Dancer Archive
Thread: Do they listen?
Well maybe the devs need to tell us what that vision is, then.
There is a lack of communication of what the devs really see as the role of entertainer... we don't know what they see as our role and they won't tell us what they are planning. Because of that we are forced to discuss things in terms of what WE see our role as being, and as a result, we often, I am sure, go way off on tangents to which the dev response must be, "Cute idea but it doesn't match our vision of what the class should be." It's also been hinted that there is no coherent vision on the devs' side of what we should be either, and perhaps that is part of the problem.
Note that I am not blaming the correspondents here. From what I can tell, the correspondents are privy to some information that perhaps gives them more insight than we are but they clearly are not allowed to tell us some or most of it. And even so I am not sure that they themselves are totally clear on what the vision of the devs is for our class, and probably that's because the devs are not clear on it either.
I'd say what really needs to happen is this, once the CU is done (it won't happen before because they won't have time).
1. The devs need to have an "entertainers" meeting where they sit down with a white board and whoever has a say in entertainers and come up with a coherent "This is how we see entertainers" plan. They have to articulate their vision from the design level, not the implementation level. They need to say whether we are supposed to be healers (there has been indication that we aren't, yet still we have healing skills). They need to figure out where we are now, in their eyes, and where they see us going. Are we there to help keep the cantina lively? Are we there to give buffs? Are we there just as window dressing? What exactly is the role they envision?
2. Once they have articulated the vision and written it up as a design document, they need to share that information with us... not just tell the correspondent and then swear that poor person to secrecy. They need to communicate their vision, a coherent vision arrived at in the first step, with us so we know where we stand. The #1 problem on this board, reading through post after post in thread after thread, is that there is no real understanding of just where we stand, as a class, because the devs don't seem to want to tell us. They'll have to be prepared for flames from whoever doesn't agree with this new vision, but that's to be expected no matter what they say.
3. The next thing they need to do is have a sit-down (they can do it in step 1 if they want but this will probably take a long time) where they figure out what elements of the game as it is currently instituted do not meet with the vision, and what elements of the vision have not been implemented. In short, anything that does not meet with the vision has to be removed from the game, period. At the same time, any elements of the vision that have not yet been implemented in the code, need to get going.
4. This is where some give-and-take can come in -- they may have some ideas about alternative ways to mechanically implement that vision... windows vs. /commands, and so forth. Here is where they should seek our advice, as long-time players... What would be easiest for you? What "plays" the best? What is the most smooth way to do this or that during your performance? Here the correspondent can collate this information and pass it ot the devs.
5. Implement the design. This may take a long time... we should be prepared for that. But at least with the above steps we know where we stand, where the devs stand, and where we are going.
Right now, and for basically the last year plus, we haven't had this. We have no idea what the devs are thinking, and so when they act to implement something that matches their vision but not ours, it feels like "they are not listening." But the real problem isn't that they won't listen... it's that they won't TALK... and tell us what they are thinking and what the logic is behind what they are doing. If they would explain their vision to us in a coherent, well-thought-out post similar to explaining their CU vision (which to my knowledge they never have), maybe this would help dissipate some of the problems we see on thsi very board.
C
Salabar wrote:
As I wade through the ton of posts regarding the CU and the fate of the Entertainer professions, which is starting to look pretty bleak IMO, I'm wondering...do the devs listen to what we have to say in these forums? Do they take into account what we want at all, ordo we always have to just go along with any changes they come up with and like it or leave the game? I'm seriously curious and would appreciate any input or knowledge about this.
Ok, I'll bite.
Yes, the Devs really read the boards. Also, Tiggs and TH live on the boards and make big fat lists to feed to the Devs. Also, Corrs read and compile proposals and lists from the boards and those get to the Devs too.
I know this is true, because I've talked to plenty of Devs about threads in here and they always know what's being said. Another cool thing you get to see a lot as a Corr is your own wording coming down in patch notes or Dev posts, that's always funny. Like, some of the fixes from when Deila came in were in my wording when they hit. Well end up seeing some of Deila's wording in a few months when they start really digging into all the great feedback she gave them I'm sure. When the next DC comes, we'll start seeing a lot of Eshie's wording, it's just funny like that. 
Anyway, that's mostly just addressing problems though. Using our own language to talk back with us. Players very rarely end up dictating design... and there pretty much isn't anything we ever think of that the Devs haven't already considered on some level, but we are allowed a lot of influence over how things come down to us or when.
Player feedback is used more in this game than any other I've ever played or heard about. Usually I think it's really good, sometimes it can be bad if it's slowing down things that need to be happening for the health of the game.
That is somewhat heartening to hear. Thanks
Panthu wrote:
Salabar wrote:
As I wade through the ton of posts regarding the CU and the fate of the Entertainer professions, which is starting to look pretty bleak IMO, I'm wondering...do the devs listen to what we have to say in these forums? Do they take into account what we want at all, ordo we always have to just go along with any changes they come up with and like it or leave the game? I'm seriously curious and would appreciate any input or knowledge about this.
Ok, I'll bite.
Yes, the Devs really read the boards. Also, Tiggs and TH live on the boards and make big fat lists to feed to the Devs. Also, Corrs read and compile proposals and lists from the boards and those get to the Devs too.
