Dancer Archive
Thread: New Entertainer ideas for feedback and corr response
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coldreboot
Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:09 am
#1
I was advised to post this here, because of the loss of BF and that it might stir some thought and hope for the future of the Entertainer prof. It is cut straight from my ideas thread on the General Discussion Forum, and I was told posting it here would get the best feedback and possibly be forwarded to the devs by the corr. The NPC city content is only posted here because some of my entertainer ideas directly relate to them. So here goes....
Entertainer
In an effort to make entertainers more fun, and even useful in combat I propose the following:
· One of their elite skill sets is used for a special kind of combat – gladiatorial combat. These would have unique specials when acquired that can be used with melee weapons, and even unarmed. Also there would be a couple of weapon certificates for weapons only useable by players within this class. This could also mean having gladiatorial ‘arenas’ in the game where, one on one duels could take place, as well as being part of the Entertainer quests (i.e. Kill a dewback or npc gladiators in arena combat). Entertainment gladiator skills would be a unique addition to any group, where as the other entertainer skills would concentrate more on making money, and buffs for players.
· Dancers and Musicians would now automatically get tips in a cantina they play in, stretched out over a period of time and dependant on their skill level in Fame. This would be in addition to buffs given to players listening or watching them.
· The buffs would be different depending on what the entertainer is doing, and the power of the buff dependant on their skill as an Entertainer. Dancers give out buffs for action, Musicians for health, watching gladiator bouts gives xp buffs.
· The new entertainer elite profession: Gladiator requires the athletics skill set, and the completed ‘unarmed’ skill set from Brawler.
Click Here for Entertainer Skill Tree
Troupes
Entertainers can now form 'troupes' which can perfom in the market place area, or the cantina of npc cities. NPC tipping works in the same way as combat players group missions. Every member of the troupe receives a pay out equal to the highest level entertainer in the troupe, and all receive bonus xp for being in a troupe.
Busking
Musicians can now 'busk' anywhere in an NPC city. They can give players who listen xp buffs, but they do not gain any xp.
Obviously players can /tip entertainers as much or as little as they want to in both these new abilties.
NPC Cities
Market Place(Bazaar)
Instead of a terminal this would be an area of the city which crafter players can sell their wares. They can place their stall, with vendor stocked with their items. As there is limited space, the vendor and stall would only be there for as long as the player is online. Perhaps to avoid exploiting there would also be some kind of time limit, and cool down period.
In place of the old Bazaar terminals, there would also be two or three perminent NPC stalls, which would act as Bazaar terminals.
Vendor searching could take place on Holonet terminals.
Cantina
Cantinas would now be the site of a new mini-game. Sabaac! This would be a windowed mini-game, only playable in Cantinas. It is a simple card game which money can be gambled on. Similair to the mini-card game in Knights of the Old Republic. There would be a couple of NPCs to paly (AI controlled players) and it can also be played PVP.
Holonet Centre
This is a new building (could easily be the old clone centre building). It houses all the mission terminals for each profession, as well as crafting terminals.
Arena
These can be a stand-alone building, or on a lower level in a cantina. This is where gladiatorial combat is done, and where players can participate or just watch to gain buffs (if the players they are watching are gladiator proffs).
· The only players allowed to fight in an arena are either gladiators, or players duelling one another.
· Gladiators always fight a random spawned mob equal to their combat level. Gladiators can group, in which case the spawned mob will be equal to the CL of the highest member of the group.
· The Arena has a terminal, so players can set up their duels or gladiators can set up their groups etc.
Troupes
Entertainers can now form 'troupes' which can perfom in the market place area, or the cantina of npc cities. NPC tipping works in the same way as combat players group missions. Every member of the troupe receives a pay out equal to the highest level entertainer in the troupe, and all receive bonus xp for being in a troupe.
Busking
Musicians can now 'busk' anywhere in an NPC city. They can give players who listen xp buffs, but they do not gain any xp.
Obviously players can /tip entertainers as much or as little as they want to in both these new abilties.
NPC Cities
Market Place(Bazaar)
Instead of a terminal this would be an area of the city which crafter players can sell their wares. They can place their stall, with vendor stocked with their items. As there is limited space, the vendor and stall would only be there for as long as the player is online. Perhaps to avoid exploiting there would also be some kind of time limit, and cool down period.
In place of the old Bazaar terminals, there would also be two or three perminent NPC stalls, which would act as Bazaar terminals.
Vendor searching could take place on Holonet terminals.
Cantina
Cantinas would now be the site of a new mini-game. Sabaac! This would be a windowed mini-game, only playable in Cantinas. It is a simple card game which money can be gambled on. Similair to the mini-card game in Knights of the Old Republic. There would be a couple of NPCs to paly (AI controlled players) and it can also be played PVP.
Holonet Centre
This is a new building (could easily be the old clone centre building). It houses all the mission terminals for each profession, as well as crafting terminals.
Arena
These can be a stand-alone building, or on a lower level in a cantina. This is where gladiatorial combat is done, and where players can participate or just watch to gain buffs (if the players they are watching are gladiator proffs).
