Dancer Archive
Thread: Idea for none combat profs in the CU
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Panthu
Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:07 pm
#1
I have no idea if the CU Devs would consider this right now, but I think that's an awesome idea! It's all about the trade off, and this way the trade off would still be there, but there would be some real rewards for "cross-training."
NalfeinQ
Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:22 pm
#2
Great idea, and like Panthu said, certainly it is another of those oh-so-delicious tradeoffs when considering templates. My worry is this: The CU is designed in such a way that continual 'spamming' of specials is removed. I worry a larger action pool might reenable spamming, at least to a degree, possibly an unbalancing one?
Serae
Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:37 pm
#3
Well that all depends how they balance things....surely it wouldn't be wise for someone to constantly 'spam' attacks if they have far less health than the pure combat classes?
Would make for some interesting choices i think.
Panthu
Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:44 pm
#4
Well, we have cool downs on specials now... so, those would be enforced even if you did have a ton of action.
So, it seems like this would be a nice bonus, but not unbalancing. It seems like it would be very in line with the new way combat is done and fits with the health bonuses nicely.
Rangers/Scouts currently don't get a health bonus either, so they might be interested in either action or mind too.
DanceRulez
Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:05 pm
#5
This could be an interesting idea, although current testing indicates that action drain on dance isn't bad even when flourishing enough to get maximum XP gain (i.e. 1 flo per 10 seconds). I'm at Novice Dancer so far and the only way I can deplete my action is to spam flourish. I don't think if I'll get to advanced or Master dancer unless they activate skill granting on the frogs though.
As far as mind pool, Pappi was trying to grind ID and I think she was mentioning something about using up her mind pool. Maybe ID's could get mind bonuses. For crafters, maybe they could get mind too or a mix of mind and action.
As far as mind pool, Pappi was trying to grind ID and I think she was mentioning something about using up her mind pool. Maybe ID's could get mind bonuses. For crafters, maybe they could get mind too or a mix of mind and action.
Drygo
Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:19 pm
#6
I had a discussion about this a couple weeks ago in one of those huge CU threads. I think it stinks that a hybrid combat player is now much less viable against a player who puts all skills directly into combat. Similarly, I don't like that a master musician/master dancer is quicker at the new buffs than one with only one entertainer mastery. It's as if you have to go all or nothing now, and I hate feeling only half viable as an entertainer/combatant. And, I hate levels. The beauty of this game was it's pure profession based skill system.
But, anyway...as to the topic of this discussion.
I agree, I'd love for entertainers to get some extra action. After all, we dancers are probably way more physically fit than your average pistoleer. Basically, since we're being purposely gimped for not going full fledged combat, I think every profession should get some type of HAM benefit. ID's maybe get extra mind. Crafters may get extra mind, etc. So, at least there would be some incentive for being a hybrid when it comes to combat. You get to choose whether you want a 3000 Health bar...or maybe just 2000, but able to do extra specials because of your dancer training. Makes sense to me. And, it seems fair.
--Qilue-UCW--
Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:26 pm
#7
Drygo wrote:
I had a discussion about this a couple weeks ago in one of those huge CU threads. I think it stinks that a hybrid combat player is now much less viable against a player who puts all skills directly into combat. Similarly, I don't like that a master musician/master dancer is quicker at the new buffs than one with only one entertainer mastery. It's as if you have to go all or nothing now, and I hate feeling only half viable as an entertainer/combatant. And, I hate levels. The beauty of this game was it's pure profession based skill system.
You hit the nail right on the head for me with this.. I have felt this way even before all the plansfor theCU.
Being a Musician/TKM I felt like I was Never I Viable entertainer because I could not give both mind buffs.. and I was not a Viable combatant because I didn'thave the stacked Defence all theother combatants did
Serae
Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:14 am
#8
One of my main concerns with the upcoming CU is that a dancer (or any other none combat prof) / Combat profession template will be pretty much useless. (Or at least much less effective)
This is because a hybrid template will not have the hitpoints of a pure combat template (and probably rightly so), its my understanding that you get more health when you master a combat profession?
Well to remedy this in a way that makes sense I propose that dancers and musicians get extra action upon masteringeach Entertainerprofession.
This would help in several ways:
It would allow pureEntertainers to have a huge action pool thus allowing them to flourish / use effects much more.
Entertainer/Combat Hybridswould have a little of both worlds - Less health than a pure combat template but more action to use special moves -less action than a pure Entertainer but more health.
If the extra action was granted at master levels then it would be a good reason to master the profession and not simply put points into the branch that gives the dances or songs. (Which i get the impression a lot will be doing in the weeks to come)
It kindamakes sense that anEntertainerwould have more stamina (Dancer by physical fitness and musician by...well have you ever dated a musician?)
