Dancer Archive
Thread: Dear Correspondent One player's reaction to Dancers
First and foremost... Whoever made these animaitons has not been to a dance club in 10 years. Their sole education is probably"Night at the Roxbury". And they certainly have never been to any kind of dance production or recital.
SWG Dancers are clumsy and goofy. I can't believe how often they mis-step and blow a flourish. Every now and then it's funny. ... "I fell on my butt". But after the third time in a half hour routine, it gets REALLY annoying.
I can't beleive I worked my tail off to make Dancer IV so I could look dizzy andconfused. When the formal dance is in step and you don't miss flourishes, it's actually the best dance in the list. But because the design makes you lose step and blow 1 out of5 flourishes on average... you look horrible. And the truly tragic part is that Formal2 is the master entertainer dance. So I have to waste skill points on music and image design to get it, sacrificing what I really want to do with my character.
Master Entertainer is a pre-requiste to NOTHING. Entertainers specialize in their 2 required trees and go professional. All songs and dances should remain exclusively within those paths.
Then I make Dance Techniques I so I can do the ROBOT? THE freakin ROBOT!?!?!?
This profession desparately needs more dances and better flourishes. Right now, the only difference between any_dance1 and any_dance2 is that you blow a flourish slightly less often. When I saw someone make Master Dancer, and then fall on her butt on her second flourish, I was simply in awe of the stupidity of this game design.
Sidebar for the Musician correspondent -- We also desparately need more music, also with more flourishes. The musician per dancer ratio is scary. There is so little music out there that listening to the same tune over and over would drive anyone insane. Maybe these buffs in the test center will help. But adding more music would help even more.
No more of this dance1, dance2, song1, song2 stuff. Change that to having twice as many distinct songs and dances to choose from, where flourish success is a factor of technique or healing skill and maybe some attributelike staminaand/or quickness.
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The next biggest problem with entertainers in general is the places where we can work. Medics get medical centers, camps, and surgical droids. We get cantinas. Yes we can heal mind damage in camps, but the camp ITSELF heals mind damage. And since when do professional entertainers go out on hunting missions where they slow down the rest of the party anyway? And then yes there are hotels, I thought I read once. But no one goes to those. And there's no way to advertise them as businesses to entice people to come in.
We should get a droid module that allows Battle Fatigue and Mindhealing when put into a droid or an instrument like the omnibox. IMO this would in no way be an exploit because the amount of time it would take to heal BF andMind damageis so long. That way players could maybe open up a cantina of their own so people don't have to run all the way back to town every time. Or they could be justified in asking for tips as a STREET PERFORMER if they can heal with their performance. That would add so much to the atmosphere of the game in general.
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That's pretty much it. If dancers weren't so clumsy, and if we could heal in more places that players could be encouraged to go...entertainer would be the best non-combat profession in the game.
JediJabroni wrote:
First and foremost... Whoever made these animaitons has not been to a dance club in 10 years. Their sole education is probably"Night at the Roxbury". And they certainly have never been to any kind of dance production or recital.
You'll get no argument from me, but I try to remember that this is supposed to be a "long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" so our own popular culture should not really be reflected in the game - in any way, including that horrid poplock dance
SWG Dancers are clumsy and goofy. I can't believe how often they mis-step and blow a flourish. Every now and then it's funny. ... "I fell on my butt". But after the third time in a half hour routine, it gets REALLY annoying.
Our correspondent has already listed falling as one of our top issues for the Devs. It galls me that the /dance emote that anyone can execute actually looks better than our lyrical.
Then I make Dance Techniques I so I can do the ROBOT? THE freakin ROBOT!?!?!?
I started a whole thread here on how I felt about this dance, and it quickly became apparent that Poplock is actually popular with most dancers - especially male dancers. Go figure.
This profession desparately needs more dances and better flourishes.
Check Ravenmist's "issues" threads at the top of the board - most of what you raise has already been submitted to the Devs, including this. We've been promised more dances, flourishes and outfits.
The next biggest problem with entertainers in general is the places where we can work. Medics get medical centers, camps, and surgical droids. We get cantinas. Yes we can heal mind damage in camps, but the camp ITSELF heals mind damage. And since when do professional entertainers go out on hunting missions where they slow down the rest of the party anyway? And then yes there are hotels, I thought I read once. But no one goes to those. And there's no way to advertise them as businesses to entice people to come in.
