Dancer Archive
Thread: Can somone explain to me WITHOUT flaming?
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Ihareo
Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:01 am
#1
What exactly IS the problem with AFKers?
I mean really?
I am a dancer, I have been a musician (hated it).
During neither of these professions did I have the slightest problem wit AFK entertainers, other than adding a particularly annoying one to my ignore list. I just don't understand it. Where's the problem?
As far as I can tell, (no disrespect intended) the only problem they pose is that they're taking up 'your space'.
I have never had a problem getting XP with an AFK player around.
I have never had a problem getting tips with an AFK player around.
I have never been Griefed by an AFK player.
I have never suffered AT ALL from an AFK player. (exept the inconvienience of adding a particularly annoying spammer to my ignore list)
So again, where's the problem?
It seems to me that the whole thing is a case of a minority of busey bodies trying to dictate what they think is THE RIGHT WAY TO PLAY to others, and frankly it's annoying the bejeebies out of me.
How EXACTLY are AFK players causing trouble?
picklesSW
Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:06 am
#2
I'm not going to flame you, but I'm not going to answer you either, because there's a stickied thread discussing why AFKers and buttbots hurt these professions. All the answers you could ever want, from both sides of the argument, can be found there, I'm sure. Check up top, you'll find it.
Ihareo
Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:11 am
#3
picklesSW wrote:
I'm not going to flame you, but I'm not going to answer you either, because there's a stickied thread discussing why AFKers and buttbots hurt these professions. All the answers you could ever want, from both sides of the argument, can be found there, I'm sure. Check up top, you'll find it.
I looked.
All I could find was rants, sour grapes and people just trying to push other players into their little niche.
There was also some theories about the dynamics but nothing truely informative.
Honestly the sticky has led me to the belief that this is a few players' vendetta or wanting a bigger piece of an alreadysmall pie, and those few players are egging the entertainer community to keep the hate on.
That's why I asked if anyone realy does have a problem with AFKers.
edited for extreme typos
Message Edited by Ihareo on 12-06-2004 09:17 AM
Va-Mei
Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:13 am
#4
Myself, I don't have issues with the players who want to AFK part of their grind. Strip the spam out of their macro, toss in a /join & a startdance or start music, & all they do is make my grind easier. If the group is full, /kick. If the group is light, I'll re-invite them.
I don't really care for the ones who choose to AFK grind all the way to master and then to Jedi, but that's a hard call to make. Just because they're never live when I play from 7p-2a my time, doesn't mean they're not live when I'm not playing.
The ones I really don't like are the buffbots. The ones who take2 professionsandact likea terminal that dispenses my service free to anyone that wants it, turning me into a novelty. Since registration is fubar'd, there are only a few good spots on a server for an entertainer to try to make a buck, and at each of those places, there's a bot eating the business.
Message Edited by Va-Mei on 12-06-2004 09:14 AM
picklesSW
Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:38 am
#5
Ihareo wrote:
picklesSW wrote:
I'm not going to flame you, but I'm not going to answer you either, because there's a stickied thread discussing why AFKers and buttbots hurt these professions. All the answers you could ever want, from both sides of the argument, can be found there, I'm sure. Check up top, you'll find it.I looked.All I could find was rants, sour grapes and people just trying to push other players into their little niche.There was also some theories about the dynamics but nothing truely informative.Honestly the sticky has led me to the belief that this is a few players' vendetta or wanting a bigger piece of an already small pie, and those few players are egging the entertainer community to keep the hate on.That's why I asked if anyone realy does have a problem with AFKers.edited for extreme typosMessage Edited by Ihareo on 12-06-2004 09:17 AM
Asking the same question here will net you more of the same. I'm sorry, but this question has created enough heated words on this forum to melt an icecap. Everyone is emotional about this issue, no matter which side of the fence they are on.
The only important thing at this point is that the devs have decided that unattended gameplay is not something they want to see continue in their game, and at some undetermined point in the future, they will change the game to enforce that.
You will never get a person who hates AFKers and buttbots to change their mind. Nor will they ever manage to change yours. It is pointless to try, as the sticky thread should prove to you. I have read that thread and there are plenty of posts that, while fervent and full of emotion, clearly state why people think buffbots and AFKing are bad. The fact you only see "people just trying to push other players into their little niche" tells me that you didn't come in here with the intent to actually get information and try to understand what's going on, but to stir up a hornet's nest. I will not help you do that, I'm sorry.
All the information you need is in that thread.
JodoKai
Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:53 am
#6
My personal feeling on the issue, is: I have only seen two kinds of entertainers, the ones that AFK grind to Master and the ones that are already Masters so they don't have to anymore.
I can see the point about buff bots taking money away, but I know the people I hunt with will always go with someone live than an AFK'er.
Reachwind
Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:15 am
#7
There are many ways that AFK entertainers hurt the profession. Without getting into arguments about it the most important areas are;
AFK entertainers reduce the value of the profession by eliminating need for players to offer incentives to get active players to pick up and play the profession.
