Dancer Archive

Ok, show of hands - how many of my fellow dancers have added combat skills to their character?

(Raises both hands)

This sounds like one of those sour grapes posts that dominate the main board every day. The thing is, I doubt most of the complainers have ever tried to run or program an MMRPG themselves, and all they can see is what inconveniences themselves.

The fact is, Dancers had become the most underappreciated, over-macroed and underpaidprofession in the game. The live entertainers among us were an endangered species as more players just rolled up a dancer to AFK macro their Master title. Half our flourishes have never worked, we are constantlypuked on and groped in public cantinas and called nasty names -- I wonder how hard it was for the Devs to see that some things needed fixing?

Sure, be a Dancer, but I hope you do it because you love Dancing and not because you're just afraid your class will be changed.

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Dromare wrote:
SOE ruined this game just like planetside nerfing anything that can kill a chuba and the only thing that hasnt been nerfed is the dancer guess we should all take this up and forget every class and call it star wars DANCERS **edit** this game. It is ruined now since this new patch.

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And the dancers should be nerfed.

After all, we've been so overpowered since Day 1. We will receive our come-uppance.

Owning three rancors or spamming knockdown are chump change when compared to the awesome might of the

FALLING MASTER DANCER!

P43r uS, n00bs!

But seriously, as the dancers never really were powerful in anything, the devs never had a reason to balance us. In fact, one could say that to balance us requires giving us more improved features. And actually, with the redesigned buff and the upcoming reduced Action cost (yay), this balance is coming.

Although, I guess the buffs currently stack when they weren't supposed to. Look for that nerf soon (but can it be called a nerf when it's correcting an oversight?).

Removing the /ui action command is far from what anyone would call a good solution to the problem. It would remove a great deal of the macroers yes, not nearly all of them of course but a lot. The command however has far to many legit uses for almost every profession out there to just have it removed. Doing that is what many would refer to as a knee jerk reaction. They see a problem, they see the immediate and most consistent cause of the problem and nerf it out of existence without looking into the other effects removing such a thing might have.

As far as the rest goes, I'm very happy to hear that you enjoy being a dancer and are enjoying your climb to Master. Hopefully with the new additions and changes coming you won't find yourself loosing interest once you get Master or getting frustrated with the profession period like so many others have. I know I still enjoy it myself a great deal even tho I made Master within the first month of the game being live.

Personally I think the last thing anyone wants (with the exception of perhaps a few chefs out there) is to see Dancers nerfed in any way considering all our profession does is help others, hehe. However I am finding the recent interest in our profession and the active recruiting of PA's for entertainers very encouraging. Hopefully if I can do a good enough job a few months down the line from now all our Master Dancers will be happy to be one and all will be in awe of the amazing thing that is a dancer.

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N4R4Y4 wrote:

Underappreciated? Highly disagree. As a dancer, I'm MORE than appreciated. I actually get requests to come dance at my place of choice (tavern in the Rebel Outpost on Rori).

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I do hope you aren't trying to instruct me, N4, because like you, I have my own circle of admirers and fans as well. And I take plenty of pleasure in performing with my organized troupe on gigs all over the galaxy. However, none of that argues against what still happens in the busy cantinas - the groping, /licking, puking, the misogynist attitude of so many players who see dancers as their own little virtual sex toy ... I agree we can and do have other positive experiences, but you cannot really argue that these things don't happen. They happen, and all too regularly. And if you've read the SWG boards at all, for any length of time, you will also know that there is a large body of players in this game who think BF was an artificial means of justifying our existence, that we're "carebears" or "Sims" who really don't play the game,that none of us Masters have done anything to earn our skills (since we were "probably all afk macroing" anyway) and would be just as happy if the Dancers were eliminated from the game and replaced with NPCs.

I'm glad you haven't had to deal with any of those anti-Dancer types, but take my word for it, they exist in large numbers. Denying they exist doesn't make them cease to exist.

Over-macro'd? Of course. If anything can be macro'd in this game, it will be. There's no stopping this without removing the /ui action toolbarSlotXX command from the macro system.

I don't agree at all. I think if SOE could simply add code that stops XP gains after 10 minutes of not touching the keyboard, the problem would be solved. AFK macro your heart out, but the real issue of unattended skill gains would finally be settled. That, too, has added a great deal to the lack of respect the Dancing profession has as a whole -- a lack of respect that a Dancer must be at their keyboard to really witness.

I'll admit, I stay connected when sleeping / working and macro when doing so. Why? So my fans can come get their bf/mind healed up when I'm not there to actively entertain them. I don't care about the money or the xp. I've actually gotten requests when trying to /logoff to stay logged in and just keep dancing AFK.