It would create much more diverse template choices and add extra strength/weakness options
Afterall,a wise man once said that variety is the spice of life (or maybe it was a fortune cookie i read while i was drunk last night)
Perhaps the same could be done for crafting classes but maybe using the mind pool, though i've not done a lot of testing on the CU so ive no idea what the mind pool does. (does it now add to resist bonuses? If so that might help them stay alive during factory runs)
Anyway I hope you like the idea and i welcome comments/ critisism
Message Edited by Serae on 04-12-2005 12:18 PM
Drygo
Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:48 am
#9
--Qilue-UCW-- wrote:
Drygo wrote:
I had a discussion about this a couple weeks ago in one of those huge CU threads. I think it stinks that a hybrid combat player is now much less viable against a player who puts all skills directly into combat. Similarly, I don't like that a master musician/master dancer is quicker at the new buffs than one with only one entertainer mastery. It's as if you have to go all or nothing now, and I hate feeling only half viable as an entertainer/combatant. And, I hate levels. The beauty of this game was it's pure profession based skill system.
You hit the nail right on the head for me with this.. I have felt this way even before all the plansfor theCU.
Being a Musician/TKM I felt like I was Never I Viable entertainer because I could not give both mind buffs.. and I was not a Viable combatant because I didn'thave the stacked Defence all theother combatants did
I know this is off topic and I apologize.
But, when people say it looks more like an EQ level based system they aren't far off the mark. It's as if the devs have now divided us into fighter/cleric/mage/crafter type professions. Only in SWG they are called combat/doctor/entertainer/crafter. If you stick yourself into one of those categories you can be the best fighter or entertainer possible. You are no longer the best Teras Kasi Master, and you are no longer the best Dancer. Because to be the best TKM you have to have another combat profession in order to get your health bar higher. In order to be the best Dancer, you now have to also be a Master Musician so that you can give the quickest buffs. I hate that so much. And, in other games there are hybrid characters that are weaker in both classes and slower to progress, but with a lot of work you can eventually get higher and higher levels that do make you viable. But, now we are capped at the highest as a Master with no place else to go (except Jedi, I suppose). In fact, all the mobs and people are now givennumbers as levels to show their prowess as a fighter. They've kept the core organization of the profession system, but the reality is now that everything is based on levels and classes. And, I don't *want* to see the profession system completely done away with. But, now with this cap of Mastery, you can never be a hybrid again and be as formidable as a double master in your professions of choice.
And moreover, the new devs don't realize how wonderful this profession system was! The one thing that nearly 100% of the population agreed upon was how FAR superior the profession system in this game was compared to the other games out there. It's so maddening!!
Ok...rant's over.
Message Edited by Drygo on 04-13-2005 04:50 AM
Anoewyn
Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:00 am
#10
Aye, I agree Drygo. As a RL dancer, I am tone deaf when it comes to actually producing music myself - yet I don't consider myself as a dancer to be any less inspirational, its just that my skills are honed on a particular form of the performing arts, and because of this specialisation I am that much better for it. One of the things that drew me to SWG was the versatility that you could build into your template. You could bea hybrid and enjoy different types of game play, but also be fully effective, it had great RP value, and it was also unlike any of the other profession systems in other games. It is incredibly maddening that they would sacrifice a system that encouraged uniqueness and individuality in favour of cookie-cutter progress models.
TheSillyOne
Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:04 pm
#11
Serae wrote:
One of my main concerns with the upcoming CU is that a dancer (or any other none combat prof) / Combat profession template will be pretty much useless. (Or at least much less effective)
This is because a hybrid template will not have the hitpoints of a pure combat template (and probably rightly so), its my understanding that you get more health when you master a combat profession?
Well to remedy this in a way that makes sense I propose that dancers and musicians get extra action upon masteringeach Entertainerprofession.
This would help in several ways:
It would allow pureEntertainers to have a huge action pool thus allowing them to flourish / use effects much more.
Entertainer/Combat Hybridswould have a little of both worlds - Less health than a pure combat template but more action to use special moves -less action than a pure Entertainer but more health.
If the extra action was granted at master levels then it would be a good reason to master the profession and not simply put points into the branch that gives the dances or songs. (Which i get the impression a lot will be doing in the weeks to come)
It kindamakes sense that anEntertainerwould have more stamina (Dancer by physical fitness and musician by...well have you ever dated a musician?)
It would create much more diverse template choices and add extra strength/weakness options
Afterall,a wise man once said that variety is the spice of life (or maybe it was a fortune cookie i read while i was drunk last night)
Perhaps the same could be done for crafting classes but maybe using the mind pool, though i've not done a lot of testing on the CU so ive no idea what the mind pool does. (does it now add to resist bonuses? If so that might help them stay alive during factory runs)
Anyway I hope you like the idea and i welcome comments/ critisism
Message Edited by Serae on 04-12-2005 12:18 PM
way awsome idea. I'd actually been thinking about that at work today (because work is boring and i'm addicted to this game). I can't see a reason why this couldn't be implemented.
Ikewe
Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:39 am
#13
Excellent solution to the "gimping" of hybrids! So what's the best way to get this to the devs? Jedi mind tricks don't work very well from what I've found so is there a thread In Concept or In Testing where we could start pushing this idea?
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