Dancer Archive
Thread: JustG: We feel that AFK macroers are not healthy for the game.We want it to stop as soon as we c
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Kreistor
Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:45 pm
#1
Um, ok, where the heck is that coming from?? Once again you're trying to prove, and with much gusto I must say, that you like to force words down people's throats.
WunuShi wrote:
I'm sorry, I thought the Topic of this thread was "We feel that AFK macroers are not healthy for the game. We want it to stop as soon as we can"
Perhaps I missed your hearty endorsement for AFK performers/macroers somewhere.
Of course I don't endorse AFK macroers. They ruin all aspects of this game, including entertaining. Does that mean that ATK are more important than them? No, but something needs to be done to curb habits that make the game less enjoyable for others.
WunuShi wrote:
After all...
AFK macroers don't pay the same monthly subscription that ATK players do.
Never said they didn't.
AFK macroers don't have the "right" to play the game in a mannerTHEY choose enjoyable - using the tools provided to them by the developers of the game.
Never said that people didn't have the right to play the game with the ingame tools at all. I encourage that actually. That doesn't mean that the tools were implemented improperly. Devs make mistakes too.
Lord knows that AFK macroers don't have the "right" to play in the samearea as ATK players.
Never said they don't. I just think it takes away from entertainers in cantinas, or hunters looking for SEAs if you'd like another example of how AFK macros are hurting the game.
Perhaps we should all...
... perform the exact same dances (ATK of course),
... perform the exact same songs (ATK of course),
... using the exact same instruments
...wear the exact same outfits,
... find the closest Image Designer and have our hair color changed to blonde
... have our eye color changed to blue
At this point I see no reason to comment since all of these things are... well, just dumb.
But then again, we'd need to log out (don't even DREAM of going AFK), rush out and purchase Mein Kompf so we'd know the rest of the "acceptable rules".
Whatever, really. Again you've proven that your arguements include only forced meanings and rediculous exagerrations. I started by trying to point outthe experiences that I've had in order to bring a different perspective to your dancing experience. If you don't believe me, fine. Trying to make a point by exagerrating and saying things that don't make sense is a waste of my time and everyone else's here.
To everyone else I appologizefor feeding this troll. I will no longer be responding to any comments from him since it seems obviously pointless. Disagree with me if you'd like. Lord knows dancing isn't for everyone. But don't make it seem I'm saying something I'm not.
/addignore WunuShi
JentiC
Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:08 pm
#2
Ok, I posted some things in the past (user account chasyork) regarding AFK macro'ers. Here are my concerns and low-programming solutions:
1) Macro-dancing DOES have legitimate uses- stepping away a moment, chatting with friends, (I'd like to catch up on my mail then, but the darn flourishes interrupt typing).
2) The hologrind end will stop some, but not all AFK dancing- people will still want to grind through the less-appealing dances to ones they like.
3) AFK spamming is an affront that, while /ignore helps, it still lags the chat server, making legitimate chat in spatial difficult.
4) The long-term AFK entertainer creates a surplus of service for entertainers. When a surplus is in place, a product becomes devalued- especially since AFK'ers can't object to non-tippers.
5) The same long-term AFK entertainer means that healing XP is spread way too thin- leading to frustrating balance issues in gaining the XP needed to level. One of the reasons I joined AFK'ers on Dath was to get a bite of SOME XP after spending 2 months on my last ent healing slot (I gave up and paid a combat medic for diseases, I'm ashamed to admit)
Now, with that said, I came up with this "solution" while working on artisan. Please understand that my "solutions" are designed to be minimal change (to be easy to implement) and not overly restrictive.
If you've ever tried your hand at surveying, you know that you occasionally get a dialog box directing you to a larger concentration of the resource. Clicking "no" sends you back to your task, clicking "yes" lets you try to get more resources /XP.
Applying this to dancers, a player could (occasionally- maybe an average of once / hour) receive a message while dancing that states something like, "A patron has been impressed with your talent and asks that you perform near their table."
Clicking "yes" gives you an alcove waypoint, where, if you move there, you're rewarded with a trickle of healing XP or a small tip after a time.