AFK entertainers are an imersion breaker for people that wish to enjoy the cantina experience.
AFK entertainers can interfere with the skill gain of active players if they are set to act as buff bots or not set to join the novice band.
AFK entertainers harm the validity of choosing the profession as an active player. Active player entertainers are routinely talked around as if they are things rather than fellow players.
The game was designed to be played by active players. The game is intended to be played by active players.
AFK entertainers reduce the value of the profession by eliminating need for players to offer incentives to get active players to pick up and play the profession.
AFK entertainers are an imersion breaker for people that wish to enjoy the cantina experience.
AFK entertainers can interfere with the skill gain of active players if they are set to act as buff bots or not set to join the novice band.
AFK entertainers harm the validity of choosing the profession as an active player. Active player entertainers are routinely talked around as if they are things rather than fellow players.
The game was designed to be played by active players. The game is intended to be played by active players.
LyteFoot
Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:59 am
#8
I've learned to ignore them but I'll tell you what bothers me.
First it is the fact that the vast majority of my ignores are AFK tip/heal beggers. It really bothers me that I have to ignore so many people supposedly doing my profession.
Second its the system resources these people steal. They take server resources when they aren't there, they take my clients resources when they aren't there, and they take up my bandwidth when they aren't there.
Third and finally its the way they ruin the cantina atmosphere for everyone else. The non-entertainers hate that they get no response to questions they ask, they hate the lag when they enter, and eventually they end up hating our profession. The live entertainers hate the random littering of zombie bodies all over with no organization, we hate the bad taste the experience leaves in non-ents mouths, and we especially hate how it has degraded our perception to the point that people think they can abuse us. People come in and make rude and inappropriate comments and emotes on the females all the time because they don't consider the person behind the screen. They treat women who I know are much older than the non-ent as items and talk to them like they are for sale. The entertainer profession has been degraded to the point we aren't considered people in a lot of cases.
This is a game, it is made to be played. Simply leaving a computer running and the client application running a macro isn't playing the game, it isn't a play style.You saypeople should be able to play the game the way they want but when is the last time you stayed home and still successfully played with a softball team? AFK is not a play style, there is no one there playing.
Warryyr
Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:43 pm
#9
Well, I'll just say that your post is inherently bitter towards Entertainers, and the attitude won't helpmuch.
The very title of your poster pre-supposes that we're going to flame you. That, and the details in your post, tell me that all you think of the pro-live entertainment Ents is that we're a little "niche" group, and we flame people.
I'm not interested in perpetuating this tired argument, it goes nowhere, and it seems to me you've already made up your mind that AFK players don't hurt Entertainers, solely because nothing harmful has ever been done to you by an AFK Entertainer. So, your opinion is your own, but your attitude is less than welcome,and I hardly take this post to be anything near sincere.
Your decision is already made. It's more than obvious. YOUR experiences apparently dictate how every other player experiences this game. If no one affected YOUR xp gain, YOUR tips, YOU'VE never been griefed by an AFK'er, then oh gee whiz, we're such nutballs, what's OUR PROBLEM?
Well, you are not everyone. And I, personally, have NEVER told you to play your game in any way, shape, or form. I don't care about you yelling about me saying what's the RIGHT way to play the game, all I've ever said is TO PLAY THE GAME. Macros HELP you play the game, macros should NOT PLAY THE GAME FOR YOU, AS THE DEVS HAVE STATED.
Talk to the Chilastra Entertainers who got mercilessly griefed by buffbots. It'll make you hate AFK'ers. If you have any heart within you, that is. Oh, wait - they've LEFT THE GAME because of their merciless griefing. Oh, WAIT- their post about the griefing got FLAMED BY AFK'ers until it got DELETED. See the point? They don't just take up "our space" (not like there's 10000 other places to stand in a cantina, who cares where I stand). They take our customers andour chance to actively contribute to the community as anyone who PLAYS the game should be able to.
"It seems to me that the whole thing is a case of a minority of busey bodies trying to dictate what they think is THE RIGHT WAY TO PLAY to others, and frankly it's annoying the bejeebies out of me."
If none of this affects you at all, why the hell is it annoying the bejeebies out of you? Just play the game, you obviously have a perfect gaming experience without incidents. Go enjoy it, and let us worry about how our gameplay is gradually dying. This matter does not, in any way, seem to involve you. If you make it so obvious you can't possibly fathom why we hate AFK'ers, do you really care why WE hate them? I sincerely doubt it.
Nevertheless, that's my opinion on the subject. And, this subject truly does belong in that sticky. If you can't find anything in there to defend our problems with AFK'ers, then you're reading the wrong sticky.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 12-06-2004 11:46 AM
Virrago
Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:12 pm
#10
picklesSW wrote:
Asking the same question here will net you more of the same. I'm sorry, but this question has created enough heated words on this forum to melt an icecap. Everyone is emotional about this issue, no matter which side of the fence they are on.