Personally, I don't see this as anything to recommend AFK macroing -- I think it just says that most players have come to expect Dancers NOT to be at our keyboards. Every time someone plants their toon in a cantina and runs a macro while they sleep, they are taking jobs and tips away from real live dancers who could be there ... either in that remoteLok or Dathomir cantina, or back on Naboo so the adventurers have to leave their comfy little hunting spot once in a while. I don't consider this kind of AFKingmuch more admirable than those who are doing it to gain skill -- Ijust don't break out into a rash over it if they're not skilling up

Underpaid? Making money has nothing to do with why I dance. I don't ask for money, I don't expect any money. I dance because I enjoy healing people with the gentle movements of my body.

The fact remains that Dancers deserve to earn a living like everyone else. I've augmented my own game income with doing missions as a TK/CH, but I will never forget being a raw novice who felt lucky to be able to run a delivery mission and make 500 credits ... time taken out from actually being in a cantina working on my skills. Hopefully, the planned changes to entertainer missions will improve this situation, but please don't try to hand me the notion that Dancers don't need or deservemoney.

Flourishes? Yes..buggy. Some just don't fit with the current dance, some display the wrong animations when failing, and not every dance hasa set of eight unique flourishes each. Knowing which flourishes LOOK good for the dance you are doing helps bigtime. Knowing which ones don't can also be a plus, especially when trying to mix comedy into the routine.

That's what I was getting at. So what did I say that was wrong? Have you seen the flourishes they added to rhythmic and poplock? They're going to be replaced, but LORD what ridiculous excuses for flourishes. And if I'm in another group that thinks Exotic has more than 2 unique flourishes I'm going to scream

Being constantly groped, puked on, harrassed in general? There will always be little boys that have yet to reach puberty who do this.

So because there will always be little boys like this in games, we're supposed to accept it? It STILL counts as a negative for anyone who is considering taking up dancer.

It is the bigger places like Theed and Anchorhead where I've run into this kind of filth. Best solution? Ignore it. I've found that responding to it only leads to the worst. Those around you will, and do, take note of how you respond to such. If it becomes too much, simply dance somewhere else.

Personally, I don't allow hormonally challenged dipsticks to chase me out of my cantinas. I deal with them in my way, and I get by ok, but as I said above the fact remains that they are a negative to being a Dancer -- no matter where you go, there are going to be idiots. I fail to see how your "solution" changes anything except making your own game play less of a hassle. But I guess that counts for something, if you don't mind retreat as a method of coping with problems.

"I do hope you aren't trying to instruct me"

Instructing you or anyone else was not my intention in sharing my personalreasoning, my personalattitude, and my personalphilosophy towards the profession, and the resulting experiences of my application of such philosophies upon my game. I'm sorry if the wording made it seem like such...or was it the quoting of a slither of your post that pissed you off enough to take the entirety of mine, dissectit, andfire backsome circular utterancesimplying thatmymethods areunethical, faulty, hurting of the profession, etc..?

But just out of dark curiousity, let's speak hypothetically for a second and assume that indeed I was trying to, as you so politely put it, instruct you;what then? Your response to my post implies consequences...

And yes, I do read the boards. And oh yes, I'm well aware of those who think BF and the three blue pools should be healable by docs and that the entertainer and all elite profs branching off of it should just go away. Should that happen, then so be it. I'd most likely leave the game if they did it, inspite of being a 4-4-4-2 doctor of all things. I greatly enjoy the social aspects of the dancer profession. Laugh at me if you like, but I've grown accustomed to living the majority of my life on the net, have done so for the last decade it seems. I enjoy being immersed in a different world; the real world really sucks right now. And in this world, I can dance without spraining ankles when falling down....lol. Something I can't always do in the real world.

Andwhat is this'don't try to hand me the notion that dancers don't deserve or need money' fodder? I didn't ask you to go there, you went there, and nowyouare there and so am I. And while we are both here, I must ask: where in my post, in ANY PART of my post, did I explicity say, indirectly imply or express otherwise, the notion that dancers don't deserve or need money? Read it again. Note the heavy use of the letter I. Note thatALL of the philosophies and ideals expressed in that particular section of my post pertainspecifically to no other dancer's way of doing thingsbut MINE. Note that not one sentence even comesCLOSEto being capable of expressing that notion. Should I stop now? No...

The harassment you describe? I'm not going to deny that it happens to dancers.But umm...lemme let you inon a little secret; profession doesn't matter. Most of what you describe, I've experienced first hand on Eclipse, before I had ever thought about training novice entertainer, much less becoming a dancer. Let's see how many insults (it's not even worth mentioning the frequency) that have been thrown my way make it past the word filter shall we?