Don't confuse damage with wounds. Sitting still for long enough anywhere will regen your mind, however it takes an entertainer to heal mind wounds - and they can be healed in camps, hotels, cantinas, or PA halls.
Let's be careful when we talk about pulling dancers out of cantinas. The cantina is designed to be the social center of gravity in the game - including private cantinas. Forcing us to leave the cantina will undercut one of the very basic concepts of the game. Some of us (like myself) have voluntarily taken up combat skills to augment our dancing - and we didn't have to sacrifice any part of our entertainment ability to do it.
The problem with cantinas, though is that they are insanley overcrowded and badly lagged because of it.
I'm glad we're getting more. But healing in camps does not count in my eyes. How often does a professional entertainer go out on hunting trips. And if we can heal in PA halls, why can't we have a droid unit? Even if it can only go in a stationary thing like an omnibox or a piece of furniture so that it can only be used in buildings, I'm good with it.
No one would be forcing anyone to leave cantinas. It would give us more choices, though.
I didn't consider that the poplock is good for male dancers. Most of the dances look horrible for guys. So I retract this complaint. And getting more dances to choose from will help a lot, too.
My other gripe, and forgive me if this is in the issues thread already... dancers have no centerpoint to work around. You put yourself on formal and end up moving perpetually left or right. Rhythmic puts you all over the place.
If I could get anything out of voicing all this... it would be the droid module to allow entertainers to be as marketable as medics, in turn giving people more options than the overcrowded cantinas. I would think that perhaps a droid would heal less effectively than in a Cantina or Hotel. This way it is still more beneficial to perform there. But choice is always agood thing in RPGs.
Pretty much what Sinda said here.
Falling sucks, period, needs to be reduced a lot, need to pester our dev about this again.
Poplock is a pretty popular dance actually..
I don't see anything with reguards to having formal 2 moved out of Master Entertainer in the near or even distant future. Yes I know this is a pain but the devs want it that way I suppose. Could be worse tho, musicians have one of their best (best imo) songs there and an instrument type they can only get there thats probably the coolest instrument.
We have been promised more dances and flourishes (good ones, not the crap they put in last time) but this is going to take a good while. From a few hints i've picked up sounds like they may already be working on this.. guess we'll just have to wait.
I do agree that people get sick of Cantina's after a while. I know I sure as heck did. I now spend all my time performing in a PA hall which is sooo much better (nice Naboo PA hall, if you haven't seen Unity's PA hall on test you should really check it out, place is awesome) PA halls definitely provide a welcome change. Also with player cities PA cities will have their own cantina's (hopefully nicer then current standard ones you see) and Theaters I've heard. So there will be a few more options at least as long as you don't just stick around the NPC cities. (hoping the street performer things becomes possible with player cities too but its only a suggestion I've seen, never heard a dev comment on it, sure would be nice tho)
Thanks for the post and your thoughts tho, I like to hear what the people I represent have on their minds so don't be shy. Constructive posts are always a good thing. 
JediJabroni wrote:SWG Dancers are clumsy and goofy. I can't believe how often they mis-step and blow a flourish. Every now and then it's funny. ... "I fell on my butt". But after the third time in a half hour routine, it gets REALLY annoying.
You will get no argument from me. This is one of my largest annoyances in the game. One great feature of the Lyrical dance is that the "fall" appears to be a mis-step, and I haven't fallen down on that dance (as opposed to the rather spectacular wipe-outs in the formal dance).
Falling should be either taken out of the game entirely (since after all musicians don't hit sour notes), or at least linked to your skill, so that the higher the technique skill, the less often you fall.
JediJabroni wrote:Then I make Dance Techniques I so I can do the ROBOT? THE freakin ROBOT!?!?!?
Now now... this is Star Wars. It's not "The Robot", it's "The Droid." I used to hate this dance but it actually looks pretty good when you coordinate with other dancers, and it works really well with Rock. I've ended up doing it a lot lately. And no, my character is not male... :-)
In general (as usual) I pretty much agree with the rest of what Sinda and Ravenmist said above.
C
As for the dances, yes, most of them are hideous, but I actually enjoy poplock and I only wish they did it better. Poplock isn't just "The Robot", it's a style of dance called body-popping and used to be quite popular a couple decades ago. I was always a fan of body-popping and wanted to learn how to do it ever since I saw Footloose. One of the guys in the big dance scene at the end is a fairly good example of body-popping done well.