· The only players allowed to fight in an arena are either gladiators, or players duelling one another.
· Gladiators always fight a random spawned mob equal to their combat level. Gladiators can group, in which case the spawned mob will be equal to the CL of the highest member of the group.
· The Arena has a terminal, so players can set up their duels or gladiators can set up their groups etc.
Duga2010
Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:38 am
#2
I like the general idea, but where are the IMage Designers. Other then that sounds like fun. they could even do this type of thing eith Jabba. Let us fight for his glory. Although Gladiator and Dancer don't have much in common.
Ixathra Tarkona
coldreboot
Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:43 am
#3
Duga2010 wrote:
I like the general idea, but where are the IMage Designers. Other then that sounds like fun. they could even do this type of thing eith Jabba. Let us fight for his glory. Although Gladiator and Dancer don't have much in common.
Ixathra Tarkona
Hey Duga, thanks for the response.
This was lifted straight out of my ideas thread, so sorry about the lack of Image design as I explain more about that in there. I actually moved Image design and condensed it into a single column of skills for the doctor. I saw it more as 'plastic surgery' than anything else, and thought that itsnot valuable to warrant its own elite prof. As an addition to doctor though, it has the added boon of making the doctor prof even more interesting.
If this was implemented anyone who was master image designer would log on and find they had the same skills, but in one column of the docotor proff - freeing up most of their skill points, but not penalising their current uses.
Gothywench
Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:00 am
#4
coldreboot wrote:
I actually moved Image design and condensed it into a single column of skills for the doctor. I saw it more as 'plastic surgery' than anything else, and thought that its not valuable to warrant its own elite prof.
I won't even comment on that. It pisses me off too much.
Panthu
Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:20 am
#5
I personally wouldn't mind Image Designer moving in with Doctor. After Dancer, Doctor is my second most mastered prof... then ID... then CM and BE. So, that'd work just fine for me, but I think it would be a hard sell in the ID and Doc forums.
The pros would be: having a mix of uptime and downtime duties in one prof, giving Docs back some downtime purpose, and this could replace the 2nd and 3rd lines in Doc which currently aren't very used.
The cons would be: Loss of titles for IDs, issues about howleveling would be handled - ID is currently veryfast and only done in downtime, Doc is currently veryslow only done in uptime.
Anyway, I like a lot of your suggestions for the performance Ents. I think a cantina salary in addition to player tips is needed for us. I also think mini-games in the cantinas are really needed/wanted by all. The group performance missions are a really good idea - even though we would be "performing" for NPCs, it would still be a social activity because we would be doing it with other grouped players.
I like the gladiator idea a lot, but I think it would make more sense to call it "Exhibition Fighting" because that actually makes some sense with Entertainer. I personally would both participate and watch this. Especially if it was done like the fast paced tournament rounds that they do in Guild Wars.
Overall, you've tried to blend a lot of downtime and uptime options in one skill set offering and I totally support that. I think if we had been given these kinds of options in the first place, we never would have seen the bot epidemic that both Ent Performers and Docs have gone through.
Most people don't bot if they have plenty of fun stuff to do and the ones who do bot are easier to ignore if the rest of us have other options and ways to avoid them.
Edit: Ha, I thought Sti-Fi would have to comment on the ID line, hehe... didn't see it before I posted though. 
I think most IDs would have this reaction and I totally understand it. I just happen to be a Doc too. 
I think most IDs would have this reaction and I totally understand it. I just happen to be a Doc too. Message Edited by Panthu on 07-22-2005 09:24 AM
Gothywench
Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:33 am
#6
Panthu wrote:
Edit: Ha, I thought Sti-Fi would have to comment on the ID line, hehe... didn't see it before I posted though.
Teehee! You know me so well! I actually do love Doc and it was the first profession I mastered. Way before buffs and when we had the whole death-loot your body runs. Doc was *fun* back then. Once the buff craze started, I moved on. I was a Dancer/Doc in the old days. Picked up ID and fell in loooove.
While I love Doc the way it was and would enjoy it again, I do feel quite strongly about it being blended. If anything, I like the idea of a Smuggler/ID, since smugglers should be able to...well..smuggle *people*.
coldreboot
Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:24 am
#7
If you go to the doctor section on my thread, It actually makes alot more sense. I condensed and combined alot of skills for doctor aswell, so while something may take a long time to gain a skill on there is far more to do per skill box.
The trouble with most of my ideas is that they are built one on top of the other, so they really need to be seen as a whole in order to work.
And Panthu, thankyou for a very concise and encouraging post!
Chessack
Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:21 am
#8
Well there are some problems with these ideas, as I see it. (But then I have not been known to generally agree with cold about much of anything so that is no surprise, hehe.)
I'll just grab one:
"Dancers and Musicians would now automatically get tips in a cantina they play in, stretched out over a period of time and dependant on their skill level in Fame. This would be in addition to buffs given to players listening or watching them."