Bitch. **edit**. Whore. **edit**. **edit** guzzler.DirtyHousewife(thx to the "Homemaker title during my artisan days").

Aside from that, the puking? Yes...I've had to nitrochlorox myarmor and wardrobeseveral times already. The blatant raunchy sex talk? Yes...numerous occasions...and all while wearing a black and green tactical skinsuit..nothing that one could call risque. The fondleand groping spam? Lots. Sux to be put into an incap loop and then poisoned by impotent 17 year old CMs, doesn't it? What was I during this time? Rifleman, Scout, Medic....anything but an entertainer....

And I'm very very sorry that my way of dealing with the problem doesn't solve it for everyone. And no, I'm not denying it exists. But a quick glance at the nature of the problem will easily tell you that it is one that cannot be efficiently solved through policy, nor one that can be efficiently solved through code, thus it is a problem where EVERYONE will have to find THEIR OWNsolution. Having experience with kids, I've come to find that ignorance is the best solution to their crap and such has proven effective in-game as well...against both kids and grown ups.

Sorry for the sheer explicitness of this post and sorry if it comes across as being sharp or offensive. I don't like being threatened and I don't react well to it...

Actually it CAN be efficiently solved by policy. All they have to do is actively enforce suspension and banning of accounts belonging to the little pricks that do that kind of sexual harrassing. The policy is there, it just isn't enforced because 1) they don't have enough CSRs, and 2) SOE is more worried about making money from as many people as possible, and since those being harrassed generally take your path of ignoring and leaving they know they don't have to actively do anything to fix the problem.

But hey, that's justmy opinion.

"The fact is, Dancers had become the most underappreciated, over-macroed and underpaidprofession in the game. The live entertainers among us were an endangered species as more players just rolled up a dancer to AFK macro their Master title. Half our flourishes have never worked, we are constantlypuked on and groped in public cantinas and called nasty names"

I have to disagree with parts of this, but having much pride in being a dancer, I feel it necessary to comment on all of it.

Underappreciated? Highly disagree. As a dancer, I'm MORE than appreciated. I actually get requests to come dance at my place of choice (tavern in the Rebel Outpost on Rori). My fans know that I like to dance. They know that I'm aspiring to be master and that I can heal pretty fast as is. They know that when I'm actively dancing, I'm fun to be around (so I am told). They know that they can /tell me and I'll usually drop what I'm doing to dance. This has gotten me a reputation, one that I never expected, but greatly enjoy. Your reasons for being a dancer, your attitude while dancing, and where dancing comes in on your list of priorities all have an effect on how appreciated you are. The game mechanics make us an inevitable stop for people. The appreciation comes when you are successful at making that stop entertaining....

Over-macro'd? Of course. If anything can be macro'd in this game, it will be. There's no stopping this without removing the /ui action toolbarSlotXX command from the macro system. So long as the in-game macro system can be looped using the aforementioned command, this will never change either. And with the mind buff in, it is probably only going to get worse. Do I agree with allowing this? Nope. And changing this should be CAKE. Removing the code reacting to one command from the macro system's parser should not be a difficult task. In fact, if the code is clean, then they should only have to comment out themethod (orthe specific part of the method)in the parser that reacts to the command. Seeing as how it (the command) has survived every patch since release, I don't think this is ever going to change.

I'll admit, I stay connected when sleeping / working and macro when doing so. Why? So my fans can come get their bf/mind healed up when I'm not there to actively entertain them. I don't care about the money or the xp. I've actually gotten requests when trying to /logoff to stay logged in and just keep dancing AFK. My fans know when I'm working,they know when I'm sleeping, they understand that I have priorities outside of the game, and they don'tcare if I'm active or AFK; they don't want to be troubled with leaving the planet to get mind/bf healing and because of me, they don't. And if SoE has no intention ofchanging the game to eliminate this, then I'm not going to change my routine.

Underpaid? Making money has nothing to do with why I dance. I don't ask for money, I don't expect any money. I dance because I enjoy healing people with the gentle movements of my body. It leaves me very happy to heal and I do so enthusiastically. I get to know my observers and they quickly become fans. I make it known that Rori is my favorite place to dance and that I'm usually there; people come back. I dress well; every outfit I have was made by a master tailor (either Anoula or Nurofen on Eclipse) to my exact specifications and the makeup ALWAYS has to match. I flirt in subtle ways when appropriate. I buff without hesitation, warning, or expectation of being paid for it. I love to converse with my fans.I laugh at myselfwhenever I fall and encourage others to do so. Sometimes I'll perform a flourish that looksso funky and odd that people laugh. And Ilaugh with them.They leave entertained,happy that someone was there to chat with them while waiting for the healing to finish, and theyare often generous.