Yes, I am a guy. I know that would usually mean that I don't have a clue when it comes to dancing well, coupled with the fact that I am white (let's face it, most white guys have laughable dancing ability at best), but I go out dancing in clubs every week and usually receive multiple compliments on my dancing.
I am all in favor of more dances and better flourishes (or just more, in some cases). Also 4 levels of exotic? What gives? And where is the high-end dance that guys can do without looking ridiculous?
Yeah, the fall rate is just silly. If it happened once in a weekstime it might be acceptable. But sometimes a Master dancer can fall 4 even 5 times in a row.. That's just..silly..
Furthermore, a dancer should use less action, get less tired the better she is. I know this is all adressed already, but it makes me angry! 
C
JediJabroni wrote:
The next biggest problem with entertainers in general is the places where we can work. Medics get medical centers, camps, and surgical droids. We get cantinas. Yes we can heal mind damage in camps, but the camp ITSELF heals mind damage. And since when do professional entertainers go out on hunting missions where they slow down the rest of the party anyway? And then yes there are hotels, I thought I read once. But no one goes to those. And there's no way to advertise them as businesses to entice people to come in.
We should get a droid module that allows Battle Fatigue and Mindhealing when put into a droid or an instrument like the omnibox. IMO this would in no way be an exploit because the amount of time it would take to heal BF andMind damageis so long. That way players could maybe open up a cantina of their own so people don't have to run all the way back to town every time. Or they could be justified in asking for tips as a STREET PERFORMER if they can heal with their performance. That would add so much to the atmosphere of the game in general.
Just a quick point: dancers/musicians/entertainers can perform and heal BF/mind wounds in cantinas, hotels and theatres. The problem isn't that there aren't enough places available, it's that no one ever goes anywhere other than a cantina unless they have to. If you've been to Talus, I can't recall which town, but it's a starter town, anyway, there is no cantina. People come to the hotel instead, but since it's much less crowded a planet than say, Tatooine, it's never too bad.
So: if you want to play somewhere else: try some of the smaller towns, or more dangerous planets. Or, heck, advertise a show at your local theatre!
"No more of this dance1, dance2, song1, song2 stuff..."
Speaking of which, I'd like to see the dance and songnames replaced with names that are a little more original. When I perform a song, I feel really silly saying that it's 'Starwars2' or 'Folk'. Can't we be a little more creative? It really defeats all sense of Star Warsroleplaying when you're performing a song called 'Waltz'and people are dancing the Footloose Dance!??! I mean, are the developers Strauss fans who likeplaying 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon, or what?
When (if)the new music and the newdances arrive, are they going to be similarly unoriginal? Might we see 'Generic Disco', 'The Twist'or 'Flashdance' as dances and 'Cantina Band Song' and '80s Synthesizer'as music?
Let's do a little research and find some names for tunes and dances that fit better within the Star Wars universe. The canon has many song names - just look in the book'Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina' for ideas. As for dances, surely we can come up with something that doesn't make one think of 80s dance movies,and surely we can think of titles that don't scream 'This is a game based on a movie!'
What would be great is if we could put player cantinas/PA halls on the map and actually register there, like at a cantina. It might bring more business around to out of the way places.
Jedi,
While I agree that formal is probably the best of the entertainer dances, I would't get master entertainer just for formal2. Instead, suffer through the dancer knowledge skill tree to get lyrical. You get popular2 on the way which is very versitile and pretty decent (and you never fall after you get high enough). Lyrical has its problems (not enough flourishes and the basic step is poor), but it has some lovely parts as well.
Master gets lyrical2 also, which I like a lot.
Otherwise, I agree with all the issues you have raised about the dances themselves and especially the falling issue (one of the best things about lyrical is that the falls look good: like you planned them).
The healing issue doesn't bug me at all. Things are fine for me just the way they are. I suggest that you go on an occasional hunt to break up the monotony of the cantina.
For myself, I hunt with two other women and one guy. Three of us are dancers, the last is a medic. We have matching outfits, except that we each have our own trademark color. The guy gets a matching outfit too, but in black&white with an inverted pattern from us. We look great together and have a lot of fun. After a hunt, we return to the local cantina on one of the outer planets and dress in our coordinated formal wear (again, same but with trademark colors) and entertain everyone. It's a blast and gets a lot of attention from everyone.
Gwen