in one room. This is a computer program and incapable with today's technology to gage players by subjective criteria. I play a game to have fun and get rewards for my character, a computer needs objective rules to provide rewards.
I can't speak for anyone else but I had clients who wanted to do business with me. I had customers who paid a lot of credits for me to come to them, I had people who appreciated the way I interacted with them when they were requesting buffs, enough so to come back to me. I have a guild who valued not just my combat abilities and my friendship but also mine and Imaji's buffing bonuses. With a passive system that all goes away and no amount of entertainer only, single player centeric mechanics will replace that.
Your passive approach gives me no options what so ever. With the system we had you had a choice to just not buff and I had a choice to buff and to demand compensation for that buff. You keep harping to remove that choice so you can play a game you find stress free but your options leave no choice for the other play styles.
You keep making up reasons why people wanted an interactive system, reasons slanted to your point of view. You also make up scenarios where people are stressed out and confused by the current system. I can tell you that if it were that stressful and confusing a system it would not have been possible to automate it with the scripting system. The reason it could be automated is because it was straight forward, simple, and repetitive.
The whole reason I want interactive system is because it is control of who benefits from my game time, its just that simple. I play this game to have fun and part of that fun is the negotiation and reputation building process of a character class in demand. Now we will be in demand but unable to control who benefits from our time. Nothing but giving me control over who benefits from my time will make this acceptable and that means passive is unacceptable, period. What broke us was not the "selling of / commands" it was the ability to automate our craft completely with no cost for providing our skills. Doctors, armorsmiths, weaponsmiths, and every other single class in this game sells nothing more than slash commands because that is simply the interface for driving this virtual simulator.
I can't speak for anyone else but I had clients who wanted to do business with me. I had customers who paid a lot of credits for me to come to them, I had people who appreciated the way I interacted with them when they were requesting buffs, enough so to come back to me. I have a guild who valued not just my combat abilities and my friendship but also mine and Imaji's buffing bonuses. With a passive system that all goes away and no amount of entertainer only, single player centeric mechanics will replace that.
Your passive approach gives me no options what so ever. With the system we had you had a choice to just not buff and I had a choice to buff and to demand compensation for that buff. You keep harping to remove that choice so you can play a game you find stress free but your options leave no choice for the other play styles.
You keep making up reasons why people wanted an interactive system, reasons slanted to your point of view. You also make up scenarios where people are stressed out and confused by the current system. I can tell you that if it were that stressful and confusing a system it would not have been possible to automate it with the scripting system. The reason it could be automated is because it was straight forward, simple, and repetitive.
The whole reason I want interactive system is because it is control of who benefits from my game time, its just that simple. I play this game to have fun and part of that fun is the negotiation and reputation building process of a character class in demand. Now we will be in demand but unable to control who benefits from our time. Nothing but giving me control over who benefits from my time will make this acceptable and that means passive is unacceptable, period. What broke us was not the "selling of / commands" it was the ability to automate our craft completely with no cost for providing our skills. Doctors, armorsmiths, weaponsmiths, and every other single class in this game sells nothing more than slash commands because that is simply the interface for driving this virtual simulator.
Panthu
Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:18 pm
#4
That's a good way to break down the things that are often discussed. I'm curious to see this done for the Patron to Ent Flo Request Bonus proposal we saw In Concept a while ago. Care to indulge me? 
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