This, alone, rewards the ATK player, but doesn't stop the spammer or long term AFK'er who's gone to bed for the night. BUT- if the dialog prompt makes the macro ignore all commands until "yes" or "no" are clicked, then all spamming, flourishing, and therefore, XP gain, grinds to a halt.
The infrequency of the prompt doesn't punish the casual AFK'er (stay at home moms) but does- eventually- stop the spam and remove the primary motivation for long-term AFK'ers.
This could also be used to ENCOURAGE entertainers to the more abandoned cantinas. Make the likelihood of a prompt, and the cash reward, be tied to the number of players in the cantina: the fewer present, the more frequent and larger the reward. New players seeking cash could decide to populate those locations. The Xp reward could offset the group reward that's the primary cause for the single-cantina clustering.
Hopefully, once players realize that there are services available at these locations, they'll return there rather than fly to coronet or theed for healing.
1) Macro-dancing DOES have legitimate uses- stepping away a moment, chatting with friends, (I'd like to catch up on my mail then, but the darn flourishes interrupt typing).
2) The hologrind end will stop some, but not all AFK dancing- people will still want to grind through the less-appealing dances to ones they like.
3) AFK spamming is an affront that, while /ignore helps, it still lags the chat server, making legitimate chat in spatial difficult.
4) The long-term AFK entertainer creates a surplus of service for entertainers. When a surplus is in place, a product becomes devalued- especially since AFK'ers can't object to non-tippers.
5) The same long-term AFK entertainer means that healing XP is spread way too thin- leading to frustrating balance issues in gaining the XP needed to level. One of the reasons I joined AFK'ers on Dath was to get a bite of SOME XP after spending 2 months on my last ent healing slot (I gave up and paid a combat medic for diseases, I'm ashamed to admit)
Now, with that said, I came up with this "solution" while working on artisan. Please understand that my "solutions" are designed to be minimal change (to be easy to implement) and not overly restrictive.
If you've ever tried your hand at surveying, you know that you occasionally get a dialog box directing you to a larger concentration of the resource. Clicking "no" sends you back to your task, clicking "yes" lets you try to get more resources /XP.
Applying this to dancers, a player could (occasionally- maybe an average of once / hour) receive a message while dancing that states something like, "A patron has been impressed with your talent and asks that you perform near their table."
Clicking "yes" gives you an alcove waypoint, where, if you move there, you're rewarded with a trickle of healing XP or a small tip after a time.
This, alone, rewards the ATK player, but doesn't stop the spammer or long term AFK'er who's gone to bed for the night. BUT- if the dialog prompt makes the macro ignore all commands until "yes" or "no" are clicked, then all spamming, flourishing, and therefore, XP gain, grinds to a halt.
The infrequency of the prompt doesn't punish the casual AFK'er (stay at home moms) but does- eventually- stop the spam and remove the primary motivation for long-term AFK'ers.
This could also be used to ENCOURAGE entertainers to the more abandoned cantinas. Make the likelihood of a prompt, and the cash reward, be tied to the number of players in the cantina: the fewer present, the more frequent and larger the reward. New players seeking cash could decide to populate those locations. The Xp reward could offset the group reward that's the primary cause for the single-cantina clustering.
Hopefully, once players realize that there are services available at these locations, they'll return there rather than fly to coronet or theed for healing.
PoetDancer
Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:14 am
#3
The galaxy won't fall apart if the holocron labor surplus is eliminated. Of course, you may have to make it worth a dancer's while to provide service, but then again, don't I have to do it if I need a buff or a weapon?
The truth of the matter is that the servers can exist rather well with a very small handful of entertainers. Indeed, one entertainer can service an entire galaxy, if need be. An infinate number of patrons can be serviced by one entertainer. Nineteen people can be buffed at one time by one entertainer. So the galaxy will not, I repeat, NOT fall apart if the entertainment community is reduced by even 90% in some cases. You will always have it, that is, if the demand is there. In fact, even with a 90% reduction in the entertainer communities. I'dalso venture to say that if even one person plays non-standard hours, you will still have an entertainer to service them ifunattended play were not an option. The player in this case will have simply no other choice but to choose novice ent. to serve not only his or her own needs, but those around him or her. The fact of the matter is now that entertainers comprise the lion's share of players on at 4AM, simply because entertainers can mimic a live practitioner's effects more perfect than any other profession.The ratio of entertainers to potential customers islargerat 4AM than ANY other time on the server, and it is ONLY because of the ability for non-players to have the same effect on the game world as players. Have faith in the market forces of the game.