I think this is a hideously bad idea. The whole point of entertainers is supposed to be social interaction. Good entertainers should get tips, bad entertainers should not. It's that simple. People who learn how to interact instead of being social luddites should do well as entertainers. The problem is -- this isn't the case, because the devs have made it so that BAD entertainers (AFKers with no socializing at all, by definition) are just as good at the job as GOOD ones. That's what they need to fix -- make it so that a musician playing a real song gives a buff better than someone who is just AFK macroing. How they will implement this... well that is their problem. I'm an idea Twi'lek, not a programmer. But I don't think the solution is to just be able to AFK macro as much as you want in a cantina and get auto-paid for it. That's going to make it worse, not better.
The final arbriter of what constitutes a "good" or "bad" performance should be as it always has been -- the other players. That is what social classes should be about. The problem right now is that there is no difference -- an AFK novice bot gives a buff equal in quality to an at-keys master, it just takes a teeny bit longer (not enough to matter really). If a GOOD dancer could give things out that a BAD dancer couldn't, then you'd see tips coming in to good dancers... just like good crafters make more money than bad ones (good crafters being, ones that have lots of stock and variety on their vendors, and whose item quality is at the higher end). Quality needs to matter for entertainers... when it does, tips will come. Since it doesn't, people just get their buff (and formerly got their heal) from Joe Skill-less and don't bother to tip.
Now in terms of gladiators and moving ID out of entertainers....
Moving ID -- No! Please no! They just made it so we performers have the skill pts (by reducing ID's cost) that we can apply our own makup and change our hair (or lekku!) before performances... Don't put it into another skill line and make us once again unable to do that. Being able to do your own hair and makeup is fundamental to most professional entertainers (there isn't always a "makeup artist" to do it for you), and we need to be able to do it if we want.
Gladiators -- meh... if they want to add something like this I would not oppose it, provided it did not require my dancer to get into combat in any way, shape, or form, as a dancer. If it's a totally separate skill line I have no problem with it.
C
I'll just grab one:
"Dancers and Musicians would now automatically get tips in a cantina they play in, stretched out over a period of time and dependant on their skill level in Fame. This would be in addition to buffs given to players listening or watching them."
I think this is a hideously bad idea. The whole point of entertainers is supposed to be social interaction. Good entertainers should get tips, bad entertainers should not. It's that simple. People who learn how to interact instead of being social luddites should do well as entertainers. The problem is -- this isn't the case, because the devs have made it so that BAD entertainers (AFKers with no socializing at all, by definition) are just as good at the job as GOOD ones. That's what they need to fix -- make it so that a musician playing a real song gives a buff better than someone who is just AFK macroing. How they will implement this... well that is their problem. I'm an idea Twi'lek, not a programmer. But I don't think the solution is to just be able to AFK macro as much as you want in a cantina and get auto-paid for it. That's going to make it worse, not better.
The final arbriter of what constitutes a "good" or "bad" performance should be as it always has been -- the other players. That is what social classes should be about. The problem right now is that there is no difference -- an AFK novice bot gives a buff equal in quality to an at-keys master, it just takes a teeny bit longer (not enough to matter really). If a GOOD dancer could give things out that a BAD dancer couldn't, then you'd see tips coming in to good dancers... just like good crafters make more money than bad ones (good crafters being, ones that have lots of stock and variety on their vendors, and whose item quality is at the higher end). Quality needs to matter for entertainers... when it does, tips will come. Since it doesn't, people just get their buff (and formerly got their heal) from Joe Skill-less and don't bother to tip.
Now in terms of gladiators and moving ID out of entertainers....
Moving ID -- No! Please no! They just made it so we performers have the skill pts (by reducing ID's cost) that we can apply our own makup and change our hair (or lekku!) before performances... Don't put it into another skill line and make us once again unable to do that. Being able to do your own hair and makeup is fundamental to most professional entertainers (there isn't always a "makeup artist" to do it for you), and we need to be able to do it if we want.
Gladiators -- meh... if they want to add something like this I would not oppose it, provided it did not require my dancer to get into combat in any way, shape, or form, as a dancer. If it's a totally separate skill line I have no problem with it.
C
JettVega
Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:59 am
#9
Interesting ideas. The gladiator arena idea is especially cool though like some of the others I don't really see how it applies to dance, though i do see how dancers could have a place in such an arena, adding entertainment (the kimogila eats the gladiator... half time! Bring out the Sunburn Girls! 
lol) . I toyed with the idea of suggesting a group tipping system for entertainers similar to the way missions rewards for groups are given out (everyone gets the full amount) but after thinking this through, I realized it had MASS potential for exploitation and bringing back the bots which I am more then happy to be rid of. People complain about our lag but I'd rather be getting lag from a dancer doing a good job with her new toys then hearing "Hi my name is ---------! Let me heal your mind", "Dancer's need to make a living too! Tips are appreciated", "If I'm not in a group invite me!", Sally smiles. Sally smiled. Sally smiles. Sally smiles. Sally smile. Sally.... AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! A POX ON ALL YOUR HOUSES!!!!
/Takes a deep breath
Interesting ideas though.
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