All the information you need is in that thread.
Good answer... Thread locked.
Warryyr
Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:08 am
#11
Umm....isn't this a reply by you from today?
Don' take it personally. It's part of human nature to stomp on those weaker than ourselves.
Let me tell you a story that may cheer you up.
I was leading a band in theed a few months back. I was dancing my lil heart out 'cause I wanted my Master dancer badge (I've left and picked Dancer up so many time it's stupid) when some Master Bounty Hunter came in.
Firstly, there was about 5 of us at the keyboard and the rest were AFKing (which I don't mind at all. We all get xp if we're in the band). I was having a conversation with one of the dancers who lived in Denmark and having a good time, the aforementioned Bounty Hunter joining in the conversation and we al had some fun.
My fellow dancer at one point announced that she had to go AFK for a few minuites and would be back shortly.
No sooner had she gone AFK, but the Bounty Hunter startssaying EXTREMELY lewd things about her, like how she'll cyber with anyone for 10k, and how kinky she is and making even more lewd /emotes at her. I turned to him and informed him that that would not be tolerated in this cantina and asked him to leave.
He responnded to me by exclaiming that I better learn my place and no whore will talk to him like that, brandishing his pistol at me and /slap ing and /spit ing on me.
So I invited him to a duel.
The second he accepted he was hit by 12,000 points of flame thrower goodness, after which I explained to him that I was also a Master commando as I deathblowed him and reported him for sexual harassment.
The moral of the story is this: TAKE your respect and if they still harass you, kill them and report them.
Now, from that little tidbit, you want to know how AFK players hurt us? Huh? This is by no means a stretch...
Very simple - the player who treated your AFK friend like a prostitute thought they could get away with it, because AFK Entertainers are nothing to them. They are just a toon that's macroing, not worth their time or respect. Very quickly, they begin assuming all Entertainers are worth nothing because they assume that all Entertainers are AFK since they're not talking. So, they start picking on Entertainers all over, knowing that most have no means to defend themselves - and they start assuming most are AFK. They don't fear any repercussions from their actions. Heck, the person even had the gall to punch you and spit on you, though you most definitely weren't AFK. You were nothing to that person, even when you talked.
I very much enjoyed the fact that you defended the AFK player. There should be more like you. However, it doesn't take much to actually ponder the situation and see how AFK'ers are degrading our position in the game's community, as well as shaping people's attitudes towards us solely through interaction (or lack thereof)with a macro - and assuming after visiting 4 buffbots that "all" Entertainers are AFK.
Do you honestly think that was the only time that person ever griefed an AFK Entertainer? Do you think it was the last? Do you think they mistake ATK Entertainers as AFK ones? I'm sure they do.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 12-06-2004 12:10 PM
Message Edited by Warryyr on 12-06-2004 12:14 PM
Vorpaks
Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:34 am
#12
I have to agree with Warryyr, with a little less intensity. No one respects a profession that can be done 100% afk.
They just sit there and expect people to give them money for doing nothing. Beggars. Losers. Worthless. I have to get BF so these people have a purpose? Why not just delete BF, delete entertainers and be done with it. Its not like they do anything anyway, except expect to get everything for free.
This is the feeling a lot of players have for the Entertainment professions. And how can you argue with them? AFKers make everything they say the truth. I love the Entertainment professions. And I walk into a cantina, see a person leveling their character while afk and I think they they are pretty worthless. I see a person camping a meatlump spawn while afk and I think they are pretty pathetic. I see people standing around an afk tumbler afk healing and I think how pointless. Fortunately I have the ability to not judge an entire profession by those people. Not everyone is like that.
No one is keeping people from playing the way they want to play. All they are asking is that when they are done playing they log off, and let other people play they way they want to play.
They just sit there and expect people to give them money for doing nothing. Beggars. Losers. Worthless. I have to get BF so these people have a purpose? Why not just delete BF, delete entertainers and be done with it. Its not like they do anything anyway, except expect to get everything for free.
This is the feeling a lot of players have for the Entertainment professions. And how can you argue with them? AFKers make everything they say the truth. I love the Entertainment professions. And I walk into a cantina, see a person leveling their character while afk and I think they they are pretty worthless. I see a person camping a meatlump spawn while afk and I think they are pretty pathetic. I see people standing around an afk tumbler afk healing and I think how pointless. Fortunately I have the ability to not judge an entire profession by those people. Not everyone is like that.
No one is keeping people from playing the way they want to play. All they are asking is that when they are done playing they log off, and let other people play they way they want to play.
Warryyr
Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:58 am
#13
Blast that intensity. I can't help it, my blood pressure spikes after lunch.
Vorpaks wrote:
I have to agree with Warryyr, with a little less intensity. No one respects a profession that can be done 100% afk.
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