Now I have to wonder, with buffs and stims the way that they are, what is really the big deal with battle fatiuge that you must ZERO it out before every excursion? The system was designed to have a player go rather long stretches without entertainment at all if they so chose. Mind wounds can be healed in many ways other than through entertainment. They will auto heal in a camp or a medical centre, albeit slowly. They will also heal with a combat medic, though the medic will sustain fatiuge. However, I do have to wonder if the rather small reduction in stim and healing potency with accrued BF is really all that much for most combatatnts to be concerned about. Yes, it is a burden that must be tended to eventually, but the system is designed for players to go rather long stretches with suprisingly high battle fatiuge without much reduction in combat potential, especially with the very high grade stims that are available these days. Entertainment is something that you can live without for awhile.
You have to understand that many of the conventions of this simulation operate under the assumption that players play, and they play in a manner that is condusive to their enjoyment. But we all know that it is not only players that have an effect on the game environment. Non-players too have an effect: be it in the skill tape areas acquiring tapes 24/7, or the static enemy areas building skill points 24/7, or the entertainer who provides service 24/7. Indeed, besides the "player economy" that SOE is so proud of, there is a seperate and distinct "non-player economy" that exists as well. Both operate in the same game world, but each of them operate by different parameters. Non-players in this simulation do not operate under the same parameters as human players. They do not get bored at staring at the same walls not interacting. They do not feel shame at spamming annoying things. They are not goal oriented to put in the extra effort to get a tip. They do not deny service if insulted. Therefore, it is impossible for a live player to effectively compete in a rational market system when they must compete with things that trancend the bounds of playability.
When SOE says it is a player driven economy, they are liars. Because non-players drive the economy too, and there is no better proof than in the entertainment professions. Non-players have such a profound and radical effect on the game world, that the game no longer seems to make sense. And when the game doesn't make sense, the goals of what you are to do here and measure your success at the game become meaningless. THAT is why unattended play in a simulation like this is not healthy. Why play at all if not playing is so superior?
Youna
Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:47 am
#4
Kreistor... let him be. 
Wunu Shi is just bitter because he feels that SOE made him holo grind that included going through what he stated as "mindnumbingly boring and repetitive" process in the entertainer professions. Oh wait, but wasn't he the one that actually made the decision for himself to holo grind and put himself through this "mindnumbingly boring and repetitive" process in the first place? So why try to show your anger and bitterness of the entertainer professions down onto people that actually love it and have fun with it as they play?
If he is making all these sarcastic comments, indicating how AFKers have every right to play the way they want to, then why should people, who are ATK, have to suffer from it? Don't you think that is very selfish? Why can't everyone play the way they want to, without making anyone's gameplay suffer?
Of course, his reference to Adolf Hitler's Mein Kempf just said it all. He is just plain bitter, full of anger and hatred. So much like Hitler was. There was absolutelyno need to mention that.
But then again, it is this kind of attitudes that aren't helping anyone. It looks like he is almost done with his entertainer portion of his holo grind. I would like to see him finish this grind ASAP and leave ASAP. With such lack of respect, no entertainers need to help a character like him, even if he has 1,000 bf and is desperate for some healing.
He can go ahead and create an alt and make a buffbot or beg his guildmates for all I care. It really isn't anyone's business, but his. Just check out the Jedi thread and see how many people continue to whine and cry like babies, it is incredible. The Jedi wannabes, like him,sure find a way to complain and whine about any little Jedi things. ATK entertainers here, are much better behaved, and all they are asking for is some help to make their gameplay more enjoyable withoutmaking anyone's gameplay suffer. So how bad is that?
And finally, I can never understand why in the world someone would come to the boards of a profession that he thinks it is "mindnumbingly boring and repetitive." If he hates it so much, why even come here and post? Why not finish the grind and just get the **edit** out?
Oh I see.. another troll. Yeah, the trolls will always be here. They are sometime quite amusing when they make a big fool out of themselves. You just tell them straight, laugh it off, and ignore them.
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