Flourishes? Yes..buggy. Some just don't fit with the current dance, some display the wrong animations when failing, and not every dance hasa set of eight unique flourishes each. Knowing which flourishes LOOK good for the dance you are doing helps bigtime. Knowing which ones don't can also be a plus, especially when trying to mix comedy into the routine.

Being constantly groped, puked on, harrassed in general? There will always be little boys that have yet to reach puberty who do this. There will always be big boys who are long past puberty who will do this. They do this because their peepees are either not yet tofunctioningor are out of shape due to not being used in the field. They frequently needan avenue to vent their frustrations. This is part of the reason why I chose Rori. The people that resideand/or frequent Roriseem to be rather level-headed and polite. It is the bigger places like Theed and Anchorhead where I've run into this kind of filth. Best solution? Ignore it. I've found that responding to it only leads to the worst. Those around you will, and do, take note of how you respond to such. If it becomes too much, simply dance somewhere else.

"The policy is there, it just isn't enforced because 1) they don't have enough CSRs, and 2) SOE is more worried about making money from as many people as possible, and since those being harrassed generally take your path of ignoring and leaving they know they don't have to actively do anything to fix the problem."

Sad but true. Stricter enforcement of policy would be a much welcomed thing. Much welcomed thing.

You know, it's funny. I've never seen this whole "rude to dancers" problem before. Of course, I could hardly be expected to have experienced it myself, being a male dancer. Heck, I'm more likely to fondle or grope one of my customers than vice-versa. Although, now that I can be shirtless with my hotpants, I must say that I've been getting a lot more whistles...

But I've never even seen this happening to a female dancer before. I'm on Intrepid, and I mainly dance in Theed, Moenia, and occasionally out on theOuter Rim Worldswhen I want to make some money or when I'm out there for missions and whatnot. Maybe I've just been lucky, or maybe people just went /report happy and the punks got the message, iunno.

I've really only recieved the following 3 reactions while dancing:

1) Thanks! I really needed the heal, and your conversation was funny, too. Dancers like you make going to cantinas fun. Can I have your autograph? Also, I want to have your baby, you gorgeous thing, you. (....okay maybe that's a bit exaggerated. )

2) omg u r a guy!!1!1 r u gay cuz u r a guy nd ur dancing omg i wnat 2 see a gurl dnace not some guy i bet u r gay u must be gay if u r wering a spedo!!!11 (This time, I didn't exaggerate, but this only happened to me once, and it blew his fragile little mind when I told him he was right.)

3) "/watch ............. /stopw" [Leave]

Also, on an unrelated note,if you want money, advertise the mind buffs. Not many people know about them yet, and I've gotten LOTS of money from people who want me to target them while I dance.

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N4R4Y4 wrote:

Instructing you or anyone else was not my intention in sharing my personalreasoning, my personalattitude, and my personalphilosophy towards the profession, and the resulting experiences of my application of such philosophies upon my game. I'm sorry if the wording made it seem like such...or was it the quoting of a slither of your post that pissed you off enough to take the entirety of mine, dissectit, andfire backsome circular utterancesimplying thatmymethods areunethical, faulty, hurting of the profession, etc..?

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No, N4, your personal approach to playing isn't and wasn't the issue. I think everyone here shares our approaches -- but your post did come offpreachy andcondescending. You didn't list one single thing that I (and other dancers here) haven't already done -- but you sounded like you wanted to flavor everything with sugar and make it sound like we should all just dance purely for the joy of dancing and ignore the negatives.

Well, I do dance for the joy of it. Dancing is the only thing that has kept me from cancelling this excuse for a game. But I find it very difficult to sit there and pretend that we can fix everything by just having better attitudes -- by being aware of the problems and pushing the Devs (through Ravenmist) to fix those problems, I want to create an even better experience for Dancers. The focused buffs are a great start, and I expect more changes to come that will lift Dancers out of the status of red-headed stepchild in the SWG universe to being a class that's not just fun and emotionally rewarding, but also has a purpose and goals within the Civil War story arc -- without even having to engage in combat. We're going to suffer the slings and arrows of "carebear" and "sims" monikers until that happens.

We can do it, but it's going to take all of us together and we're going to have to acknowledge that there are problems with Dancer that being Pollyannas is not going to fix. And if you're not a Pollyanna, then we simply misunderstood each other and I accept my responsibility for my part of any misunderstandings. If you are a Pollyanna, hang around me for a couple of days and I'll cure you